Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

Jinglejangle69

PeterPan92 wrote: »

At this point the unions are doing their job. They are fighting for what was promised and assured back in February and was a central crux in getting schools open. Whether or not their members vote on industrial action is a separate matter. The unions are fighting for an unfulfilled promise and that is what I'm paying them for. I don't know if I'll vote for or against yet, but I'm glad they are doing something considering I pay them every 2 weeks.
For everyone going on about the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers, etc., these were also all promised priority vaccinations initially. However, the INTO, ASTI and TUI are hardly going to fight for Mary working in Tesco when Mary doesn't pay them. They are going to fight for the teachers who do pay them (and pay them a pretty penny, I might add!). The unions for the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers etc. need to do better by their members also.
The unions are not demanding immediate vaccination either. They are looking for teachers to be moved from group 10 to group 9. Group 9 is for those working in crowded settings. I have 27 kids in my class, and have one of the smaller classes in the school. Some of the classes have 30+ children. Would you say these classrooms are not a crowded setting?

Meat factories along with bakeries, actually any food production factories are the same, they work in crowded settings and produce the food you eat to live.

What's more essential?

Noone is calling for them to be vaccinated before more vulnerable people because its common sense they shouldn't.

PeterPan92

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Meat factories along with bakeries, actually any food productuin factories are the same, they work. In crowded settings and prodiheyhe food you eat to live.

What's more essential?

Noone is calling for them to be vaccinated before more vulnerable people because its common sense they shouldn't.

Did you read what I said? The unions don't want teachers to be vaccinated before vulnerable people. They want us moved to group 9, for crowded settings. That's it.

Jinglejangle69

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Did you read what I said? The unions don't want teachers to be vaccinated before vulnerable people. They want us moved to group 9, for crowded settings. That's it.

Sorry is group 9 still a thing?

Now I'm confused.

CruelSummer

jusvi2001 wrote: »

No wonder why teachers are loosing public support

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/independentie-poll-results-revealed-majority-supportvaccine-prioritisation-for-gardai-but-not-teachers-40285891.html

I’m sick to the teeth of the teacher bashing that has gone during this pandemic. Most teachers have worked really hard to support children remotely and while at school in very difficult circumstances. They’ve put themselves on the line to help keep the show on the road with useless facilities that are overcrowded and are lacking in resources. A litany of ever growing social problems walk into the classrooms each day, coupled with many children highly anxious by the Covid situation. They’re expected to ‘sort it out’ - whatever that means.
Meanwhile they’re continually bashed and ridiculed online while they’re teaching & cannot respond as they’re juggling everything and shown zero respect by some.

I don’t care where I am in the vaccine roll out, I think age is fair. However the ridicule of the public towards teachers asking for vaccination prioritisation, something that has been done in many western countries including the US really bugs me.

Between how far behind the children now are educationally, socially & emotionally and the continuing disrespect shown towards teachers in the media, I expect some more militant views to emerge in a push back, with many teachers with no strong views on many of these issues caught in the crossfire trying to do their jobs. And they won’t care re public support when said public continually disrespects them - it’ll help their cause.

shtpEdthePlum

I made a conscious decision to leave the teaching profession just as the pandemic started.

It was partly because i wanted a change of career, i had done it straight out of college and wanted to try new things. A big opportunity came up so i jumped at the chance.

Mostly it was because a huge majority of people in this country (including some among my friends and family) absolutely shat all over the profession. It's hard to do a demanding job if people personally resent you because of it.

Anyway good luck to the poor children currently growing up with fewer and fewer capable, experienced educators. This is genuinely how dictators prevail, they turn the public against the education system, defund it as a populist maneuver and the resulting population is left easy to manipulate.

Brendan Bendar

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I made a conscious decision to leave the teaching profession just as the pandemic started.

It was partly because i wanted a change of career, i had done it straight out of college and wanted to try new things. A big opportunity came up so i jumped at the chance.

Mostly it was because a huge majority of people in this country (including some among my friends and family) absolutely shat all over the profession. It's hard to do a demanding job if people personally resent you because of it.

Anyway good luck to the poor children currently growing up with fewer and fewer capable, experienced educators. This is genuinely how dictators prevail, they turn the public against the education system, defund it as a populist maneuver and the resulting population is left easy to manipulate.

You have some good points there but in my opinion you seem to show your true colors with your last paragraph which indicates to me anyway a fairly large chip on your shoulder.

I mean talking about “dictators” “public against the education system” and “ population left easy to manipulate”

A lot of very weird thinking and attitude going on there, one would surmise.

Not suited for teaching would seem to be fairly obvious.

Good luck in your new career

Hellrazer

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Did you read what I said? The unions don't want teachers to be vaccinated before vulnerable people. They want us moved to group 9, for crowded settings. That's it.

Cohort 9 is for 64 years and younger and 16-64 working in crowded settings "in parrallel" so basically the cohort for everyone outside of HCW,Elderly,Underlying conditions - the same cohort everyone else is in - Im ok with that.

They can have their cohort 9.

noplacehere

Honestly the motion wasn’t ideal for second level in particular. We cannot get vaccinated before the holidays realistically as we were not and are not looking to be prioritised over the most at risk cohorts.

However it would make sense to twin track teachers to get pfizer or moderna or J&J. I’m cohort 4 and just got AstraZeneca. I don’t get my second dose until the end of June and am not considered vaccinated until the second week of July. If teachers end up getting AstraZeneca in a June they won’t actually be considered vaccinated even by the return to school.

I think this would have been practical and should have been achievable.

On the ‘what about’ no teacher is saying that guards, supermarket workers, creche workers, SNAs etc shouldn’t be prioritised. But this is a teaching union. For teachers. I have no idea wtf everyone is going on ‘what about’ rants for all over social media. Get onto your union and get your motions together ffs

jusvi2001

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Meat factories along with bakeries, actually any food production factories are the same, they work in crowded settings and produce the food you eat to live.

What's more essential?

Noone is calling for them to be vaccinated before more vulnerable people because its common sense they shouldn't.

Problem is that teachers are thinking they are at higher risk when there are other sectors in society who are essential and are at more risk of getting Covid. Every time there is a talk for school opening they want to shut it down. Hope there is a way to know how many teachers got Covid from school so far. Age based vaccination is fair and based on science. Teachers are not realizing that they are loosing respect and support slowly.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/independentie-poll-results-revealed-majority-supportvaccine-prioritisation-for-gardai-but-not-teachers-40285891.html

PeterPan92

jusvi2001 wrote: »

Problem is that teachers are thinking they are at higher risk when there are other sectors in society who are essential and are at more risk of getting Covid. Every time there is a talk for school opening they want to shut it down. Hope there is a way to know how many teachers got Covid from school so far. Age based vaccination is fair and based on science. Teachers are not realizing that they are loosing respect and support slowly.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/independentie-poll-results-revealed-majority-supportvaccine-prioritisation-for-gardai-but-not-teachers-40285891.html

"Teachers" have had exactly zero say in anything so far. Teacher unions have, with exactly zero input from teachers as of yet. If they do ballot on strike action, then (and only then) will actual teacher voices be heard.

wirelessdude01

Be interesting to see the uptake from school staff when it comes to July provision and the like this year. Know that the supplementary programme had very poor uptake.

Hellrazer

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’m sick to the teeth of the teacher bashing that has gone during this pandemic. Most teachers have worked really hard to support children remotely and while at school in very difficult circumstances. They’ve put themselves on the line to help keep the show on the road with useless facilities that are overcrowded and are lacking in resources. A litany of ever growing social problems walk into the classrooms each day, coupled with many children highly anxious by the Covid situation. They’re expected to ‘sort it out’ - whatever that means.
Meanwhile they’re continually bashed and ridiculed online while they’re teaching & cannot respond as they’re juggling everything and shown zero respect by some.

Im posting this not as an attempt to antagonise or bait anyone but as a discussion. Last time I tried to give an opinion there was a **** show and Im not trying to do that here. I do sincerely apologise for my posts in that previous thread.

The teacher criticism you refer to is in my opinion warranted in some instances. Im not saying all teachers deserve it but there are some downright lazy teachers that I have first hand experience with.

I have 3 in secondary school - 1st ,2nd and 6th year.

My 2 younger ones are lucky if they get one or two classes a day and thats since December.

My LC has gotten very little aswell being a 6th year student - maybe 2 classes a day. One teacher has actually told them that " he wasnt bothering as they should be able to study themselves at their age" - Thats a direct quote and I have that one on video. He then logged off and hasnt been seen since.

In saying that the ones that have carried on with classes have in my opinion done an excellent job that has been tarred by supposed the lazy ones.

The other issue that makes people supposedly bash teachers is that any time their is criticism that automatically becomes "teacher bashing" when really the teachers should ignore it and just get on with things.

Since December we have made our 3 stick with the school timetable - getting up as normal, if they have no classes then they continue with something else etc so in effect we have become the "teachers" and I think that is also grating on people.

And then when its reported in the media that teachers want to "skip the queue" so to speak it annoys the public further.

The teachers that have continued to try keep things going should be applauded but the ones that have done nothing should be dismissed.

Again - please dont take this post as an attempt to stir things up - Im just giving an alternative opinion and some of you may or may not like it.

Brendan Bendar

Measured post there.

Very fair minded

killbillvol2

blanch152 wrote: »

This is common enough in schools and the wider public sector. One of the benefits of union membership is the cheap income continuance plans whereby if you get seriously ill, they will pay out on top of the sick pay your employer gives you. Many people run in fear of the union as a result.

The teacher unions use this to intimidate principals and deputy principals who are members of the union and fear being left unprotected.

I well remember the day the union boss came to the school to threaten me that if I didn't toe the line he'd stop my income continuance plan from Irish Life by putting a horse's head in the bed of someone who worked in Irish Life.

Stewie Griffin

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I well remember the day the union boss came to the school to threaten me that if I didn't toe the line he'd stop my income continuance plan from Irish Life by putting a horse's head in the bed of someone who worked in Irish Life.

The ASTI ate my hamster!

wirelessdude01

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

The ASTI ate my hamster!

God damn secondary teachers that can afford a hamster. Must put it into hamster daycare when when you go on holidays for 3 months over the summer!!

killbillvol2

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

The ASTI ate my hamster!

You were lucky. We ate our own hamsters on the picket lines in '86.

Icyseanfitz

Have they changed their mind on pregnant staff as well at this stage?

SusanC10

Got Email from the Primary School with Covid Questionnaire this morning.
Just curious - are there any consequences/penalties for not being truthful with the answers ? (Not talking about myself!)

lulublue22

SusanC10 wrote: »

Got Email from the Primary School with Covid Questionnaire this morning.
Just curious - are there any consequences/penalties for not being truthful with the answers ? (Not talking about myself!)

No - just hoping people will be honest and do the right thing if necessary.

JDD

As I understand it, there are 10 cohorts? 1-8 are the elderly and vulnerable, Cohort 9 is those who work or live in crowded settings (they'll be done in age order) and Cohort 10 is anyone aged 18-64 who is left over.

Am I right?

And is the argument that teachers aren't being considered as part of Cohort 9 and have just been lumped in with Cohort 10?

How would they possibly say that teachers don't work in crowded settings? I get it with saying that Gardai don't, or Fire fighters or ambulance drivers, but surely it's plain that teachers work in crowded settings, same as factory workers or people who live in hostels or who work/live in care homes?

Hellrazer

JDD wrote: »

As I understand it, there are 10 cohorts? 1-8 are the elderly and vulnerable, Cohort 9 is those who work or live in crowded settings (they'll be done in age order) and Cohort 10 is anyone aged 18-64 who is left over.

Am I right?

And is the argument that teachers aren't being considered as part of Cohort 9 and have just been lumped in with Cohort 10?

How would they possibly say that teachers don't work in crowded settings? I get it with saying that Gardai don't, or Fire fighters or ambulance drivers, but surely it's plain that teachers work in crowded settings, same as factory workers or people who live in hostels or who work/live in care homes?

Theres no cohort 10 - 9 is 18-64 and those working in crowded settings but they are running side by side.

lulublue22

JDD wrote: »

As I understand it, there are 10 cohorts? 1-8 are the elderly and vulnerable, Cohort 9 is those who work or live in crowded settings (they'll be done in age order) and Cohort 10 is anyone aged 18-64 who is left over.

Am I right?

And is the argument that teachers aren't being considered as part of Cohort 9 and have just been lumped in with Cohort 10?

How would they possibly say that teachers don't work in crowded settings? I get it with saying that Gardai don't, or Fire fighters or ambulance drivers, but surely it's plain that teachers work in crowded settings, same as factory workers or people who live in hostels or who work/live in care homes?

That is my understanding of the situation ( though I do think gardai should be vacc sooner) The unions are looking for teachers to be included in a twin track vacc system in cohort 9 . However a public perception now seems to be teachers are looking to knock the elderly and vulnerable down the list which is not true at all.,

JDD

Hellrazer wrote: »

Theres no cohort 10 - 9 is 18-64 and those working in crowded settings but they are running side by side.

So how does "in parallel" work?

Say there are 3 million 18-64 year olds that fall outside Cohorts 1-8. Of those, 100,000 are deemed to work in crowded settings. So if the 60-64 year olds get their appointments first, do the crowded setting cohort get them at the same time? If that is the case, the crowded setting cohort would be finished fairly quickly, and well in advance of say the general 18-50 population.

Is the issue that teachers are not deemed to be working in crowded settings?

Hellrazer

JDD wrote: »

So how does "in parallel" work?

It has me baffled aswell. What I think it means is basically get stuffed all 18-64 year old are being treated the same.

JDD

Hellrazer wrote: »

It has me baffled aswell. What I think it means is basically get stuffed all 18-64 year old are being treated the same.

So you think it's just optics? That actually if you are aged 55-60 and working in a crowded setting, you won't get your first jab until every 60-64 year old in the country has been offered a vaccine? I dunno. I mean, I don't trust the government not to try an put a spin on things, but that isn't spin, that's out and out lying. Either you're in with everyone else or your not, and I can't see why they would even mention those in crowded settings if they were not getting some form of priority.

I would be asking for some crystal clear clarity from your union before considering what way to vote in any ballot.

Hellrazer

https://www.irishexaminer.com/cms_media/module_img/4786/2393036_7_articleinline_Screenshot_2021-03-31_at_10.33.46.jpg

Thats the cohort list - see number 9.

No difference in crowded settings or 18-64.

CruelSummer

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im posting this not as an attempt to antagonise or bait anyone but as a discussion. Last time I tried to give an opinion there was a **** show and Im not trying to do that here. I do sincerely apologise for my posts in that previous thread.

The teacher criticism you refer to is in my opinion warranted in some instances. Im not saying all teachers deserve it but there are some downright lazy teachers that I have first hand experience with.

I have 3 in secondary school - 1st ,2nd and 6th year.

My 2 younger ones are lucky if they get one or two classes a day and thats since December.

My LC has gotten very little aswell being a 6th year student - maybe 2 classes a day. One teacher has actually told them that " he wasnt bothering as they should be able to study themselves at their age" - Thats a direct quote and I have that one on video. He then logged off and hasnt been seen since.

In saying that the ones that have carried on with classes have in my opinion done an excellent job that has been tarred by supposed the lazy ones.

The other issue that makes people supposedly bash teachers is that any time their is criticism that automatically becomes "teacher bashing" when really the teachers should ignore it and just get on with things.

Since December we have made our 3 stick with the school timetable - getting up as normal, if they have no classes then they continue with something else etc so in effect we have become the "teachers" and I think that is also grating on people.

And then when its reported in the media that teachers want to "skip the queue" so to speak it annoys the public further.

The teachers that have continued to try keep things going should be applauded but the ones that have done nothing should be dismissed.

Again - please dont take this post as an attempt to stir things up - Im just giving an alternative opinion and some of you may or may not like it.

The points you’ve made there are all fair enough, thanks. If you’ve genuine concerns re the level of teaching support you got while schools were closed - I suggest you should take it up with the teacher / principal. Signing off isn’t what was required & should definitely be followed up on, considering everyone else was working day and night for all of the latest lockdown. There were guidelines issued from the Department and while purposely vague to allow teachers adapt between pre recorded videos, live videos, online apps - ‘signing off’ wasn’t listed as an option.
The media have also played a role - Fran McNulty and others on Prime Time in January suggesting teachers just couldn’t be bothered going in when cases were at 8,000 a day was sickening. As if schools wouldn’t contribute to spread with rates that high & teachers / schools then held accountable once again by Joe public.
Most teachers I know worked very hard during lockdown - but struggled to get feedback / work uploaded from parents/pupils as time went on.

There seems to be an acceptance in Ireland that teachers are fair game to be ridiculed, criticised and their profession belittled. The media & government have only fuelled this since Christmas in particular. It will be hard to maintain the best educators in the profession if this is the kind of abuse that they’ll have to put up with on top of all of the other challenges on a daily basis in the classroom. At the end of the day, most teachers are just trying to protect the children as much as possible during this time & help them continue with their education and development as best they can.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Is S&S back up and running next week?

km79

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Is S&S back up and running next week?

Yes