New Intel Chips (i9-11900K)

TheValeyard

Apologies is a thread already exists on this. I could not find it.

I'm disappointed by this. I think Intel has really dropped the ball with these chips. Will see what happens in the autumn.

What does anyone else think?

May go down the Ryzen 9 5950X if I can magic one up.

Inquitus

TheValeyard wrote: »

Apologies is a thread already exists on this. I could not find it.

I'm disappointed by this. I think Intel has really dropped the ball with these chips. Will see what happens in the autumn.

What does anyone else think?

May go down the Ryzen 9 5950X if I can magic one up.

The only way these sell well is if AMD supply is constrained and these are plentiful, if you could actually buy either AMD would be the pick 99 times out of 100!

Squidgy Black

TheValeyard wrote: »

Apologies is a thread already exists on this. I could not find it.

I'm disappointed by this. I think Intel has really dropped the ball with these chips. Will see what happens in the autumn.

What does anyone else think?

May go down the Ryzen 9 5950X if I can magic one up.

Seen the LTT video on it, was running neck and neck with the 5800x in a lot of scenarios, but with higher temps and a lot higher power consumption. The 5900X looks to beat it in almost all scenarios for a similar price.

Can't see many people objectively choosing Intel over AMD unless they're just choosing because of the brand.

ZeitgeistGlee

Seems the 11600K is the best of the bunch and even then the caveat was the 10th series is cheaper for only marginally less performance and AMD is better if you can get your hands for it near MSRP, do any kind of production work or just don't like how power intensive the Intel chips are.

B560/Intel 10th Gen seems like it'll become the go-to budget recommendation.

Calibos

Imagine waiting for Rocketlake and deciding to buy a GPU along with it only to find its a waste of sand as Gamers Nexus said and now its impossible to get a GPU for MSRP and you should have got on a list last October.

FML!!

That said, I'm about to order a pre-built just to get my hands on a 3000 series GPU and have lubricated my rear end to pay the €500 premium over MSRP for a 3090 just so I don't have to wait another 6 months for a 3080 or 3080TI. CPU will be an 11600K as I don't need 'MOAR CORES!!' really.

However, once Zen4 arrives I'll swap out that 11600K/Z590 from the 3090 machine into a Media Server/Steam-Link server with a hopefully MSRP 3060TI/3070. Until then, that server will be media only and running on my brothers cast off 2500K/Z67.

Cuddlesworth

Seems like the 5 series parts from AMD are nearing market saturation(apart from the 5950) so I doubt Intel will have the price advantage for much longer.

BuCkoTroN

I still want one

Anyone know where one can be purchased?

Calibos

I already changed my order from last night from a 11600K to a Ryzen 7 5800x. LOL.

The Ryzen options weren’t greyed out like some of the not in stock 11 series options last night, so I rang, cancelled and re-ordered.

Only later did I realise that last nights order was on my PC but todays website checking was on iPAD....and nothing was greyed out and theres no way everything came into stock overnight. It was probably just a HTML formatting difference on the 2 devices. In other words the 5800x I thought was in stock this morning and I cancelled my 11600k order for, probably isnt in stock at all.

Feck it though. I’ll stick with the 5800x and I suppose if the poster above is right and Zen 3 supply is nearing demand, then its still likely to be the 3090 that delays the order rather than the 5800x.

Squidgy Black

Calibos wrote: »

I already changed my order from last night from a 11600K to a Ryzen 7 5800x. LOL.

The Ryzen options weren’t greyed out like some of the not in stock 11 series options last night, so I rang, cancelled and re-ordered.

Only later did I realise that last nights order was on my PC but todays website checking was on iPAD....and nothing was greyed out and theres no way everything came into stock overnight. It was probably just a HTML formatting difference on the 2 devices. In other words the 5800x I thought was in stock this morning and I cancelled my 11600k order for, probably isnt in stock at all.

Feck it though. I’ll stick with the 5800x and I suppose if the poster above is right and Zen 3 supply is nearing demand, then its still likely to be the 3090 that delays the order rather than the 5800x.

5800x has been pretty widely available on the AMD site and Amazon for the past few weeks so you should be fine, it's usually the 5900 and the 5950 that are low in stock

Samuel T. Cogley

5800X is the red headed step child.

K.O.Kiki

BuCkoTroN wrote: »

I still want one

Anyone know where one can be purchased?

Why?

Core i9-10850K / 10900K is a better buy if you want high-end; and the 10600K/11600K are better buys for gaming.

ZeitgeistGlee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYdHTSQxdCM

Assuming the F version gets another 20-30 quid knocked off it like the 10th gen version this will likely be a great little gaming CPU paired up with a H570/B560 motherboard.

Seems a bit silly of AMD to have abandoned this price point.

BloodBath

AMD still have to roll out the cheaper non x versions which will come soon I'd imagine.

Intel are dead in the water until they can get TSMC to make chips for them. The problem is everyone want's TSMC.

Hopefully they ramp up fab production. They are on track for 5nm by the end of this year as well with apple switching to that first which should free up a good bit of 7nm production for others.

Still impressive that intel can pretty much match the 5800x performance core for core at 14nm compared to 7nm even at the cost of much higher power consumption and price. Their 7nm chips should be good but amd will be going to 5nm not long after so I don't know if it will help them for long.

I'd imagine AMD will switch to 10 core ccx designs at 5nm. A 5nm 10 core single ccx 6800x with DDR5 and PCIe5 should be sweet. 20 core 6950x for production heads.

AlmightyCushion

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYdHTSQxdCM

Assuming the F version gets another 20-30 quid knocked off it like the 10th gen version this will likely be a great little gaming CPU paired up with a H570/B560 motherboard.

Seems a bit silly of AMD to have abandoned this price point.

Don't AMD have the 3600 at that price point. It was out of stock for a while but seems like stock is ok now.

minitrue

BloodBath wrote: »

They are on track for 5nm by the end of this year as well with apple switching to that first which should free up a good bit of 7nm production for others.

Apple are already on the TSMC 5nm with their A14 (and M1). The A14 is 88mm^2 with 11.8b transistors Vs the A13 being 98mm^2 with 8.5 so it does look like a significant bump!


So the Apple move already happened with no appreciable impact for 7nm supply (I'd say mostly thanks to consoles and AMD cpu+gpu) and I think the trumour was that Apple had a 5nm exclusive (booked out) for a year so we probably shouldn't expect anyone else to appear with a 5nm chip until September or so.

BloodBath

Didn't know that but it's probably very limited supply atm for premium products only.

It takes years to ramp up a new node but TSMC are killing it.

They are ahead of schedule while others are struggling to shrink further.

Samuel T. Cogley

I think TSMC have access to alien / future technology.

BloodBath

Starting to look like it.

Good news for Moore's law. Bad news for consumers if they are the only company who can shrink down that small.

They need competition.

SeanW

BuCkoTroN wrote: »

I still want one

Anyone know where one can be purchased?

Well, Steve over at GamersNexus delivered an absolutely brutal takedown of this particular processor, I have it on my YouTube favourites because the takedown is just so epic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxiuvQPL_qs

Bottom line: Not only is this thing worse in every imaginable respect than mid-range AMD products, but it's also worse in every imaginable respect than Intels previous gen 10900K. If you actually want one for some bizarre reason, you shouldn't expect to have any difficulty finding them - assuming that retailers take the chance on buying a tray of 1000 in a minimum order.

BloodBath

Yet intel's shares are somehow still riding high. I don't get it.

Calibos

SeanW wrote: »

Well, Steve over at GamersNexus delivered an absolutely brutal takedown of this particular processor, I have it on my YouTube favourites because the takedown is just so epic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxiuvQPL_qs

Bottom line: Not only is this thing worse in every imaginable respect than mid-range AMD products, but it's also worse in every imaginable respect than Intels previous gen 10900K. If you actually want one for some bizarre reason, you shouldn't expect to have any difficulty finding them - assuming that retailers take the chance on buying a tray of 1000 in a minimum order.

I thought he was still wanting a 5800x and everyone was telling him NO, which was making me second guess my 5800x choice for my new PC. He was actually talking about still wanting an 11900K?

minitrue

BloodBath wrote: »

Yet intel's shares are somehow still riding high. I don't get it.

Intel haven't had stock issues and have been able to just keep on rocking selling their chips (and I'm fairly sure they still have the majority of the market though it might be quite a slim one in the most recent figures). On top of that the 11400 seems to generally best the 3600 while the 11600k gives the 5600x a run for it's money, both require you to ignore power efficiency but also come in cheaper.

The i9-11900k and i7-11700k (to a slightly lesser extent) both look like crap at current prices but will likely still sell in not disgraceful numbers (but if you view things another way any non-trivial number is disgraceful) due to the combination of:
a) people who were burned by AMD in the past (Intel's woes have been spectre et al meaning decreasing performance rather than AMD's legacy of sometimes questionable reliability)
b) people who are just Intel fans (probably mostly people who also fall into another category)
c) people who actually need Intel features (AVX-512 or Quicksync might be all they have now?)
d) businesses who deem AMD a "risky" choice
e) people who lean heavily on applications where Intel somehow still have a lead

I've a use case personally that effectively locks me into quicksync but thankfully it's otherwise got low cpu requirements so even an 11400 is overkill :-D Though if I could find a z590 board like the Asus Pro WS X570-ACE (e.g. one that could take 3 pci-e 8x cards with at least one at pci-e 4.0) I could be convinced to step up to the i7 :-o I think in theory a TR or Epyc might allow me to ditch quicksync but I don't have the funds to burn on getting one to see how that would work out in practice and honestly it would be nuts (though it would make the pci-e slot issue go away).

For the near future the question is if Intel can get node parity with AMD from TSMC. If they can I think they will likely manage to ride things out until they can bring up their own 7nm (?2023? lol, we'll see) which is likely to match or better TSMCs 5nm. If they can't and TSMC will only give them 7nm while moving AMD on to 5nm then things might get more hectic for them ... but ...

The elephant in the room is the focus the pandemic silicon issues have placed on supply lines. The USA and EU both appear to be willing to throw money on getting sufficient fab capacity in their own jurisdictions which I suspect means the USA will bankroll Intel and it's not impossible the EU will also throw money at them to expand their European footprint (which could work out as them guaranteeing a continued long term expansion of their presence here, likely coupled with some kind of guarantees on them continuing to take third-party fabrication work).

ZeitgeistGlee

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Don't AMD have the 3600 at that price point. It was out of stock for a while but seems like stock is ok now.

They do but in terms of pure gaming, which is what most people will be looking at those 3 chips for, Intel seems to be the better performer, particularly in the case of the 11400. Intel finally bringing memory OCing to the B and H series motherboards (if the 6000/7000 AMD chips dominate we might even see CPU OCing too one day) is a fairly substantial boon for consumers too.

Likewise the 3600 has crept back up towards launch price as well from the £150-£160 it had settled at before Covid, ideally AMD would want to force the 3600 to £150 or below permanently and reposition the X/XT models relative to their performance (IIRC it's like 5-10% more) instead of the ludicrous £225+ you see them hover around.

With that said AMD still have the main advantage of CPU OCing available on all their boards and the compatibility across the AM4 platform.

Coyler

Not saying OCing isn't a factor nor is board compatibility isn't a selling point but most people in the sub €200 CPU market generally don't worry about those things. They usually just get the what's the best bang for their buck at the time and only upgrade if needed. An awful lot of people still sport 4 core i5s, myself being one of them. That said if I was advising somebody on a budget build today, a i5-10400F and a B560 board makes a lot of sense to me. This gives a lot of scope to upgrade to a 11600 in the future, just like going from a 3600 to a 5600x. Well, close enough to anyone thinking of 1440p gaming.

What I'm saying is AMD seriously need to force down the price of the older CPUs. Shouldn't be giving a sucker a even break here.

AlmightyCushion

Coyler wrote: »

Not saying OCing isn't a factor nor is board compatibility isn't a selling point but most people in the sub €200 CPU market generally don't worry about those things. They usually just get the what's the best bang for their buck at the time and only upgrade if needed. An awful lot of people still sport 4 core i5s, myself being one of them. That said if I was advising somebody on a budget build today, a i5-10400F and a B560 board makes a lot of sense to me. This gives a lot of scope to upgrade to a 11600 in the future, just like going from a 3600 to a 5600x. Well, close enough to anyone thinking of 1440p gaming.

What I'm saying is AMD seriously need to force down the price of the older CPUs. Shouldn't be giving a sucker a even break here.

The 3600 is £150 on Amazon at the moment. I think that's a good price for it. £180+ is just too much. Pity there are no GPUs about at decent prices so no point in me building a new PC.

ZeitgeistGlee

Coyler wrote: »

That said if I was advising somebody on a budget build today, a i5-10400F and a B560 board makes a lot of sense to me. This gives a lot of scope to upgrade to a 11600 in the future, just like going from a 3600 to a 5600x. Well, close enough to anyone thinking of 1440p gaming.

I think if you're building with upgradability in mind AMD by far the more compelling option. With the new roadmap referring to Warhol (Ryzen 6000) as Zen 3+ it'll likely mean a decent performance uplift again and compatibility with existing 5XX series motherboards. Intel just doesn't have a comparable upgrade path to that right now.

TheValeyard

If I cant get the 5900 or 5950 I'd be tempted with the i9-10900k. I know it's older, but seems better value.

Calibos

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

I think if you're building with upgradability in mind AMD by far the more compelling option. With the new roadmap referring to Warhol (Ryzen 6000) as Zen 3+ it'll likely mean a decent performance uplift again and compatibility with existing 5XX series motherboards. Intel just doesn't have a comparable upgrade path to that right now.

Oh, wow! I thought I was at a dead end wrt IPC and platform whether I picked a Z490/Z590 10/11 series Intel or what I eventually picked for my new PC which is a 5800x on an X570.

I womder then should I downgrade my order to 6 core Zen 3 to save a few quid than swap it out for a Zen3+ whenever they launch?

AlmightyCushion

I wouldn't bet on 6000 series working on existing motherboards. Rumours are they are using DDR5 and will be a whole new socket.

Simi

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I wouldn't bet on 6000 series working on existing motherboards. Rumours are they are using DDR5 and will be a whole new socket.

It's very un-amd like to abandon a platform after one (technically two) series of processor. But if Intel are switching to DDR5 later this year then you're probably right, AMD will have to follow suit.

AlmightyCushion

Simi wrote: »

It's very un-amd like to abandon a platform after one (technically two) series of processor. But if Intel are switching to DDR5 later this year then you're probably right, AMD will have to follow suit.

AM4 was launched 4 years ago and AMD said they would use it until 2020. It has been used since the first Zen processors came out so it has supported 4 series of processors not 1 or 2.