Belfast Disturbances

Shelga

J Mysterio wrote: »

This is a pretty good summation from Patrick Kielty in Sept. 2018.

https://twitter.com/PatricKielty/status/1045782711816708096?s=20

I always think it's interesting to compare the conciliatory, forward-looking attitude of Patrick Kielty, whose father was actually murdered by loyalist paramilitaries in 1988, and who still supported the GFA, despite it meaning his father's murderers walking free, with that of Arlene Foster, whose father was shot by the IRA when she was young but lived for another 32 years.

dontmindme

There will be no peace on this island until the wholesale massacre and displacement of the Irish people to facilitate the Ulster Plantation is recognised and acknowledged for the egregious trauma that it was.
Global attention should be brought upon the Ulster (Loyalist)Plantationist culture of triumphalism and hate which is directed at the very victims of this past atrocity.

It's now hundreds of years later and the tree that was planted continues to bear fruit.

Seth Brundle

dontmindme wrote: »

There will be no peace on this island until the wholesale massacre and displacement of the Irish people to facilitate the Ulster Plantation is recognised and acknowledged for the egregious trauma that it was.
Global attention should be brought upon the Ulster (Loyalist)Plantationist culture of triumphalism and hate which is directed at the very victims of this past atrocity.

It's now hundreds of years later and the tree that was planted continues to bear fruit.

Yeah, good luck with that. :rolleyes:
The GFA is the best way forwards and contains none of the vindictiveness you seek.

FrancieBrady

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Yeah, good luck with that. :rolleyes:
The GFA is the best way forwards and contains none of the vindictiveness you seek.

It would be brilliant to see Mike Nesbitt stick to his request that all in the Assembly/Executive re-commit to the GFA and for the DUP, who are now trying to use the GFA to their benefit to actually officially commit to it. Something they have never done.

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It would be brilliant to see Mike Nesbitt stick to his request that all in the Assembly/Executive re-commit to the GFA and for the DUP, who are now trying to use the GFA to their benefit to actually officially commit to it. Something they have never done.

Itbwould show that the politicians are reflecting the views of the electorate i.e. most people in NI, and not a small minority of knuckle draggers.

joseywhales

The only positive I see from this, is that the PSNI are actually policing them and putting themselves at risk. Fair play to the officers.

Granadino

dontmindme wrote: »

There will be no peace on this island until the wholesale massacre and displacement of the Irish people to facilitate the Ulster Plantation is recognised and acknowledged for the egregious trauma that it was.
Global attention should be brought upon the Ulster (Loyalist)Plantationist culture of triumphalism and hate which is directed at the very victims of this past atrocity.

It's now hundreds of years later and the tree that was planted continues to bear fruit.

Why should we, a tiny island, and a small corner of it, get global attention? :rolleyes: It'll never happen. It's not even news in Spain. I've been watching the last few days and not a word.

dontmindme

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Yeah, good luck with that. :rolleyes:
The GFA is the best way forwards and contains none of the vindictiveness you seek.

If you bothered to actually read what I wrote rather than getting up on your high horse, I requested "recognition and acknowledgement".

:rolleyes:

dontmindme

Granadino wrote: »

Why should we, a tiny island, and a small corner of it, get global attention? :rolleyes: It'll never happen. It's not even news in Spain. I've been watching the last few days and not a word.

I'm not talking about the current 'troubles'.
FFS where's the wokerati when you need them, I thought they had an interest in righting historical injustices.

Floppybits

dontmindme wrote: »

I'm not talking about the current 'troubles'.
FFS where's the wokerati when you need them, I thought they had an interest in righting historical injustices.

Ah that's just selective historical injustices.

Penfailed

malinheader wrote: »

When I see the plastic bullets being used It might bear some resemblance to the way one side were treated

'Were' being the operative word. It doesn't happen anymore.

Penfailed

downcow wrote: »

Where did she say she wouldn’t meet psni leader. That’s Nolan nonsense

It's not nonsense.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260371.html%3ftype=amp

Penfailed

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Civil war would be a stretch. Population wise unionists just wouldn't have the ability to mount much of an offence.

The IRA had half the north's population and all of the republics backing them and a big juicy American teat to feed off as well.

A more apt comparison would be Cornwall mounting an armed struggle for independence from England.

No, they didn't. Nationalists didn't (and possibly still don't) make up half the north's population. Even if they did, the IRA didn't have anywhere near the support of all of them.

BluePlanet

One issue i have with the GFA is that it should have said that a referendum on the constitutional status of NI should be called when a majority in the RoI and in the UK as a whole desire it and not just RoI and NI.
Letting NI have their own say is basically awarding Unionists a veto and a hold over the rest of the UK.

Let's face it, if it were up to the UK as a whole, they'd be rid of the sickly place pronto!

malinheader

Penfailed wrote: »

'Were' being the operative word. It doesn't happen anymore.

I wonder if it was a different section of the community causing the trouble would the operative words be "used again "

Penfailed

downcow wrote: »

If my memory serves me correctly she stayed for several years after gfa and assisted with its implementation. Donaldson left the day it was signed and that was over release of terrorists

Your memory serves you incorrectly. Donaldson and Foster both left the same day.

Just saw 55 cops have been injured so far. Haven't heard of many rioters being injured. I wonder which Scottish soccer team they support.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Your memory serves you incorrectly. Donaldson and Foster both left the same day.

Yeah.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/jan/05/northernireland.devolution

An Claidheamh

steddyeddy wrote: »

Absolutely amazing that you can hold this sort of double thinking. Unionists are at pains to say that Brexit has nothing to do with Ireland while simultaneously blaming Ireland for the consequences of Brexit.

Pretty much their and Britain's policy during the Troubles, before and after

Bobeagleburger

Is anyone surprised? They riot most years during July. Be glad they are part of NI and not one of us. You'll never change the mindset of that cohort.

PokeHerKing

Penfailed wrote: »

No, they didn't. Nationalists didn't (and possibly still don't) make up half the north's population. Even if they did, the IRA didn't have anywhere near the support of all of them.

The IRA had more support from every nationalist than the crown forces did. Anyway pedantics aside, my point was to illustrate just how isolated unionists would be in a democraticlly voted UI.

downcow

orangerhyme wrote: »

One thing I've noticed in Belfast and the North in general is the amount of youth clubs/centers. Literally dozens just in Belfast.

Is this because of the troubles? They were set up to promote integration and cross community activities maybe.

Also lots of community centers. I've heard that lots of former paramilitaries now work as community workers.
Also that NI has a bloated public sector with 30% employees whereas 20% is the average

Yes. All true

FrancieBrady

6 wrote: »

Is anyone surprised? They riot most years during July. Be glad they are part of NI and not one of us. You'll never change the mindset of that cohort.

This is also rubbish.

The 12th as an event of taunting and triumphalism has been in decline for a long time. Moderate Unionism has been moving away from the Orange Order for years now too.

Look to the journey Ian Paisley Snr made in his lifetime. It does not always have to be like this.

Bobeagleburger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is also rubbish.

The 12th as an event of taunting and triumphalism has been in decline for a long time. Moderate Unionism has been moving away from the Orange Order for years now too.

Look to the journey Ian Paisley Snr made in his lifetime. It does not always have to be like this.

It's always simmering up there.

Let's see what this summer brings then before rubbishing opinions.

Dyr

6 wrote: »

Is anyone surprised? They riot most years during July. Be glad they are part of NI and not one of us. You'll never change the mindset of that cohort.

Just needs a firm hand to knock the nonsense out of the worst of 'em. Big lads until its put up to them.

An Claidheamh

PokeHerKing wrote: »

The IRA had more support from every nationalist than the crown forces did. Anyway pedantics aside, my point was to illustrate just how isolated unionists would be in a democraticlly voted UI.

Provos had only a few thousand, there were tens of thousands of RUC, Brits, MI5, not to mention the Irish Government and Gardaí exclusively targetting them and no others

They were successful because they had no qualms about giving as good as they got, something the British, loyalists and Thatcher were not used to

Support in the Republic was limited due to Official Ireland penalties e.g. media, Garda intimidation, FG and Labour

FrancieBrady

6 wrote: »

It's always simmering up there.

Let's see what this summer brings then before rubbishing opinions.

You said 'minsets will never be changed'.

That is rubbish, mindsets have been changed, not least the one of Ian Paisley senior.

Bobeagleburger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said 'minsets will never be changed'.

That is rubbish, mindsets have been changed, not least the one of Ian Paisley senior.

Yes, Ian paisley was out petrol bombing. Cmon Francie, awful example! You think you'll convince those people guys to sign up for a UI? Tell me with a straight face!

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/RepBrendanBoyle/status/1379923298314768385

Getting more notice from America. How long until Westminster realise what is happening will actually effect their trade plans?

Ash.J.Williams

Historically kids rioting on both sides had no political reasons to riot , it was Funtime