Belfast Disturbances

McMurphy

6 wrote: »

Yes, Ian paisley was out petrol bombing. Cmon Francie, awful example! You think you'll convince those people guys to sign up for a UI? Tell me with a straight face!

Arlene's not out lashing petrol bombs either - they whip their lackeys up into s frenzy to do this for them, surely you know this by now?

Would you buy a dog and bark yourself?

Bobeagleburger

Why would it affect their trade plans? Don't believe that for a second.

Money talks. The US will trade with the UK regardless of NI issues.

lawred2

vox pop from Belfast on Newstalk... obviously vox pops are always handpicked for effect

but one young lad offered up

"we're protestants and we hate the catholics so we be fighting..."

You'd feel sorry for him really... what an empty unfulfilling road he's setting off down. Hasn't a clue what he's talking about but he's willing to fight for it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is also rubbish.

The 12th as an event of taunting and triumphalism has been in decline for a long time. Moderate Unionism has been moving away from the Orange Order for years now too.

Look to the journey Ian Paisley Snr made in his lifetime. It does not always have to be like this.

Ian paisley senior was never in the Orange so I don’t know how he would move away from it

PokeHerKing

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Provos had only a few thousand, there were tens of thousands of RUC, Brits, MI5, not to mention the Irish Government and Gardaí exclusively targetting them and no others

They were successful because they had no qualms about giving as good as they got, something the British, loyalists and Thatcher were not used to

Support in the Republic was limited due to Official Ireland penalties e.g. media, Garda intimidation, FG and Labour

They had a porous border into an entirely separate jurisdiction that they used to their advantage extremely well. A jurisdiction that regardless of the official narrative had a hugely sympathetic population to their cause.

They also had massive overseas support from the US. All of these factors had much more of an impact then their rank and file numbers or 'giving as good as they got'.

Bobeagleburger

lawred2 wrote: »

vox pop from Belfast on Newstalk... obviously vox pops are always handpicked for effect

but one young lad offered up

"we're protestants and we hate the catholics so we be fighting..."

You'd feel sorry for him really... what an empty unfulfilling road he's setting off down. Hasn't a clue what he's talking about but he's willing to fight for it.

Sums up NI over the years tbh. Was the same in the 70 and 80s. Sad growing up with that hate.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Ian paisley senior was never in the Orange so I don’t know how he would move away from it

The point was actually about the Orange Order AND Ian Paisley.

But you are wrong again downcow, twice today, not good!

The late Mr Paisley finally left the organisation himself, in 1962, after complaining about senior Orange leaders attending Catholic services.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/paisley-split-with-orange-order-over-members-attending-mass-38851187.html

O'Neill

6 wrote: »

Sums up NI over the years tbh. Was the same in the 70 and 80s. Sad growing up with that hate.

Are you looking to just get a reaction or something. A minority of thugs like anywhere else doesn't sum up NI, but you alreay know that.

PokeHerKing

We might have to take downcows protestant card off him.

overshoot

downcow wrote: »

Boris was dishonest. The dup sleptwalked into it.
I did not vote for brexit, but I am a democrat and my nation did.
It was the Irish protocol which has created the problem

David Trimble sent a letter to Teresa May before her agreement was ever reached saying :
1-any land border with NI\ROI would violate the good Friday agreement and Vienna Convention
2-Any sea border would violate the act of union.
How is this conundrum going to be solved? I'm not aware of any reply.

Any talk of this prior to the vote was shouted down with technology, non issue, in fact the DUP are still saying technology but if that exists why is a sea border an issue?
No one sleeped walked into anything, they chose to ignoring it thinking they could steam roll little Ireland and when they found out they were actually dealing with the EU & US their two biggest trading partners, Boris, as Teresa did cut the north off to solve the international aspect so England could have it's brexit. Brexit created the problem, not the Irish protocol.

RandomViewer

O'Neill wrote: »

Are you looking to just get a reaction or something. A minority of thugs like anywhere else doesn't sum up NI, but you alreay know that.

FG supporters having trouble accepting DUP incited rioting,

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

Ian paisley senior was never in the Orange so I don’t know how he would move away from it

Oh dear....

Lollipop95

lawred2 wrote: »

vox pop from Belfast on Newstalk... obviously vox pops are always handpicked for effect

but one young lad offered up

"we're protestants and we hate the catholics so we be fighting..."

You'd feel sorry for him really... what an empty unfulfilling road he's setting off down. Hasn't a clue what he's talking about but he's willing to fight for it.

It’s sad, but also fascinating how the bitterness is passed down from generation to generation

FileNotFound

Lollipop95 wrote: »

It’s sad, but also fascinating how the bitterness is passed down from generation to generation

Crazy to most of us altogether, yet the hate up there is very real.

Really have to say, watching this would take away any real interest in unification for me. Need to allow these sentiments to die a bit first.

Then again their entire political system helps maintain the hate.

Sad really.

Effects

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Apart from the fact they are the same people. :rolleyes:

You’ll have to show me proof.

Fann Linn

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG supporters having trouble accepting DUP incited rioting,

Well, when your sister party is involved what else can they say?

Bobeagleburger

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG supporters having trouble accepting DUP incited rioting,

FG, yikes. They're as bad!

Bobeagleburger

That paisley and trimble photo is surely etched on everyone's brain from that era. Disgraceful at the time tbh.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The point was actually about the Orange Order AND Ian Paisley.

But you are wrong again downcow, twice today, not good!



https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/paisley-split-with-orange-order-over-members-attending-mass-38851187.html

Ok you a factually correct on this point but you are completely wrong on you original point that he moved away from the institution because he had became moderate.
What were other posters meant to think.
He left the orange 60 years ago because it was too moderate for him. A very different story than you were spinning

downcow

McMurphy wrote: »

Oh dear....

What’s your point Mc Murphy. He was not a member of the orange order during the time if either of those pictures.

McMurphy

6 wrote: »

That paisley and trimble photo is surely etched on everyone's brain from that era. Disgraceful at the time tbh.

That was after they had brought the north to a standstill for days on end because the orange order, a purely sectarian and bigoted organisation, were being prevented from marching up the Garvaghy road, a Catholic area in Portadown.

After a stalemate, the RUC and British Army intervened on the loyalists behalf, beat the Catholics off their own street leaving the orange order and loyalists to march up the road unhindered, by force.

That photo was Trimble and Paisley literally holding hands and dancing up the road to taunt the Catholics.

It's only 20 odd years ago but hard to fathom something like that would happen in Western Europe then.

downcow

McMurphy wrote: »

That was after they had brought the north to a standstill for days on end because the orange order, a purely sectarian and bigoted organisation, were being prevented from marching up the Garvaghy road, a Catholic area in Portadown.

After a stalemate, the RUC and British Army intervened on the loyalists behalf, beat the Catholics off their own street leaving the orange order and loyalists to march up the road unhindered, by force.

That photo was Trimble and Paisley literally holding hands and dancing up the road to taunt the Catholics.

It's only 20 odd years ago but hard to fathom something like that would happen in Western Europe then.

Would you have a video of the dance or is that another urban myth.
I’d love to see david Trimble dancing lol

O'Neill

O'Neill wrote: »

Are you looking to just get a reaction or something. A minority of thugs like anywhere else doesn't sum up NI, but you alreay know that.

Sums up a lot more of it than a lot of the people living in the clouds believe it’s like.

Lollipop95

Lollipop95 wrote: »

It’s sad, but also fascinating how the bitterness is passed down from generation to generation

Toxic family life I'd imagine to have a kid walking around with pure hatred bred into them.

There are plenty of Catholics and Unionists up there on friendly terms. A credit to their parents.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

What’s your point Mc Murphy. He was not a member of the orange order during the time if either of those pictures.

You said "he was never in" the orange order. Yes he was most definitely, in fact he was a fairly prominent member of it.

Stop trying to muddy the waters with whether he was or was not when the photos were taken, I never said he was, but the world and his dog knows Paisley was a one time prominent and controversial member of the orange order FFS, (except seemingly you).

You seem to be way behind on loyalism and unionism on certain key events and moments downcow.

downcow

overshoot wrote: »

David Trimble sent a letter to Teresa May before her agreement was ever reached saying :
1-any land border with NI\ROI would violate the good Friday agreement and Vienna Convention
2-Any sea border would violate the act of union.
How is this conundrum going to be solved? I'm not aware of any reply.

Any talk of this prior to the vote was shouted down with technology, non issue, in fact the DUP are still saying technology but if that exists why is a sea border an issue?
No one sleeped walked into anything, they chose to ignoring it thinking they could steam roll little Ireland and when they found out they were actually dealing with the EU & US their two biggest trading partners, Boris, as Teresa did cut the north off to solve the international aspect so England could have it's brexit. Brexit created the problem, not the Irish protocol.

The dup thought they could sell it to ordinary unionists on the ground. Not a chance, hence they have spent last months back peddling and haemorrhaging votes

downcow

McMurphy wrote: »

You said "he was never in" the orange order. Yes he was most definitely, in fact he was a fairly prominent member of it.

Stop trying to muddy the waters with whether he was or was not when the photos were taken, I never said he was, but the world and his dog knows Paisley was a one time prominent and controversial member of the orange order FFS, (except seemingly you).

You seem to be way behind on loyalism and unionism on certain key events and moments downcow.

He left it in 1962. And I am not aware of the prominent office he held

Tyrone212

FileNotFound wrote: »

Crazy to most of us altogether, yet the hate up there is very real.

Really have to say, watching this would take away any real interest in unification for me. Need to allow these sentiments to die a bit first.

Then again their entire political system helps maintain the hate.

Sad really.

A lack of education and prospects is a big cause of it. Education is largely segregated in the North. Catholics are out performing Protestant students. A higher % of Catholics are attending third level education. A higher % of Protestant youths are unemployed.

A lack of education, in poor run down areas results in disaffected youths being easily manipulated. Blame the other ones for their problems. Which suits the DUP down to the ground.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

Ian paisley senior was never in the Orange so I don’t know how he would move away from it

So he was in it?

downcow wrote: »

He left it in 1962. And I am not aware of the prominent office he held

Do you know the meaning of the word prominent?

igCorcaigh

Tyrone212 wrote: »

A lack of education and prospects is a big cause of it. Education is largely segregated in the North. Catholics are out performing Protestant students. A higher % of Catholics are attending third level education. A higher % of Protestant youths are unemployed.

A lack of education, in poor run down areas results in disaffected youths being easily manipulated. Blame the other ones for their problems. Which suits the DUP down to the ground.

Yeah, it's just crazy that segregated education still goes on in NI, as it is that our education is still in the control of the RCC.
Despite all the progress in recent years, Ireland, both North and South is, in some ways, a weird outlier in Western civilisation.