Belfast Disturbances

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:26pm

nullzero wrote: »

Of course the unionists would be annoyed by that as the 12th is a celebration of their victory over Catholicism. The 12th should in their eyes only be seen as a celebration of their superiority over all Irish and or Catholic people, not some namby pamby means of creating an inclusive progressive society in a United Ireland. The 12th as a national holiday in a United Ireland is akin to Nazi Germany celebrating the Passover.

Do you think St paddy’s day is a celebration of Christianity arriving in Ireland?

Seth Brundle · 10-04-2021 9:27pm

downcow wrote: »

To quote my Donegal father. ‘It’s a long road, that has no turning’

Meaning?

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:29pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Meaning?

I think there are a lot on here who think it is done and dusted and the current arrangements around an Irish Sea border will not change.
Never say never!

nullzero · 10-04-2021 9:30pm

downcow wrote: »

Do you think St paddy’s day is a celebration of Christianity arriving in Ireland?

It's a celebration of the patron saint of Ireland, who was of course Welsh and was instrumental in introducing Christianity to this island.

We have parades and drink too much and act the eejit on St Patrick's day.

We don't erect huge bonfires and burn effigies of Unionist politicians or burn Union jack flags etc...

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2021 9:32pm

downcow wrote: »

I think there are a lot on here who think it is done and dusted and the current arrangements around an Irish Sea border will not change.
Never say never!

They are sitting down discussing changes that can be made within the Protocol...the mechanisms that were always there. The Protocol nor the border will be changing.

briany · 10-04-2021 9:34pm

If a border between NI and the UK undermines the GFA, how would a border between RoI and NI undermine it any less?

Frank Bullitt · 10-04-2021 9:34pm

downcow wrote: »

I think there are a lot on here who think it is done and dusted and the current arrangements around an Irish Sea border will not change.
Never say never!

It is is ratified. So yes, it is done and dusted.

Seth Brundle · 10-04-2021 9:38pm

downcow wrote: »

I think there are a lot on here who think it is done and dusted and the current arrangements around an Irish Sea border will not change.
Never say never!

The protocol is an international agtrement and although it has been ratified by the UK side, it has not yet been ratified by the EU. They are not discussing arrangements which will go against the treaty.
They may however make adjustments which abide by the terms of the agreement.

As for my point which you conveniently ignored but continue to make incorrect claims about: the Irish sea border is a creation of the government of the UK. Nobody else!

I also make the valid claim that the DUP and other unionist parties were happy in the past to have customs checks in the Irish sea. Why is it completely unacceptable now?

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:43pm

nullzero wrote: »

It's a celebration of the patron saint of Ireland, who was of course Welsh and was instrumental in introducing Christianity to this island.

We have parades and drink too much and act the eejit on St Patrick's day.

We don't erect huge bonfires and burn effigies of Unionist politicians or burn Union jack flags etc...

They do burn union flags in Belfast on st Patrick’s day, but that was not the point I was making.
I was wondering how many people are out in the pubs thinking I must party because Christianity came to Ireland.
I am showing you that nobody is out on the 12th thinking let’s celebrate a battle 300 years ago.

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:44pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are sitting down discussing changes that can be made within the Protocol...the mechanisms that were always there. The Protocol nor the border will be changing.

It’s a long road that has no turning

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:45pm

briany wrote: »

If a border between NI and the UK undermines the GFA, how would a border between RoI and NI undermine it any less?

I agree

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:47pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The protocol is an international agtrement and although it has been ratified by the UK side, it has not yet been ratified by the EU. They are not discussing arrangements which will go against the treaty.
They may however make adjustments which abide by the terms of the agreement.

As for my point which you conveniently ignored but continue to make incorrect claims about: the Irish sea border is a creation of the government of the UK. Nobody else!

I also make the valid claim that the DUP and other unionist parties were happy in the past to have customs checks in the Irish sea. Why is it completely unacceptable now?

You will note that my answer to Francie included the idea of checks on the Irish Sea. I haven’t heard any unionist saying no checks on the Irish Sea.

nullzero · 10-04-2021 9:51pm

downcow wrote: »

They do burn union flags in Belfast on st Patrick’s day, but that was not the point I was making.
I was wondering how many people are out in the pubs thinking I must party because Christianity came to Ireland.
I am showing you that nobody is out on the 12th thinking let’s celebrate a battle 300 years ago.

We don't burn flags down here. What goes on up in that asylum of yours in not our concern.

You believe that nobody celebrating the 12th is thinking about celebrating the victory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690? The Orange order don't give a hoot about that victory and never mention it?

Jesus H Christ, the 12th is the very anniversary of that battle.

Are you having a laugh?

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2021 9:53pm

Those Unionists now depending on the GFA must all agree with this Unionist view. Not a great endorsement of their own politicians.

https://twitter.com/ElaineYoung94/status/1380951999269777409

UDAWINNER · 10-04-2021 9:56pm

if only there was leadership on the unionist side, tell young people not to be ruining their futures by following UDA/UVF Scum. But no it's all SF Fault.
BTW, comparing St Paddy's Day and the 12th is a joke, have you seen a St. Patrick's day parade that results in the burning of the Union Jack, or burning posters. Thought not, because the 12th is a sectarian holiday that should be put to rest
Interesting that some posters refuse to blame a certain side, can Arlene truly be seen as First Minister when she only represents one side of the people. Hell even if her call for loyalists to stop had to have go at SF
#bigotedparty

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:56pm

nullzero wrote: »

We don't burn flags down here. What goes on up in that asylum of yours in not our concern.

You believe that nobody celebrating the 12th is thinking about celebrating the victory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690? The Orange order don't give a hoot about that victory and never mention it?

Jesus H Christ, the 12th is the very anniversary of that battle.

Are you having a laugh?

So why don’t you tell me if you and your friends are bigging it up about Christianity arriving in Ireland when you are partying on St Patrick’s night

Jesus H Christ, St paddy’s is the very celebration of Christianity arriving

Are you having a laugh?

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Those Unionists now depending on the GFA must all agree with this Unionist view. Not a great endorsement of their own politicians.

https://twitter.com/ElaineYoung94/status/1380951999269777409

I agree 100% with that

downcow · 10-04-2021 9:59pm

UDAWINNER wrote: »

if only there was leadership on the unionist side, tell young people not to be ruining their futures by following UDA/UVF Scum. But no it's all SF Fault.
BTW, comparing St Paddy's Day and the 12th is a joke, have you seen a St. Patrick's day parade that results in the burning of the Union Jack, or burning posters. Thought not, because the 12th is a sectarian holiday that should be put to rest
Interesting that some posters refuse to blame a certain side, can Arlene truly be seen as First Minister when she only represents one side of the people. Hell even if her call for loyalists to stop had to have go at SF
#bigotedparty

Yes I have. Just google it. I am sure you will get images of union flags being burnt at the council funded St pats parade in Belfast

nullzero · 10-04-2021 10:05pm

downcow wrote: »

So why don’t you tell me if you and your friends are bigging it up about Christianity arriving in Ireland when you are partying on St Patrick’s night

Jesus H Christ, St paddy’s is the very celebration of Christianity arriving

Are you having a laugh?

There is no comparison between the two.

Even if people lose sight of the religious origin of St Patrick's day (they really shouldn't as the word Saint figures prominently in the title) the fact is that it is nothing like the 12th which is a celebration of a victory in a battle.

You'd be hard pressed to see a secular non political celebration of the 12th.

You are trying to compare a day that is based on a peaceful religious holiday and the celebration of the death of your enemies. It's apples and (ahem) oranges. There is no comparison between the two days and what they represent.

Your continued attempt to argue this point is doing nothing for my opinion of Unionists being demonstrably unreasonable ridiculous people devoid of any self awareness.

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2021 10:08pm

downcow wrote: »

I agree 100% with that

So you'll be voting for Alliance then? SDLP? SF? PBP?

downcow · 10-04-2021 10:14pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you'll be voting for Alliance then? SDLP? SF? PBP?

??

downcow · 10-04-2021 10:15pm

nullzero wrote: »

There is no comparison between the two.

Even if people lose sight of the religious origin of St Patrick's day (they really shouldn't as the word Saint figures prominently in the title) the fact is that it is nothing like the 12th which is a celebration of a victory in a battle.

You'd be hard pressed to see a secular non political celebration of the 12th.

You are trying to compare a day that is based on a peaceful religious holiday and the celebration of the death of your enemies. It's apples and (ahem) oranges. There is no comparison between the two days and what they represent.

Your continued attempt to argue this point is doing nothing for my opinion of Unionists being demonstrably unreasonable ridiculous people devoid of any self awareness.

I never said it was like it.

steddyeddy · 10-04-2021 10:16pm

What did the DUP do for the deprived loyalist areas in NI? I'm not saying they do nothing but I would love to know.

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2021 10:16pm

downcow wrote: »

??

Unionist politicians have failed you, you said you agreed with that. Who will you switch your vote to?

nullzero · 10-04-2021 10:17pm

downcow wrote: »

I never said it was like it.

What point were you making then?

You know what? Don't bother, we both know you don't have a point.

UDAWINNER · 10-04-2021 10:18pm

downcow wrote: »

Yes I have. Just google it. I am sure you will get images of union flags being burnt at the council funded St pats parade in Belfast

Would you attend a bonfire on the 12th that had the tricolor burning or a poster burning, simple question.

banie01 · 10-04-2021 10:21pm

nullzero wrote: »

Your continued attempt to argue this point is doing nothing for my opinion of Unionists being demonstrably unreasonable ridiculous people devoid of any self awareness.

I don't disagree, particularly with regard to the poster in question.
I'd qualify it a little more in that some unionists are of that Ilk.
The veneer of rationality, is lain thin over the absolute whataboutery and absurdity of some positions.

The vague nods towards folk wisdom, long roads and no turns...
With SFA, nothing, not one scintilla of a suggestion towards an alternative to the situation that Unionism itself conspired to place itself in.

No recognition of the perfidity that was spun to them by the Conservative and Unionist party.
No recognition of the simple fact that DUP pursuit of a hard brexit, led to May's backstop being thrown out.
Which is going to harm the mainland too, but not as suddenly as it has N.I.

The blame is lain everywhere but at the feet of Foster, Dodds, Wilson and co...
It's childish and it's dishonest in the extreme.
Unionism had a chance to lay value on the union, and instead chose to sell themselves and N.I out for a quick win of £1bln and the pseudo influence that the confidence and supply agreement brought.

Were I of a more biblical bent?
I'd remind those masters of the DUP shambles that not only did Judas, suffering from guilt and remorse at his betrayal of Jesus attempt to return the 30 pieces of silver...
He also killed himself!
So we can see he at least tried to own his actions!

Has the DUP made any effort to pay back their 30 pieces?
Has there been any acknowledgement of political culpability or a mea culpa?
A resignation?

Anything other than the current situation being the fault of the Irish, the EU, Gove, anyone but the DUP?

KyussB · 10-04-2021 11:10pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

That is simply never going to happen. EU membership has completely transformed Ireland’s economy and society for the better and the Irish electorate and body politic are more than fully aware of this.

EU membership has and does benefit us greatly - with the caveat that the Euro combined with the EU austerity treaties, has created a very dangerous bias towards austerity and persistently running below Full-Output/Full-Employment - that is only temporarily loosened due to the coronavirus triggering treaty exceptions.

This makes it so that Ireland is unable to carry Northern Ireland's gigantic fiscal deficit long-term - creating a very large barrier to reunification (as much as it would be nice to see it) - and creating a very credible economic argument, that Northern Ireland is better off in a union/currency that does not have budget-balancing/austerity built-in.

Zebra3 · 11-04-2021 12:15am

downcow wrote: »

So why don’t you tell me if you and your friends are bigging it up about Christianity arriving in Ireland when you are partying on St Patrick’s night

Jesus H Christ, St paddy’s is the very celebration of Christianity arriving

Are you having a laugh?

It's the same with Christmas. Most people don't give a toss about what allegedly happened with some kid being born in a barn and use it as an excuse to give presents and get drunk.

Same with Easter. Most people don't care that some Palestinian jew got nailed to a cross (allegedly) when they're stuffing their faces with chocolate.

(After all these traditions of mid-winter and harvest celebrations were just hijacked by Christian extemists and rebranded. Now they've been hijacked by consumerists. Same with all the nonsense about Paddy's Day).

O'Neill · 11-04-2021 1:33am

The depressing thing about it for me is how f**king usless our sec. of state is, Brandon Lewis. Julian Smith was the only competent man in this Government and he got sacked! I'm seeing a lot of Mo Mowlam stuff on social media atm, she is very sadly missed and tbh someone like her is very badly needed now imo.

Belfast Disturbances

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