Belfast Disturbances

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

I hope things like a bit of soil on a plant won`t be a problem or a fishtail sticking out of a box won`t be viewed as a major crisis by EU border inspectors in NI.

Those things are a major problem for people importing plants into California from other States in the US; and they're a major problem for imports into Australia. Given that it's a totally different geographical zone to GB, what makes NI (and by extension the whole island of Ireland) immune to new diseases allowed into GB by the Johnson administration's abandonment of import controls from third countries, and the authorisation of banned insecticides?

Bearing in mind that the same administration has passed legislation granting itself the right to drop food and environmental standards, with no minimum? The Lords objected, reinstated a minimum, but the Tories stripped it out again - so it's no accident that they want lower standards and less control.

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

No Seth,not a new protocol.I hope things like a bit of soil on a plant won`t be a problem or a fishtail sticking out of a box won`t be viewed as a major crisis by EU border inspectors in NI.

That soil policy has been in place pre-Brexit. The EU will not and should not remove it.
The UK knew this before they left

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I know I've previously taken (probably somewhat below the belt) jibes about you being banned from other threads on the topic, but in this case I'm specifically talking about the content and rhetoric of your posts. It isn't about having a UK viewpoint; you're British....of course you hope for what is best for your country, my criticism is of how you come across in a gloating manner, popping into a thread to tell us all about the latest slice of cake coming, and then disappear when it doesn't materialise.

I don't think I'd even mind if you presented it as what you're hoping to see rather than seeming like you're bragging about what is going to happen (putting aside the very stretched interpretation of Tony Connolly's tweet on this specific matter), or if you discussed it further afterwards, but it's just drop in, tell us how everything is coming up roses, doesn't happen, Houdini.

I've looked through all my posts about this and can't find any I see as gloating or bragging.Can you point out which of my posts you believe to be gloating or bragging because I'm genuinely flummoxed?

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I've looked through all my posts about this and can't find any I see as gloating or bragging.Can you point out which of my posts you believe to be gloating or bragging because I'm genuinely flummoxed?

As a starting point, your first post that led to this conversation where you were gloating about the compromises coming (despite the tweet saying nothing of the sort).

I believe quite a few were deleted from the Brexit thread also.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

As a starting point, your first post that led to this conversation where you were gloating about the compromises coming (despite the tweet saying nothing of the sort).

I believe quite a few were deleted from the Brexit thread also.

There's nothing gloating in the original link to the tweet Fionn and I'm unable to refer back to brexit thread posts which are nothing to do with what we are discussing anyway.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's nothing gloating in the original link to the tweet Fionn and I'm unable to refer back to brexit thread posts which are nothing to do with what we are discussing anyway.

.....we're literally discussing Brexit.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

.....we're literally discussing Brexit.

So you can't provide anything?-OK

Edit:let's just agree to disagree.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you can't provide anything?-OK

I already did. Perhaps your inability to even realise you're gloating is the problem rather than everyone else on the entire forum being unable to deal with a, 'UK viewpoint'...

I'm still perplexed as to how Brexit is off topic when we're discussing the NI Protocol too.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I already did. Perhaps your inability to even realise you're gloating is the problem rather than everyone else on the entire forum being unable to deal with a, 'UK viewpoint'...

I'm still perplexed as to how Brexit is off topic when we're discussing the NI Protocol too.

You've provided nothing beyond a vague idea I was gloating despite me asking you for it and now you're trying to move the goalposts,we were discussing posts on this thread and you have attempted to introduce other threads.
I've also said let's agree to disagree as I see no gain for either of us over this.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

You've provided nothing beyond a vague idea I was gloating despite me asking you for it and now you're trying to move the goalposts,we were discussing posts on this thread and you have attempted to introduce other threads.
I've also said let's agree to disagree as I see no gain for either of us over this.

Soon as you came on thread you were inventing 'EU compromises', challenged on it you watered that down to 'hoping for compromise'.

That was good old fashioned gloating. Your choice of language. We get it Rob, from your posting history here, the EU are the villians of the piece..all the time with you.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

You've provided nothing beyond a vague idea I was gloating despite me asking you for it and now you're trying to move the goalposts,we were discussing posts on this thread and you have attempted to introduce other threads.
I've also said let's agree to disagree as I see no gain for either of us over this.

I was quite clear from when I brought it up that I was talking about across multiple threads, Rob. I haven't moved the goalposts at all. To refresh your memory, here is the original quote:

I know I've previously taken (probably somewhat below the belt) jibes about you being banned from other threads on the topic, but in this case I'm specifically talking about the content and rhetoric of your posts. It isn't about having a UK viewpoint; you're British....of course you hope for what is best for your country, my criticism is of how you come across in a gloating manner, popping into a thread to tell us all about the latest slice of cake coming, and then disappear when it doesn't materialise.

Happy enough to leave it there if you'd like, but I would welcome you returning with your commentary following a resolution to our impasse here regardless of which side it falls to. If the EU finally provide all the cake and the UK come away with concessions of note (rather than just agreeing to implement the protocol), I'll be happy to put my hands up and acknowledge that I was wrong.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I was quite clear from when I brought it up that I was talking about across multiple threads, Rob. I haven't moved the goalposts at all. To refresh your memory, here is the original quote:



Happy enough to leave it there if you'd like, but I would welcome you returning with your commentary following a resolution to our impasse here regardless of which side it falls to. If the EU finally provide all the cake and the UK come away with concessions of note (rather than just agreeing to implement the protocol), I'll be happy to put my hands up and acknowledge that I was wrong.

You tried to introduce different threads which has caused problems previously.I offered to agree to disagree.If you can't see that is a good option that is your problem.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

You tried to introduce different threads which has caused problems previously.I offered to agree to disagree.If you can't see that is a good option that is your problem.

As I said

Happy enough to leave it there if you'd like, but I would welcome you returning with your commentary following a resolution to our impasse here regardless of which side it falls to. If the EU finally provide all the cake and the UK come away with concessions of note (rather than just agreeing to implement the protocol), I'll be happy to put my hands up and acknowledge that I was wrong.

compromise verb (AGREEMENT)

to accept that you will reduce your demands or change your opinion in order to reach an agreement with someone:
"Party unity is threatened when members will not compromise."

compromise verb (LOWER STANDARDS)

to allow your principles to be less strong or your standards or morals to be lower:
"Don't compromise your beliefs/principles for the sake of being accepted."

compromise verb (HARM)

to risk having a harmful effect on something:
"We would never compromise the safety of our passengers."


I think the impasse we're at is simply about what it actually means for the EU to compromise. Rob wants the EU to compromise (agreement) on soil, but doesn't see how that compromises (lowers standards / harms) the single market.

When they can't see it from the EU perspective, I guess it's easy to just see soil as a silly old thing not worth worrying about.

Marco23d

The last couple of years has been groundbreaking we have seen loyalist paramilitaries withdraw their support for the Good Friday agreement but for once Loyalist violence/hatred is not being directed against innocent Catholics and is being directed at the state they claim to love so much.

Imagine now soon we see republican paramilitaries start launching attacks against the security forces could we finally see loyalists and republicans come together and fight the state?

Seth Brundle

Marco23d wrote: »

Imagine now soon we see republican paramilitaries start launching attacks against the security forces could we finally see loyalists and republicans come together and fight the state?

Not a chance!
I actually don't see nationalists returning to an armed campaign unless the British impose a hard border; but I don't see the British doing that.
Nationalists know that a united Ireland is within their grasp. Loyalist violence is likely to bring that closer ironically, IMO.

FrancieBrady

Marco23d wrote: »

The last couple of years has been groundbreaking we have seen loyalist paramilitaries withdraw their support for the Good Friday agreement but for once Loyalist violence/hatred is not being directed against innocent Catholics and is being directed at the state they claim to love so much.

Imagine now soon we see republican paramilitaries start launching attacks against the security forces could we finally see loyalists and republicans come together and fight the state?

Did you miss the sustained attacks on the peace walls?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the sustained attacks on the peace walls?

Terrible scenes,also the attacks by youths from both communities on the PSNI.The PSNI are a credit to NI,doing their job in the face of these cowardly attacks.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0409/1208725-northern-ireland/

Marco23d

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the sustained attacks on the peace walls?

I did actually I haven't been paying much attention to the news the last few weeks I've been busy I only heard bits and bobs.

Quite bizarre the loyalist community they're angry at the British state and they take it out on ordinary Catholic people.

I don't even blame the loyalist community for this I see the protestant community as much my people as anyone else on the island I blame the British state for this hatred and division they have created in my nation.

Only when we remove that British presence can we ever come together and fully reach our potential.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Terrible scenes,also the attacks by youths from both communities on the PSNI.The PSNI are a credit to NI,doing their job in the face of these cowardly attacks.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0409/1208725-northern-ireland/

Yes, a disgrace that they are being called corrupt. So much has been done to reform them.

Hamsterchops

Are they still rioting?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are they still rioting?

They're still respecting the queen HC.

Penfailed

downcow wrote: »

I love your confidence about a UI in 30 years, but there is not a chance. Gfa has handed the decision to ni residents. They would have taken leave if their senses to walk away voluntarily from U.K.

The UK took leave of their senses by walking away voluntarily from the EU. Never say never...

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They're still respecting the queen HC.

Well long may they respect her is all I can say. Rioting isn't going to solve anything.

Penfailed

PokeHerKing wrote: »

I could say the same for Brexit. But here we are, a small majority of English people voted to leave. Id have said a UI was mostly pie in the sky before Brexit due to the relative stability and equality that the GFA brought but I'm convinced Brexit will be a new catalyst to drive one over the next few decades.

Don't worry downcow we won't burn you out, we'll pack your bags and give you a first class ferry ticket back to the motherland when it does happen.

I agree with the first paragraph. The second, not so much. Unionists would be welcome in a UI.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well long may they respect her is all I can say. Rioting isn't going to solve anything.

I find it one of the most absurd positions I have seen in my life tbh and I am closer to 60 than I would prefer.

In the context of the north that is also saying something.

We are not rioting and wrecking the place out of respect for our queen - whose signature on the Protocol law, has put us in the position we are in. :D

Who would loyalist working class vote for in a UI
Certainly not FG or SF
What would happen to unionist conservative parties?
They are only strong because they unite the vote on one matter

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They're still respecting the queen HC.

This might interest you Francie as I know you have a soft spot for the Royal Family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56766303.amp

Crooked Jack

Marine Layer wrote: »

Who would loyalist working class vote for in a UI
Certainly not FG or SF
What would happen to unionist conservative parties?
They are only strong because they unite the vote on one matter

There's no reason to think the existing unionist parties would disappear, although I imagine they'd merge into a single bloc to increase their influence.

Working class loyalists have always voted on the "loyalist" end of that phrase rather than the "working class" end. That kind of politics is seen as commie and therefore republican by loyalists, which is why they've kept parties that do absolutely nothing for them in power for 100 years.

Also, once the national question is dealt with, the DUP/UUP might be surprised to find how much they have in common with FFG

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

This might interest you Francie as I know you have a soft spot for the Royal Family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56766303.amp

No soft spot for monarchy Rob, but I have an abiding interest in the drum culture. I was heavily involved in a border festival of the drums called Different Drums Of Ireland at which there were many fine specimens of the Lambeg. The one in your link is a fine example too.