Belfast Disturbances

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

and that unionist politicians have told them to be violent?

You'll have to explain this bit to me then.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Explain what you are saying?
Are you saying that republicans were going to start killing us again if there was a border around the UK, and that Leo just pointed that out, out of the goodness of his heart?
And are you saying loyalists were going to maintain the peace even if there was a border established in the UK isolating ni from the rest, and that unionist politicians have told them to be violent?

You guys need to take off the prejudiced blinkers and accept a little reality.

Other than making you look silly it doesn't much matter anymore.

The border is staying where it is.

Christy42

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Other than making you look silly it doesn't much matter anymore.

The border is staying where it is.

Indeed. It was pointed out 5 years ago that no one had the power to actually close of the NI/Republic border in a serious fashion and that the obvious place to put a border was the Irish sea if Brexit was passed. This was dismissed and we were assured there was some magic technology that would take care of it.


Now Brexit was passed and had the support of the DUP who now don't want the consequences they were informed of 5 years ago. They still don't have the capability to close the border in a serious fashion, they don't have a magic piece of tech to make it all go away. You can argue Nationalist vs Unionist all you like but the only sensible place for the border that the UK wanted is the Irish Sea.

RandomViewer

downcow wrote: »

The problem is that they have watched Leo and Irish nationalists raise the threat of violence, very successfully. Why would they use rational argument when Leo achieved success by pointing out that the ira would turn violent if there was a border where nationalists didn’t want it?

Any attacks would have been in the financial centre of London, Brits couldn't care less about dead Nordies, MI5 have enough dirt on the entire DUP, watch some dirty laundry coming soon,

downcow

Christy42 wrote: »

Indeed. It was pointed out 5 years ago that no one had the power to actually close of the NI/Republic border in a serious fashion and that the obvious place to put a border was the Irish sea if Brexit was passed. This was dismissed and we were assured there was some magic technology that would take care of it.


Now Brexit was passed and had the support of the DUP who now don't want the consequences they were informed of 5 years ago. They still don't have the capability to close the border in a serious fashion, they don't have a magic piece of tech to make it all go away. You can argue Nationalist vs Unionist all you like but the only sensible place for the border that the UK wanted is the Irish Sea.

You do know that the border is at Newry and some checks are at Larne?
So the border staying at where it is is good with me.
It shows how defeated United irelanders are when they are happy with cows ear tags being checked at Larne as opposed to their objective of a UI
100 years to get some symbolic stuff like rabies injections for dogs entering island from gb. It’s a very slow crawl lol

Christy42

downcow wrote: »

You do know that the border is at Newry and some checks are at Larne?
So the border staying at where it is is good with me.
It shows how defeated United irelanders are when they are happy with cows ear tags being checked at Larne as opposed to their objective of a UI
100 years to get some symbolic stuff like rabies injections for dogs entering island from gb. It’s a very slow crawl lol

I didn't say anything about a UI? This is about the checks due to Brexit. I am not sure Newry counts as a border by itself. Britain wanted control of its borders, the EU wants control of the single market. It can't control the NI one so it will be happy enough with the sea one.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You do know that the border is at Newry and some checks are at Larne?
So the border staying at where it is is good with me.
It shows how defeated United irelanders are when they are happy with cows ear tags being checked at Larne as opposed to their objective of a UI
100 years to get some symbolic stuff like rabies injections for dogs entering island from gb. It’s a very slow crawl lol

Seems to me the only people getting excited and worked up about symbolism and abstract notions (separation) are Unionists themselves.
They are positively imploding in front of our eyes as a border is established and yet again the world moves on without them. Completely and utterly out of strategic moves to change things.

They need to face that reality head on and it doesn't look like they can.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

You do know that the border is at Newry and some checks are at Larne?
So the border staying at where it is is good with me.
It shows how defeated United irelanders are when they are happy with cows ear tags being checked at Larne as opposed to their objective of a UI
100 years to get some symbolic stuff like rabies injections for dogs entering island from gb. It’s a very slow crawl lol

This is a great example of the talking out of both sides of your mouth that certain cohorts of Unionism are often guilty of.

Complaining about how you're being treated like second class citizens, having your culture and rights eroded out of one side to justify the current violence.....but unable to swallow your natural tendency towards triumphalism and being perceived as getting one over on, 'themmuns' long enough to be consistent with this.

Which is it, Downcow? Is the NI Protocol a great travesty and completely untenable for any Unionist making the current violence an inevitability.....or is it a symbol of how defeated United Irelanders are and totally fine with you....the two positions are mutually exclusive.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

This is a great example of the talking out of both sides of your mouth that certain cohorts of Unionism are often guilty of.

Complaining about how you're being treated like second class citizens, having your culture and rights eroded out of one side to justify the current violence.....but unable to swallow your natural tendency towards triumphalism and being perceived as getting one over on, 'themmuns' long enough to be consistent with this.

Which is it, Downcow? Is the NI Protocol a great travesty and completely untenable for any Unionist making the current violence an inevitability.....or is it a symbol of how defeated United Irelanders are and totally fine with you....the two positions are mutually exclusive.

The 'two positions' as you call them, that I outline are completely compatible.
Maybe you could tell me which you think is not true
1) the border between the UK and ROI is along the edge of counties down, Armagh, Fermanagh and Londonderry. It separates Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in international law. The currencies, VAT regimes, etc - even the approach to Covid, vaccinations, etc are all different on each side of this international border.
2) the Irish protocol is currently causing a series of checks to take place within the UK on the border between Northern Ireland and Scotland, in one direction; checks are not required between any of the other countries of the UK. These include pets requiring rabies vaccinations, prevention of soil on ways of tractors, many animals cannot return to Northern Ireland, additional paperwork for companies, etc.

So tell me. Is there something in the above that is not true? And please don't waste all our time spent ducking and diving and waffling - a clear answer suffice

Dyr

downcow wrote: »

2) the Irish protocol is currently causing a series of checks to take place within the UK on the border between Northern Ireland and Scotland, in one direction; checks are not required between any of the other countries of the UK. These include pets requiring rabies vaccinations, prevention of soil on ways of tractors, many animals cannot return to Northern Ireland, additional paperwork for companies, etc.

So tell me. Is there something in the above that is not true? And please don't waste all our time spent ducking and diving and waffling - a clear answer suffice

Scotland, Wales and England are not subject to the Good Friday and St Andrews Agreement. There is no requirement for the UK to maintain a fritctionless border between its internal regions, there is for its border in Ireland

The next time that six counties loyalists try holding the British government to ransom they should also try to avoid blowing their own foot off in the process

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

The 'two positions' as you call them, that I outline are completely compatible.
Maybe you could tell me which you think is not true
1) the border between the UK and ROI is along the edge of counties down, Armagh, Fermanagh and Londonderry. It separates Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in international law. The currencies, VAT regimes, etc - even the approach to Covid, vaccinations, etc are all different on each side of this international border.
2) the Irish protocol is currently causing a series of checks to take place within the UK on the border between Northern Ireland and Scotland, in one direction; checks are not required between any of the other countries of the UK. These include pets requiring rabies vaccinations, prevention of soil on ways of tractors, many animals cannot return to Northern Ireland, additional paperwork for companies, etc.

So tell me. Is there something in the above that is not true? And please don't waste all our time spent ducking and diving and waffling - a clear answer suffice

Entirely true and completely unrelated to what I actually said was mutually exclusive.

We're aware of where the border IS, we're aware what the NI Protocol IS.....I didnt state THEY were mutually exclusive, I stated that your duality of moaning about the NI Protocol oppressing Unionists and your culture to the point that violence is inevitable is not compatible with your latest triumphalist ranting about how it is a symbol of the defeat of, 'United Irelanders'. My suspicion is that you couldn't resist a dig and forgot that you were supposed to be feigning oppression....the old permanent need to rub it up themmuns just went on autopilot.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Entirely true and completely unrelated to what I actually said was mutually exclusive.

We're aware of where the border IS, we're aware what the NI Protocol IS.....I didnt state THEY were mutually exclusive, I stated that your duality of moaning about the NI Protocol oppressing Unionists and your culture to the point that violence is inevitable is not compatible with your latest triumphalist ranting about how it is a symbol of the defeat of, 'United Irelanders'. My suspicion is that you couldn't resist a dig and forgot that you were supposed to be feigning oppression....the old permanent need to rub it up themmuns just went on autopilot.

I have been very open and honest that we have learnt from Leo etc on playing on the threat of violence, and we have learnt from republicans to feign oppression so as the crocodiles get fed.
We might actually be on the same page but just using different language

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I have been very open and honest that we have learnt from Leo etc on playing on the threat of violence, and we have learnt from republicans to feign oppression so as the crocodiles get fed.
We might actually be on the same page but just using different language

This rhetoric is truly pathetic, Downcow. Everyone's fault but yours as usual.

At least you acknowledge that the moaning about oppression is completely and utterly fake. I'll be sure to remind you the next time you forget which hat you're wearing for the day.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I have been very open and honest that we have learnt from Leo etc on playing on the threat of violence, and we have learnt from republicans to feign oppression so as the crocodiles get fed.
We might actually be on the same page but just using different language

The threat and the carrying out of it hasn't worked. Arlene lost her job and the border is going nowhere but down the Irish Sea.

firemansam4

downcow wrote: »

I have been very open and honest that we have learnt from Leo etc on playing on the threat of violence, and we have learnt from republicans to feign oppression so as the crocodiles get fed.
We might actually be on the same page but just using different language

I dont frequent these type of threads often but boy for a Unionist you do sure spent some amount of your time on this Irish site spouting absolute nonsense..

Can you please tell me when Leo Varadkar threatened violence if there ended up being a border again? maybe a link please?

BTW if I warn a person that walking down a dodgy street at night might end up with them getting mugged, it doesn't mean I actually made a threat to mug that person.

Thats how ridiculous your argument is here, and trying to use it to justify the violence happening with loyalists now.

VinLieger

downcow wrote: »

I have been very open and honest that we have learnt from Leo etc on playing on the threat of violence, and we have learnt from republicans to feign oppression so as the crocodiles get fed.
We might actually be on the same page but just using different language

Im still flabbergasted that you honestly are still trying to portray Leo Varadkar making a completely reasonable observation about likely terrorist groups behavior in the event of certain scenarios in a highly volatile area as him making some kind of threat.

Do you think the leader of FG has the army council on speed dial and they are sitting waiting for his call like love struck little schoolgirls?

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Im still flabbergasted that you honestly are still trying to portray Leo Varadkar making a completely reasonable observation about likely terrorist groups behavior in the event of certain scenarios in a highly volatile area as him making some kind of threat.

Do you think the leader of FG has the army council on speed dial and they are sitting waiting for his call like love struck little schoolgirls?

Kate Hoey said it too in the House Of Lords and got destroyed yesterday. It was greeted by shouts of 'Shame' and 'Sit down' and one lord was heard saying 'It was your fault'.
It was pointed out that the UK's very own PSNI was warning of the possibility of violence before Leo.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/07/n-ireland-police-chief-says-hard-brexit-border-posts-would-be-paramilitary-target

But but but Leo
Lol
This violence haa one starter and it ain't the Tánaiste

downcow

firemansam4 wrote: »

I dont frequent these type of threads often but boy for a Unionist you do sure spent some amount of your time on this Irish site spouting absolute nonsense..

Can you please tell me when Leo Varadkar threatened violence if there ended up being a border again? maybe a link please?

BTW if I warn a person that walking down a dodgy street at night might end up with them getting mugged, it doesn't mean I actually made a threat to mug that person.

Thats how ridiculous your argument is here, and trying to use it to justify the violence happening with loyalists now.

Here you go https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/leo-varadkar-references-ira-customs-post-bombing-highlight-importance-border-issue-241100%3famp
And he wasn’t honest enough to explain that The story was from 1972, when nine people were killed and six injured after a premature bomb explosion.

I know my consistency pisses people off on here. But I have no problem whether you say Leo was using the threat of violence or not, but please be consistent as the unionist politicians have learnt from him and are starting to do the same

And apologies for daring to be a Brit on your ‘Irish’ forum It would be much easier for you if it was a republican echo chamber

J Mysterio

downcow wrote: »

I know my consistency pisses people off on here.

Pretty sure you were caught out for lack of consistency just yesterday.

downcow

VinLieger wrote: »

Im still flabbergasted that you honestly are still trying to portray Leo Varadkar making a completely reasonable observation about likely terrorist groups behavior in the event of certain scenarios in a highly volatile area as him making some kind of threat.

Do you think the leader of FG has the army council on speed dial and they are sitting waiting for his call like love struck little schoolgirls?

I would accept your point if he had also warned that there could be violence from loyalists if there were additional checks on the Irish Sea.
BUT HE DIDN’T!
Time to get the blinkers off. It is obvious what he was at.
....or maybe you can explain to me why he didn’t mention the downsides of checks on Irish Sea?

Your position has zero credibility

downcow

J Mysterio wrote: »

Pretty sure you were caught out for lack of consistency just yesterday.

I think you mean ‘accused’ and I scuppered the accusation with facts

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Here you go https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/leo-varadkar-references-ira-customs-post-bombing-highlight-importance-border-issue-241100%3famp
And he wasn’t honest enough to explain that The story was from 1972, when nine people were killed and six injured after a premature bomb explosion.

I know my consistency pisses people off on here. But I have no problem whether you say Leo was using the threat of violence or not, but please be consistent as the unionist politicians have learnt from him and are starting to do the same

And apologies for daring to be a Brit on your ‘Irish’ forum It would be much easier for you if it was a republican echo chamber

The border was consolidated this week with the EU ratifying the deal.
That's Westminster in,
The EU in.

The border in the Irish Sea is hardening downcow.

realdanbreen

downcow wrote: »

I would accept your point if he had also warned that there could be violence from loyalists if there were additional checks on the Irish Sea.
BUT HE DIDN’T!
Time to get the blinkers off. It is obvious what he was at.
....or maybe you can explain to me why he didn’t mention the downsides of checks on Irish Sea?

Your position has zero credibility

What's your opinion on the potentially new leader of the dup's belief that the world was created 6024 years ago? Do you agree with him?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I think you mean ‘accused’ and I scuppered the accusation with facts

Oh my....emergency surgery required for a serious case of sides being split.

You were accused.....and fully admitted that your complaints of oppression were entirely feigned....in other words, you LIED.

we have learnt from republicans to feign oppression

Consistent my eye.

downcow

realdanbreen wrote: »

What's your opinion on the potentially new leader of the dup's belief that the world was created 6024 years ago? Do you agree with him?

I have no time for the dup and I think the choice of posts is a backwards move.

Sf and dup have a terrible record in their choice of leaders.

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

I have no time for the dup and I think the choice of posts is a backwards move.

My recollection is that you said how you now support the DUP. So you support them but have no time for them?

realdanbreen

downcow wrote: »

I have no time for the dup and I think the choice of posts is a backwards move.

Sf and dup have a terrible record in their choice of leaders.

Very interesting.
But it doesn't answer the question I asked you.

FrancieBrady

Seth Brundle wrote: »

My recollection is that you said how you now support the DUP. So you support them but have no time for them?

His views are definitely aligned with the DUP's and he is also constantly threatening Loyalist violence.

VinLieger

downcow wrote: »

I would accept your point if he had also warned that there could be violence from loyalists if there were additional checks on the Irish Sea.
BUT HE DIDN’T!
Time to get the blinkers off. It is obvious what he was at.
....or maybe you can explain to me why he didn’t mention the downsides of checks on Irish Sea?

Your position has zero credibility

My position has zero credibility? You are still trying to argue that Leo Varadkar, the Leader of Fine Gael, somehow has the ability to dole out threats on behalf of the IRA and other republican terrorist organisations.