Belfast Disturbances

Sunny Disposition

briany wrote: »

The sea border is in place because it's easier to run it. The sea border is also in place because it has greater political and economic backing than the land one. Let's think back to Arlene Foster's meeting with NI business leaders a couple of years ago. Foster was annoyed when she realised the consensus was that the proposed backstop of the time was welcome. In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters of support for the backstop to Donald Tusk. That was a majority of the NI assembly.

Not only that, but the current situation is not even permanent, or at least doesn't have to be, because there is a legal, democratic mechanism to cancel it and go back to the drawing board. No violence needed. So, why violence? Well it's obviously a language that paramilitaries are comfortable with using, but also I have to wonder if Loyalists see no way out of the sea border without violence, i.e. they don't have confidence of getting it voted down.

As I've always said, Brexit, or at least the Brexit as imagined by the ERG types, is incompatible with the GFA because it necessitates a border somewhere as the UK seeks to diverge with the EU on standards. But if a border absolutely has to go somewhere, then it *will* go somewhere, and it went somewhere the DUP do not like. Saying, 'well, Varadkar was threatening that the IRA would start up again if there was a land border" isn't really a point. Both Varadkar and Foster raised concerns of potential violence, but if there's going to be violence wherever this border goes then the point is moot, and it becomes a question of which violence is the more manageable. So far, the violence shown by some hoods in Belfast doesn't exactly rise above the general hum of an average marching season, so no-one really cares.

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.

Tyrone212

I find it amusing how loyalists are blaming the EU for the protocol. The UK government shafted them in the sense they said there would be no sea border and signed a deal with the EU agreeing to a sea border, you even had senior tory mps disputing there even is a sea border this year. Yet they only blame the EU. The levels of delusion are unreal.

Another thing they give out about is that it goes against the will the of the people in the North. Conveniently forgetting the North voted to remain in the EU. Anyway Unionist leadership shot themselves in the foot backing Brexit. They said no to May's agreement, the ERG said they would back it if it had Unionist support. If they had said yes there would be no sea border now. Clowns galore.

briany

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.

Yes, if those leaders up the ante then they'll only hurt their cause. Violence over the sea border doesn't really have much popular support, and among those who might have been ambivalent about violence 40 or 50 years ago, the appetite for more is gone.

Sunny Disposition

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I find it amusing how loyalists are blaming the EU for the protocol. The UK government shafted them in the sense they said there would be no sea border and signed a deal with the EU agreeing to a sea border, you even had senior tory mps disputing there even is a sea border this year. Yet they only blame the EU. The levels of delusion are unreal.

Another thing they give out about is that it goes against the will the of the people in the North. Conveniently forgetting the North voted to remain in the EU. Anyway Unionist leadership shot themselves in the foot backing Brexit. They said no to May's agreement, the ERG said they would back it if it had Unionist support. If they had said yes there would be no sea border now. Clowns galore.

Their position makes no sense, the UK government, their government, agreed it! Totally shout themselves in the foot. Really clear that many of the unionists who backed Brexit did so in the hope it could strengthen the union, but that wasn’t very realistic. It is a fierce psychological blow for unionism, and has made the north more unstable. This summer could be quite bad, and if it is it’ll be the poor unfortunates from the poorest parts of the North that’ll have their cars damaged and end up with criminal records. Unionist people need some leadership now but it doesn’t seem to be there.

lawred2

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I find it amusing how loyalists are blaming the EU for the protocol. The UK government shafted them in the sense they said there would be no sea border and signed a deal with the EU agreeing to a sea border, you even had senior tory mps disputing there even is a sea border this year. Yet they only blame the EU. The levels of delusion are unreal.

Another thing they give out about is that it goes against the will the of the people in the North. Conveniently forgetting the North voted to remain in the EU. Anyway Unionist leadership shot themselves in the foot backing Brexit. They said no to May's agreement, the ERG said they would back it if it had Unionist support. If they had said yes there would be no sea border now. Clowns galore.

Wouldn't have believed that empty promise for a second

They'd have found another reason to shaft Theresa May

May was in Brussels ready to do the Deal.. The documentary, Storyville Brexit: Behind Closed Doors, has video of the fallout of when May says she can't do it because of the DUP. It's the famous one where they just go mental privatelt and talk about her being pathetic for not having the DUP onside already.

A small part of it is in the promo on this page: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-bbc-documentary-behind-closed-doors-barnier-verhofstadt-a8904156.html

The documentary is well worth a watch.

jimmycrackcorm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.

It's one thing to protest about something, but if you asked them what should replace it, they wouldn't have a clue. The British media don't care about it because to them it's an "Irish" problem.

BanditLuke

Bye bye Loyalists. Head back to the mainland your time is up.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exports from here to GB fell in January. Exports from here to NI increased. The Protocol is a potential jobs bonanza for the North.

The lads out rioting wouldn't be looking for jobs, that could be seen as a threat to their culture

An Claidheamh

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They had a point about the RCC, far too much control, the place was practically a theocracy. Partition allowed the worst elements to come to prominence in the north and south. However, the RCC in the south has been largely neutered.

In the north the largest Unionist party are dominated by a paleo-conservative sect known as 'Free Presbyterians', a lot of the members, and elected representatives, are in the Orange Order and they still routinely consult with unionist drugs/racketeering gangs on social policies.

What the Official Ireland narrative refuses to accept is that when British/Northern Protestants complain of Catholic control - they mean as opposed to full Protestant control

Protestantism is a basis of British identity along with Monarchy

Just like equality for nationalists was seen as “oppression” for unionists

Irish are “nationalist” because they are Irish nationals not British nationals

They are not secular and UK has never been a secular constitutional country (just a past of sectarianism)

They were against “Rome Rule” as they felt the British Monarch was giving them Protestant Rule and preferential treatment for being Protestant - which, of course, was true

An Claidheamh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

May was in Brussels ready to do the Deal.. The documentary, Storyville Brexit: Behind Closed Doors, has video of the fallout of when May says she can't do it because of the DUP. It's the famous one where they just go mental privatelt and talk about her being pathetic for not having the DUP onside already.

A small part of it is in the promo on this page: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-bbc-documentary-behind-closed-doors-barnier-verhofstadt-a8904156.html

The documentary is well worth a watch.

Her own fault, she should have stood up to them

An Claidheamh

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's one thing to protest about something, but if you asked them what should replace it, they wouldn't have a clue. The British media don't care about it because to them it's an "Irish" problem.

History shows when we offer a reasonable solution they suddenly regard it as an “internal British problem”

Until others put some manners on them

coolbeans

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

The DUP held the balance of power under Teresa May. They refused to support her deal which would have preserved NI's position within the UK. Then they supported the mendacious and amoral Johnson who, predictably, sold them out after lying to their faces. He's no buffoon, he knew he'd lose the least political capital by betraying the wildly unpopular DUPers and the people of NI who are seen in England as simply a bunch of squabbling paddies, the orange tradition included. This is entirely unionism's doing. It's time to stop with the victim narrative and move along.

Zebra3

We really need to resolve this Irish Sea border issue!!!!

If we can all just sit down at a able and resolve our differences because this is what it's all about!!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/children-as-young-as-12-involved-in-new-night-of-violence-in-northern-ireland-40276136.html

Meanwhile in Co Antrim, a recent series of drug seizures targeting the South East Antrim UDA – a renegade faction of the main grouping – have caused particular ill-feeling towards police.

The faction is believed to have been behind some of the weekend disturbances.

As someone said on Twitter said earlier, this is what happens when paramilitaries lose all faith in the police.

charlietully

RandomViewer wrote: »

The lads out rioting wouldn't be looking for jobs, that could be seen as a threat to their culture

they are still at school

shtpEdthePlum

Zebra3 wrote: »

That's the way it always is.

Did you see Bush or Blair fighting in Iraq?

I know it wasn't all sunshine and roses but at least those lads had training and pensions.

Zebra3 wrote: »

We really need to resolve this Irish Sea border issue!!!!

If we can all just sit down at a able and resolve our differences because this is what it's all about!!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/children-as-young-as-12-involved-in-new-night-of-violence-in-northern-ireland-40276136.html

Quote:
Meanwhile in Co Antrim, a recent series of drug seizures targeting the South East Antrim UDA – a renegade faction of the main grouping – have caused particular ill-feeling towards police.

The faction is believed to have been behind some of the weekend disturbances.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1368632178247151619?s=20

Nice people.

Junkyard Tom

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Even if the union continues them they’ll always be on the back foot compared to what was the case.

They have well-and-truly backed themselves into a corner. At a time when unionists need to be on a charm offensive to secure their 'precious union' they are putting everyone off.

briany

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They have well-and-truly backed themselves into a corner. At a time when unionists need to be on a charm offensive to secure their 'precious union' they are putting everyone off.

Yeah, the likelihood is that the DUP will have to tone down talk about identity politics in the near future and instead ramp up rhetoric about why they feel it's great to be a part of the UK, such as having access to the NHS, and the relatively strong pound sterling as a currency. Things like that - things which would appeal to people who may come from a broadly Nationalist background, but are more pragmatic than anything and whose greatest concern is the best quality of life.

Junkyard Tom

briany wrote: »

Yeah, the likelihood is that the DUP will have to tone down talk about identity politics in the near future.

I honestly don't think they're capable. The mouths are never reigned in and they drown out the 'moderates'. Meanwhile the UUP follow the lead of the DUP mouths for fear of being labelled Lundys.

Moderate Unionists' only choice is to vote for Alliance?

FrancieBrady

Cold night, the revolution seems to be over.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Cold night, the revolution seems to over.

The ultimate problem for Unionists is that this is not Britain and never will be. Unionists live in Ireland among the Irish and there's a rough sea and cultural chasm between them and the 'mainland'.

RandomViewer

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I honestly don't think they're capable. The mouths are never reigned in and they drown out the 'moderates'. Meanwhile the UUP follow the lead of the DUP mouths for fear of being labelled Lundys.

Moderate Unionists' only choice is to vote for Alliance?

Any hint of moderation or compromise could lead to an unfortunate " hunting accident"

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone said on Twitter said earlier, this is what happens when paramilitaries lose all faith in the police.

If paramilitaries had any faith in police there wouldn't be paramilitaries.

bilbot79

BanditLuke wrote: »

Bye bye Loyalists. Head back to the mainland your time is up.

No. We have to live together.

igCorcaigh

It would be wise to listen to the concerns of the PUL community in NI, and not to just dismiss some toe rags.

We can be so naive here in the South/ROI.
All the silly talk about what flag we could have in some future united Ireland, ffs.

igCorcaigh

BanditLuke wrote: »

Bye bye Loyalists. Head back to the mainland your time is up.

Ah yes, the ethnic cleansing option.
I guess there's always that.

Christ.

For Forks Sake

BanditLuke wrote: »

Bye bye Loyalists. Head back to the mainland your time is up.

Always plenty of fans of the Judenfrei methods about these threads.

Padre_Pio

These lads aren't loyalists or paramilitaries.
They're just a bunch of d*ckheads looking for an excuse to riot.
There's no political motive here, I doubt any of them are engaging with a politician or media outlet explaining their objectives.

Plenty of them in every part of Ireland. They should be arrested for vandalism and that's it. No sense giving them a platform. The NI protocol is the excuse, not the reason.

BanditLuke

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The ultimate problem for Unionists is that this is not Britain and never will be. Unionists live in Ireland among the Irish and there's a rough sea and cultural chasm between them and the 'mainland'.

And the vast vast majority of the mainland don't give a hoot about them.