Belfast Disturbances

FrancieBrady

Padre_Pio wrote: »

These lads aren't loyalists or paramilitaries.
They're just a bunch of d*ckheads looking for an excuse to riot.
There's no political motive here, I doubt any of them are engaging with a politician or media outlet explaining their objectives.

Plenty of them in every part of Ireland. They should be arrested for vandalism and that's it. No sense giving them a platform. The NI protocol is the excuse, not the reason.

By the end of the summer you'll see how isolated they and those who cheer them on are.

The vast majority of Unionists want no truck with this.

briany

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I honestly don't think they're capable.

Then they're screwed in terms of being the main political force.

igCorcaigh

Padre_Pio wrote: »

These lads aren't loyalists or paramilitaries.
They're just a bunch of d*ckheads looking for an excuse to riot.
There's no political motive here, I doubt any of them are engaging with a politician or media outlet explaining their objectives.

Plenty of them in every part of Ireland. They should be arrested for vandalism and that's it. No sense giving them a platform. The NI protocol is the excuse, not the reason.

No. Bad analysis.

These kids were directed to go onto the streets by senior figures.
The kids are used.
This is how it works.

It's political.

Padre_Pio

igCorcaigh wrote: »

No. Bad analysis.

These kids were directed to go onto the streets by senior figures.
The kids are used.
This is how it works.

It's political.

What senior figures? Who are these people in the shadows?
What's their goal?

Haven't seen a manifesto in the news.

J Mysterio

The DUP stirred up this trouble by meeting with paramilitaries, and having them repudiate the GFA.

It's actually astounding how shortsighted and ignorant they are. They have literally said and done the absolute worst thing possible at every juncture.

Zebra3

Padre_Pio wrote: »

What senior figures? Who are these people in the shadows?
What's their goal?

Haven't seen a manifesto in the news.

If you read the thread you’d know the UDA had a load of drugs seized and are using the current situation to send kids out to take revenge on the police.

Kermit.de.frog

Weren't some of their drugs siezed at the ports in recent weeks?

That's fairly ironic connected or not.

coolbeans

BanditLuke wrote: »

Bye bye Loyalists. Head back to the mainland your time is up.

Reported. We're better than that

steddyeddy

What amazes me most is the lack of insight the loyalists have as to who is their main opposition. I lived in England and very few of those living there wants to keep Northern Ireland in the UK. Official polls even show that the British people who supported Brexit would rather Brexit happened than keep Northern Ireland in the union if the choice presented itself.

Now Boris Johnson used the DUP, signed a bill into law which meant an Irish sea border and yet the DUP still find it in themselves to say "Ireland" pushed this on us.

I realise they're in a difficult political position as they are in this predicament due to the actions of Westminster yet their raison d'être is to hate anything Irish. Still though, an occasional trip back into reality would do them the world of good.

Hamsterchops

steddyeddy wrote: »

I lived in England and very few of those living there wants to keep Northern Ireland in the UK.

You say few people living in England want to keep Northern Ireland in the UK, but with all due respect it's not up to them, as it's the majority of people actually living in NI who chose whether or not to remain within the UK (and not the people of England).

Same goes for Scotland, and I don't doubt that very few English people wish to keep Scotland withing the UK against their will.

Scotland may depart very soon, Northern Ireland may also leave shortly after? Although all this remains to be seen.

PS, Half the people of England think Southern Ireland is still part of the UK

Sunny Disposition

steddyeddy wrote: »

What amazes me most is the lack of insight the loyalists have as to who is their main opposition. I lived in England and very few of those living there wants to keep Northern Ireland in the UK. Official polls even show that the British people who supported Brexit would rather Brexit happened than keep Northern Ireland in the union if the choice presented itself.

Now Boris Johnson used the DUP, signed a bill into law which meant an Irish sea border and yet the DUP still find it in themselves to say "Ireland" pushed this on us.

I realise they're in a difficult political position as they are in this predicament due to the actions of Westminster yet their raison d'être is to hate anything Irish. Still though, an occasional trip back into reality would do them the world of good.

My sense is that the average English person voting
for Brexit couldn’t have cared less about an Irish border, certainly none of my friends or family there did. They don’t and won’t care, they’ve got Brexit, anything that happens in Ireland north or south is an irrelevance to them.

swampgas

steddyeddy wrote: »

I realise they're in a difficult political position as they are in this predicament due to the actions of Westminster yet their raison d'être is to hate anything Irish. Still though, an occasional trip back into reality would do them the world of good.

This is all too common through. For a long time a lot of Irish people defined themselves (in part) as "not British", and a lot of Brexiteers defined themselves as "not European", well maybe more specifically as "not German" and "not French". These beliefs don't change easily - we need new crutches for our sense of identity before we can discard any old ones.

The DUP have been in "not Irish, not Catholic" mode forever, it's what they are. They liked Brexit because the further the UK diverged from the EU the further it was diverging from Ireland, and if that endangered the GFA (which they hate as it forces them to cooperate with their sworn enemy) then all the better. They don't seem to have anything else they can use to define themselves. If we Irish didn't exist they would have to invent us to give them something with which to terrify their children.

No matter how badly the Tories mistreat and betray them, they will suck it up because the alternative is to admit that maybe their old enemy isn't so bad after all. And that's thinking the unthinkable.

RandomViewer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By the end of the summer you'll see how isolated they and those who cheer them on are.

The vast majority of Unionists want no truck with this.

They are Arlene's flying monkeys, Campbell could condemn them without digging at FF,

blanch152

swampgas wrote: »

This is all too common through. For a long time a lot of Irish people defined themselves (in part) as "not British", and a lot of Brexiteers defined themselves as "not European", well maybe more specifically as "not German" and "not French". These beliefs don't change easily - we need new crutches for our sense of identity before we can discard any old ones.

The DUP have been in "not Irish, not Catholic" mode forever, it's what they are. They liked Brexit because the further the UK diverged from the EU the further it was diverging from Ireland, and if that endangered the GFA (which they hate as it forces them to cooperate with their sworn enemy) then all the better. They don't seem to have anything else they can use to define themselves. If we Irish didn't exist they would have to invent us to give them something with which to terrify their children.

No matter how badly the Tories mistreat and betray them, they will suck it up because the alternative is to admit that maybe their old enemy isn't so bad after all. And that's thinking the unthinkable.

Ultimately, the "not Irish, not Catholic" mode will run out of steam, which is where the gap for the Northern Irish identity will appear.

McMurphy

Posted this in the wrong thread a minute or two ago.

Anyone hear Nolan threatening to sue "Tim" earlier on BBC?

Your man completely and utterly owned him, Nolan clearly rattled by that, he was completely caught off-guard.

https://twitter.com/skullywagg/status/1379359141752401922?s=19

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By the end of the summer you'll see how isolated they and those who cheer them on are.

The vast majority of Unionists want no truck with this.

The vast majority of decent people never have any truck with those who resort to violent means to achieve political ends.

It is the same in this instant. The rioting is wrong, and must stop.

However, the two sectarian parties must grow up and learn to live with one another.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The vast majority of decent people never have any truck with those who resort to violent means to achieve political ends.

It is the same in this instant. The rioting is wrong, and must stop.

However, the two sectarian parties must grow up and learn to live with one another.

Unionism and those supporting it have to stop throwing the toys out of the pram whenever they don't get their way.

They have to realise that the veto is gone and that they have to negotiate the future with equals.
That is the basis of the GFA.

Triangle

blanch152 wrote: »

Ultimately, the "not Irish, not Catholic" mode will run out of steam, which is where the gap for the Northern Irish identity will appear.

Really, you honestly think that?

If that were the case, we wouldn't be singing ra songs in the pub post elections.

The North is still divided with historic bias. Just to a lesser degree, but it's still there on both sides.

FrancieBrady

Triangle wrote: »

Really, you honestly think that?

If that were the case, we wouldn't be singing ra songs in the pub post elections.

The North is still divided with historic bias. Just to a lesser degree, but it's still there on both sides.

Even the much vaunted 'Northern Irish' identity is divided. All it is, is a holding position. The majority are disillusioned Unionists withdrawing support for the 2 main Unionist parties because of disastrous leadership.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Posted this in the wrong thread a minute or two ago.

Anyone hear Nolan threatening to sue "Tim" earlier on BBC?

Your man completely and utterly owned him, Nolan clearly rattled by that, he was completely caught off-guard.

https://twitter.com/skullywagg/status/1379359141752401922?s=19

Nolan and the BBC editing out the segment apparently. Ridiculous what this guy is let away with really.

https://twitter.com/Sal_feeko/status/1379457225803059205

briany

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nolan and the BBC editing out the segment apparently. Ridiculous what this guy is let away with really.

I remember some years ago that Stephen Nolan appeared alongside Hector O Heochagain in a programme called Hector Breaks for the Border where Hector went up north for a week or whatever, and Stephen came down south for a week. Hector was Hector as usual, being overly enthusiastic and a bit annoying because of it. Nolan was a bit surprising in that he mentioned having never been down south before, and did not initially seem that enthused about visiting. He lightened up as his visit went on and there were times where he seemed to be enjoying himself, but I was surprised that he, as a supposedly educated journalist, had never ventured south of the border, as it were. Given that the Republic constitutes the much larger proportion of the island of Ireland, it takes a bit of doing never to venture beyond the confines of that quadrant in the north east, down to any other part. He apparently never even had any interest before. He tries to portray himself as unbiased, but it often is all too obvious where his sympathies lie.

O'Neill

briany wrote: »

I remember some years ago that Stephen Nolan appeared alongside Hector O Heochagain in a programme called Hector Breaks for the Border where Hector went up north for a week or whatever, and Stephen came down south for a week. Hector was Hector as usual, being overly enthusiastic and a bit annoying because of it. Nolan was a bit surprising in that he mentioned having never been down south before, and did not initially seem that enthused about visiting. He lightened up as his visit went on and there were times where he seemed to be enjoying himself, but I was surprised that he, as a supposedly educated journalist, had never ventured south of the border, as it were. Given that the Republic constitutes the much larger proportion of the island of Ireland, it takes a bit of doing never to venture beyond the confines of that quadrant in the north east, down to any other part. He apparently never even had any interest before. He tries to portray himself as unbiased, but it often is all too obvious where his sympathies lie.

Remember this nonsense? It was a surreal time and Nolan certainly did not help matters. It was like an episode of Jeremy Kyle.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nolan and the BBC editing out the segment apparently. Ridiculous what this guy is let away with really.

https://twitter.com/Sal_feeko/status/1379457225803059205

I'm delighted he gets called out on this. He is a provocateur who has the most extreme figures on his program on a weekly basis. He's certainly not unbiased either.

blanch152

briany wrote: »

I remember some years ago that Stephen Nolan appeared alongside Hector O Heochagain in a programme called Hector Breaks for the Border where Hector went up north for a week or whatever, and Stephen came down south for a week. Hector was Hector as usual, being overly enthusiastic and a bit annoying because of it. Nolan was a bit surprising in that he mentioned having never been down south before, and did not initially seem that enthused about visiting. He lightened up as his visit went on and there were times where he seemed to be enjoying himself, but I was surprised that he, as a supposedly educated journalist, had never ventured south of the border, as it were. Given that the Republic constitutes the much larger proportion of the island of Ireland, it takes a bit of doing never to venture beyond the confines of that quadrant in the north east, down to any other part. He apparently never even had any interest before. He tries to portray himself as unbiased, but it often is all too obvious where his sympathies lie.

Plenty of Spanish people have never been to Portugal, and vice versa. It isn't that unusual.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm delighted he gets called out on this. He is a provocateur who has the most extreme figures on his program on a weekly basis. He's certainly not unbiased either.

Stats are coming out on twitter, seems the caller was on the money. Heavily weighted in favour of Unionism. Allister has been on a quarter of the shows, when his party has 1 seat and 2.5% of the vote.
Questions for Nolan and the BBC's impartiality.

Seth Brundle

Listening to Arlene repeat calls for PSNI Chief Constable Simon Byrne to step down I wondered is he a Catholic and this possibly was another reason for her demand?

Zebra3

blanch152 wrote: »

Plenty of Spanish people have never been to Portugal, and vice versa. It isn't that unusual.

Yes, I’m shocked at the number of people from Valencia who have never been to Portugal what with it being right next door and all that.

Five Eighth

blanch152 wrote: »

Plenty of Spanish people have never been to Portugal, and vice versa. It isn't that unusual.

Do you not agree that it might be useful for a journalist to familiarise himself with the neighbouring jurisdiction that plays a massive part in the conversations and debates of his audience?

RandomViewer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stats are coming out on twitter, seems the caller was on the money. Heavily weighted in favour of Unionism. Allister has been on a quarter of the shows, when his party has 1 seat and 2.5% of the vote.
Questions for Nolan and the BBC's impartiality.

Always thought Nolan and Jim Allister were close

bilbot79

Any disturbances tonight?