The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Kieran Christie, general secretary of the ASTI: "It wouldn't take a massive climbdown on the part of the government to accommodate the teachers. We want common sense to prevail with a minor adjustment to the vaccination program that has to be done, and it will be done."

Not only reeking of entitlement, but belligerent in tone. The passive aggressive rhetoric of a powerful lobbyist used to getting his way, the government need to stare down these teaching unions and prioritise the older cohorts in orderly fashion.

Locotastic

Newbie20 wrote: »

If people were just reading comments from keyboard warriors like yourself, they would think that there was a ferocious anger out there. But actually having talked to people in real life, some people think teachers should get the vaccine, some don’t think they should but there aren’t too many “angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this”

Sorry if that doesn’t match up with the agenda you are pushing on any teacher related forum since March 2020

Can't say I've spoken to anyone who thinks teachers deserve to promote themselves to the top of the vaccination queue ahead of older folk where it might benefit the wider community.

Quite the opposite in fact, opinion of teachers must be rock bottom and this latest stunt is completely predictable behaviour, the icing on the cake.

I hope the unions accept that they aren't going to win this one and go have their tantrum elsewhere. People have bigger problems to be concerned about.

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kieran Christie, general secretary of the ASTI: "It wouldn't take a massive climbdown on the part of the government to accommodate the teachers. We want common sense to prevail with a minor adjustment to the vaccination program that has to be done, and it will be done."

Not only reeking of entitlement, but belligerent in tone. The passive aggressive rhetoric of a powerful lobbyist used to getting his way, the government need to stare down these teaching unions and prioritise the older cohorts in orderly fashion.

Where did he say that?

yabadabado

irishproduce wrote: »

I'd disagree with the thrust of that. I think teachers still have a high standing in society, especially secondary teachers and it's well.deserved too. They do a valuable job.
I think most people would have great time for their children's teachers.
It's when they get riled up as a group by the unions looking to stay relevant is when the problems arise.

I think people still have time for teachers in general but they no longer have as high a standing as they had in previous generations.
My granny was a teacher and was very highly educated compared to most other people in the area ,that is now long gone.

Teaching would be well down the list of top jobs compared to even 25 years ago.

Necro

Locotastic wrote: »

Maybe to teachers they do but very many of their fellow citizens will frown upon this behaviour. They've already been told the vaccine roll out won't be changed to facilitate them, so that's already been cleared up.

Plus the fact that all three unions had to join forces to 'campaign' for industrial action. Speaks volumes.

Parents and students have managed a lot on their own recently so I really don't think the threat of strike action invokes any real power any more, especially when it seems to be the default position, like a spoiled child stomping their feet.

You can bet people are angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this.

Newbie20 wrote: »

If people were just reading comments from keyboard warriors like yourself, they would think that there was a ferocious anger out there. But actually having talked to people in real life, some people think teachers should get the vaccine, some don’t think they should but there aren’t too many “angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this”

Sorry if that doesn’t match up with the agenda you are pushing on any teacher related forum since March 2020

Mod:

Ok folks can we dial it back a bit please, we can have a discussion without the need to get personal. Post in a civil manner or don't engage with each other, cheers.

Natterjack from Kerry

khalessi wrote: »

Doesn't matter what teachers think, frontline status was conferred by gov and removed by gov, moot point going by age now

'Frontline' means nothing. It is just a word drummed up by unions, as if they are like the first guys onto the Normandy beaches on Dday.

The government, responsibly taking the advice of the public healthcare professionals, did indeed change their position. As they should have, when a better solution is presented - exactly what we want from politicians for once. Instead of - 'well, we know its the wrong thing, be thats what we said we would do, so we are going to go ahead and do it anyway'.
The govt sticking to its guns on this one, not bending to the teachers (and others waiting to see how it pans out for them), but doing the right thing for 5 million people, will at least be something they have done correctly in their handling of the pandemic.

Teachers made to look a laughing stock only have themselves to blame, and highlights either how out of touch they are (I dont think so), or, how they are unable to control their unions (this is a failure of teachers - the 'I dont agree with it, but its the union you know' line is very weak).

Locotastic

Newbie20 wrote: »

As I said I’m talking about speaking to people face to face in real life. Not the kind of people ranting behind a keyboard that seem to be able to post all times of the day, any day of the week.

Ah don't worry, I speak to real people every day. I've gone out to work throughout.

Hope teachers aren't waiting too long coz I don't want to have to listen to ASTI and Co again come August. But I'd put money on there being some issue again and they'll be 'calling for' something or other.

"The motion brought by unions will seek to commit the unions to work together to demand vaccine prioritisation for teachers. Should that fail, the motion will mandate the unions to explore any and all options, up to and including industrial action,” the three unions said in a joint statement.

Demand?? Sheer arrogance of them, I think it displays an attitude of superiority on show for all to see.

Cork Lass

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

31 people in a room ,, from 31 different households 30 unmasked ,1 sink ( if that) for hand washing , poor cough hygiene absolutely no social distancing ,5 hours in a badly ventilated space, how is that not frontline ?

Your post is insulting to real frontline workers, you know - the doctors, nurses and care assistants who are treating covid cases for the last year. I'm not anti teacher but genuinely believe that teachers to not need to be prioritised.

Elliejo

Locotastic wrote: »

Ah don't worry, I speak to real people every day. I've gone out to work throughout.

Hope teachers aren't waiting too long coz I don't want to have to listen to ASTI and Co again come August. But I'd put money on there being some issue again and they'll be 'calling for' something or other.

"The motion brought by unions will seek to commit the unions to work together to demand vaccine prioritisation for teachers. Should that fail, the motion will mandate the unions to explore any and all options, up to and including industrial action,” the three unions said in a joint statement.

Demand?? Sheer arrogance of them, I think it displays an attitude of superiority on show for all to see.

Do tell us, in your work you go to every day - how many people are you in close contact with for 5+ hours at a time? Do they or can they social distance? Do they or can they practise good hygiene? Do you have facility to stay 2 metres away from your work colleagues? Can you adequately ventilate the space in which you work?

StupidLikeAFox

In an ideal world all the population would get the vaccine in the correct order for their needs. In the real world it is far too complex to define cohorts, validate the groups, decide on an order etc etc. Too many grey areas, much harder to police, too much hassle getting the data and organising the rollout and in the meantime the whole pandemic is getting dragged out longer than it has to

Age is the biggest risk factor and very easy for someone to prove. Just go by age and get everyone done as quick as possible.

StupidLikeAFox

Elliejo wrote: »

Do tell us, in your work you go to every day - how many people are you in close contact with for 5+ hours at a time? Do they or can they social distance? Do they or can they practise good hygiene? Do you have facility to stay 2 metres away from your work colleagues? Can you adequately ventilate the space in which you work?

Would you be happy to delay the vaccine rollout by a few months while we go through the exercise of defining which professions are more deserving than others, gathering the data, policing the rollout and all the complexities therein?

Elliejo

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Would you be happy to delay the vaccine rollout by a few months while we go through the exercise of defining which professions are more deserving than others, gathering the data, policing the rollout and all the complexities therein?

Ironically the new rollout will personally bring me well up the list as I am over 60. But some of my colleagues who are much younger will still face being slobbered over, sneezed on, bitten, scratched, have to toilet children etc. My husband who is also over 60, retired, meeting nobody other than myself for the most part, will also be high up the list. Now, who needs the vaccine more? Him or my work colleagues? I know it is a dilemma. To be honest, everyone deserves to get it and if I had confidence that it would be rolled out efficiently by age, I think that is the way to go. Unfortunately I don't have confidence that anything can be done efficiently so the people who have to deal with lot of others, I.e. healthcare workers, retail workers, gardai, bus drivers, taxi drivers, and yes even the much despised (on here anyway)teachers, SNAs and school staff etc should be vaccinated before those who can wfh or don't have to work in a public facing job.

Locotastic

Elliejo wrote: »

Do tell us, in your work you go to every day - how many people are you in close contact with for 5+ hours at a time? Do they or can they social distance? Do they or can they practise good hygiene? Do you have facility to stay 2 metres away from your work colleagues? Can you adequately ventilate the space in which you work?

Varies day to day
Sometimes
I presume so
No because not always possible (nature of the work)
I can open a window if that's what you mean.

And here I am a year later unscathed and not demanding a vaccine for me, myself and I. Its a miracle :P

BTW face being slobbered over, sneezed on, bitten, scratched, covid or not that sounds like a nightmare, good luck!

Elliejo

Locotastic wrote: »

Varies day to day
Sometimes
I presume so
No because not always possible (nature of the work)
I can open a window if that's what you mean.

And here I am a year later unscathed and not demanding a vaccine for me, myself and I. Its a miracle :P

BTW face being slobbered over, sneezed on, bitten, scratched, covid or not that sounds like a nightmare, good luck!

It's the reality of working with children with special needs.

Mrsmum

Two things convince me that by age is probably the best way to go at this stage. The first is NIAC have explained that a person aged 60-65 is seventy times more at risk from Covid than someone aged 30-35 years. That's a massive difference. The second is the very good explanation on this thread on the difficulties of working off databases for different professions and how that would only slow the whole rollout down. Speed is king now imho.

BPKS

The most sensible course of action is to fully vaccinate the teachers and SNAs during the summer holidays.

If they have to get vaccinated during school term then they will get a day off (x2) to get the jab and then take 3 or 4 days sick leave to recover.

Elliejo

BPKS wrote: »

The most sensible course of action is to fully vaccinate the teachers and SNAs during the summer holidays.

If they have to get vaccinated during school term then they will get a day off (x2) to get the jab and then take 3 or 4 days sick leave to recover.

Will you take a day off (x2) to get the jab and then take 3 or 4 days sick leave to recover when you are being vaccinated?

Locotastic

Elliejo wrote: »

It's the reality of working with children with special needs.

You have my utmost respect, difficult job but hugely important. Now if unions were to push for you guys to get the vaccine then I'd be right behind them.

There is a differentiation between special needs teachers, SNAs and mainstream only teachers when it comes to risk. That needs to be made, but I fear the usual suspects will drown out any sense on the matter.

Perhaps your union should request that special needs teachers and SNAs are recategorised as healthcare workers for the purposes of the rollout. If in carrying out your job you are in such close contact and providing personal care to students then I don't see why not.

ClutchIt

Elliejo wrote: »

Ironically the new rollout will personally bring me well up the list as I am over 60. But some of my colleagues who are much younger will still face being slobbered over, sneezed on, bitten, scratched, have to toilet children etc. My husband who is also over 60, retired, meeting nobody other than myself for the most part, will also be high up the list. Now, who needs the vaccine more? Him or my work colleagues? I know it is a dilemma. To be honest, everyone deserves to get it and if I had confidence that it would be rolled out efficiently by age, I think that is the way to go. Unfortunately I don't have confidence that anything can be done efficiently so the people who have to deal with lot of others, I.e. healthcare workers, retail workers, gardai, bus drivers, taxi drivers, and yes even the much despised (on here anyway)teachers, SNAs and school staff etc should be vaccinated before those who can wfh or don't have to work in a public facing job.

Easy. Your husband should be vaccinated first because he had a 70 times higher likelihood of being hospitalised.
You can't prioritise teachers over supermarket workers surely? Nowhere to draw the line. Age is best way. Feck the teacher unions.

Connacht15

I wonder how many of our much cherished teachers are pushing to be prioritized ahead of everybody else in the vaccine queue because with only a few weeks to their absurd level holidays, they will want to sly out of Belfast Airport to foreign destinations?

Connacht15

I remember a few years ago speaking to a Young Dutch man, who was a high school science teacher, he was earning around 25K a year which he was quite happy with especially when you factored in that he had around 8 weeks holidays and his wages would go up over time!
Now compare that to our lot!
And then factor in that in The West of Ireland, most teaching jobs, well those that are effectively full-time are got by relations of relations!
I would also ask you to reflect on your own school days and in my case I guarantee you the majority of the so called teachers were actually unable to teach!

Connacht15

Has Covid not shown us that the most important part of the second level educational set up is the socialization or if you prefer the societal brainwashing of children!
Were it not for that we could nearly survive on one teacher nationally per subject giving all lessons online as long as those 'teachers' could actually teach and we had decent broadband nationally!

Connacht15

Connacht15 wrote: »

I remember a few years ago speaking to a Young Dutch man, who was a high school science teacher, he was earning around 25K a year which he was quite happy with especially when you factored in that he had around 8 weeks holidays and his wages would go up over time!
Now compare that to our lot!
And then factor in that in The West of Ireland, most teaching jobs, well those that are effectively full-time are got by relations of relations!
I would also ask you to reflect on your own school days and in my case I guarantee you the majority of the so called teachers were actually unable to teach!

Not that this level of pubtalk anecdote merits refutation but i did a quick google there and there would seem little to no difference in starting salaries for teachers between ireland and the Netherlands, even if comparison across different economies was ever a valid idea (it isnt) or anecdotal, "everybody knows that..." information is worth a moment of anyone's time (it isnt) or that a post that leans very heavily on exclamation marks instead of facts might be full of inspired rhetoric and content (it wasnt)

Connacht15

Deleted User wrote: »

Not that this level of pubtalk anecdote merits refutation but i did a quick google there and there would seem little to no difference in starting salaries for teachers between ireland and the Netherlands, even if comparison across different economies was ever a valid idea (it isnt) or anecdotal, "everybody knows that..." information is worth a moment of anyone's time (it isnt) or that a post that leans very heavily on exclamation marks instead of facts might be full of inspired rhetoric and content (it wasnt)

Ah Dr Google is your only man!
I was told what I was told and have no reason to disbelieve it!
What of the holidays 8 weeks V 4.5 months?
And I suppose you will tell me next most of your teachers back in the day could teach?
The Salary The Dutch lad said he was earning and the holidays probably aren't far of those in England for a similar job!
In France an experienced high school teacher is probably on 30-35K max!

Wanderer78

It's funny since the deunionisation of the private sector, we ve experienced a rapid rise in precarious employment and productivity, and wage inflation has remained relatively low, always find that fascinating!

suicide_circus

Did any other cohort of frontline workers spend as much time on the frontlines of Zoom over the last year?

ectoraige

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Its more to do with transmission than anything else. A secondary teacher might be interacting with 200 students a day, so 200 households. One teacher could a superspreader event. They could cause thousands of cases from a single day of working with covid.

The hell it is. Secondary school teachers weren't going to be vaccinated by the end of term so why would they have been going back if that was their concern.

Lillyfae

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's funny since the deunionisation of the private sector, we ve experienced a rapid rise in precarious employment and productivity, and wage inflation has remained relatively low, always find that fascinating!

What does SIPTU do?

Dempo1

suicide_circus wrote: »

Did any other cohort of frontline workers spend as much time on the frontlines of Zoom over the last year?

Would the fact a certain cohort who's on Zoom so much, not suggest they would not be prioritised?

I get teachers feeling aggrieved but Teacher representative organisations are not at all helping the cause of their members. ISME now joining the argument and quite clearing rejecting calls by teacher organisations for prioritisation.

A quick glance a a few polls on various sites, suggest Teacher representative organisations have very little support from the general public and I have to say, the INTO"s use of the word dishonorable was shocking and disgraceful in its discription of the Governments new vacinne roll out plan.

Where does prioritising end, Retail, Meat Plants, Distribution warehouse workers, etc etc.

The most bizzare aspect of the Teachers representative organisation argument is we've been constantly told how safe schools are? Are Teacher representative organisations by default suggesting they are not?? Which is it, I'm certainly confused.

I'm afraid from a PR perspective, Teacher Unions have shot themselves in the foot and I can not see a U TURN on this.

Larsso30

I do think alot of this is coming from unions, not the teachers themselves. Certainly any I know just want to be back teaching, not zoom or any other thing they done for younger classes.