The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Valhallapt

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

31 people in a room ,, from 31 different households 30 unmasked ,1 sink ( if that) for hand washing , poor cough hygiene absolutely no social distancing ,5 hours in a badly ventilated space, how is that not frontline ?

Problem here is you don’t work 5 hours a day, 5 days a week.

The absolute maximum is 22 hours per week, although to get near that maximum you would have to not teach on the junior cert cycle, and hold no posts or any other allowances. It would be highly unusual for a teachers classroom time to average over 4 hours per day.

Lillyfae

Larsso30 wrote: »

I do think alot of this is coming from unions, not the teachers themselves. Certainly any I know just want to be back teaching, not zoom or any other thing they done for younger classes.

I appreciate that and I do feel for you. It's just hard to believe that it's just the unions when so many teachers on here are doggedly defending the union stance, no matter what it is, and attacking anyone else for disagreeing.

Figerty

Dempo1 wrote: »

Would the fact a certain cohort who's on Zoom so much, not suggest they would not be prioritised?

I get teachers feeling aggrieved but Teacher representative organisations are not at all helping the cause of their members. ISME now joining the argument and quite clearing rejecting calls by teacher organisations for prioritisation.

A quick glance a a few polls on various sites, suggest Teacher representative organisations have very little support from the general public and I have to say, the INTO"s use of the word dishonorable was shocking and disgraceful in its discription of the Governments new vacinne roll out plan.

Where does prioritising end, Retail, Meat Plants, Distribution warehouse workers, etc etc.

The most bizzare aspect of the Teachers representative organisation argument is we've been constantly told how safe schools are? Are Teacher representative organisations by default suggesting they are not?? Which is it, I'm certainly confused.

I'm afraid from a PR perspective, Teacher Unions have shot themselves in the foot and I can not see a U TURN on this.

Schools are safe?? That's government spin. It was going out of control before Christmas. Unions are not about PR, if you want to go down the PR route, then join ISME.

Dempo1

Figerty wrote: »

Schools are safe?? That's government spin. It was going out of control before Christmas. Unions are not about PR, if you want to go down the PR route, then join ISME.

Re my post again, I asked are schools safe and if so why are Teacher representative organisations pushing for prioritisation, they seemed to have accepted government spin by returning to work, now they seem to think its not safe to do so?

Re PR, my point is the Publics perception of this debacle is quite clear, there is Zero support for what Teacher representative organisations are pushing for, ultimately its that lack of that support that will decide its outcome.

Kivaro

Looks like Sinn Fein is chasing the teacher vote for the next General Election when they publicly announced this morning on the RTE news at 7 am that they support the teachers in their quest to get the vaccine over older segments of our population. Of course it flies in the face of medical and scientific advice, but Sinn Fein wants professions over age in the vaccination rollout.

Listening to teacher union reps over the last few days, we keep hearing the words "demands" and "demanding". The government "needs to meet our demands" was the announcement from INTO's John Doyle yesterday, which is an odd way to seek a conversation about a particular issue. Some words that I have heard in response to these demands are petulance, unreasonable etc., but the word I would use is embarrassing. Is there any other country in the world where teachers are seeking (demanding) that they get vaccinated before older (and more at risk) groups of the population?

Valhallapt

Kivaro wrote: »

Looks like Sinn Fein is chasing the teacher vote for the next General Election when they publicly announced this morning on the RTE news at 7 am that they support the teachers in their quest to get the vaccine over older segments of our population. Of course it flies in the face of medical and scientific advice, but Sinn Fein wants professions over age in the vaccination rollout.

Listening to teacher union reps over the last few days, we keep hearing the words "demands" and "demanding". The government "needs to meet our demands" was the announcement from INTO's John Doyle yesterday, which is an odd way to seek a conversation about a particular issue. Some words that I have heard in response to these demands are petulance, unreasonable etc., but the word I would use is embarrassing. Is there any other country in the world where teachers are seeking (demanding) that they get vaccinated before older (and more at risk) groups of the population?

I was starting to lean towards voting SF for the first time ever. I won’t if they plan to become like Berties FF and give in to teachers in the face of medical advice.

Lillyfae

Kivaro wrote: »

Is there any other country in the world where teachers are seeking (demanding) that they get vaccinated before older (and more at risk) groups of the population?

I don't know of one. I think it was mentioned once here as an idea but we'll be going with age after the most vulnerable/ at risk have been vaccinated soon as well.

I will say it's quite funny though, a few weeks ago all the children in my childs class had to go into quarantine because the teacher tested positive. Even children who had only just started 2 days previously. 5 days later they were all tested- not a single positive test in the class.

I don't understand the teachers unions on this.
They will be on holidays soon enough anyway, and then vaccinated before September.
Don't understand their problem

Valhallapt

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't understand the teachers unions on this.
They will be on holidays soon enough anyway, and then vaccinated before September.
Don't understand their problem

Superiority complex.

Larsso30

Kivaro wrote: »

Looks like Sinn Fein is chasing the teacher vote for the next General Election when they publicly announced this morning on the RTE news at 7 am that they support the teachers in their quest to get the vaccine over older segments of our population. Of course it flies in the face of medical and scientific advice, but Sinn Fein wants professions over age in the vaccination rollout.

Listening to teacher union reps over the last few days, we keep hearing the words "demands" and "demanding". The government "needs to meet our demands" was the announcement from INTO's John Doyle yesterday, which is an odd way to seek a conversation about a particular issue. Some words that I have heard in response to these demands are petulance, unreasonable etc., but the word I would use is embarrassing. Is there any other country in the world where teachers are seeking (demanding) that they get vaccinated before older (and more at risk) groups of the population?

Did sinn fein vaccinate the teachers up north first?

medi_bai

picturehangup wrote: »

Just to put this into some context.
I am a 55 year old teacher, working in a secondary school. I come into contact with approx 100 students per day at the very least.

I was unfortunate to contract covid at work last Christmas, along with three others of my colleagues around the same time. I was very sick, but recovered well enough to continue online teaching a full timetable in January. Two of my colleagues were not so fortunate, and were hospitalised, although they were younger than I.

There is no way I wish to contract this horrible thing again, or any other potentially more harmful variant, as I might not be so lucky the next time, given that I suffer asthma. My husband is a cancer survivor, and miraculously he did not catch it from me on THIS OCCASION. I do not want this again, and I would like to be vaccinated NOW. Enough is enough, and the unions are quite justified in their pursuit of the vaccine for their members. Two metre rules, etc... it just doesn't happen in a real class situation, kids won't wear masks properly, we are sitting ducks, as proven.

So.. back off, please.

Yourself and two of your colleagues got sick?

May I ask how many students were part of this outbreak? It must have been the children spreading it. Not the gathered hoardes in the teachers break room.

lulublue22

medi_bai wrote: »

Yourself and two of your colleagues got sick?

May I ask how many students were part of this outbreak? It must have been the children spreading it. Not the gathered hoardes in the teachers break room.

Staffrooms are either closed ( friends school) or limited in numbers - ours is 8 in the staffroom. Ironically the staffroom is the only place in our school where 2 m SD can actually be done due to limit on numbers to maximise the space.

ETA - breaks are also staggered and a number if staff prefer to sit in their car for breaks.

Any school I know is doing trojan work around trying to enforce and maintain covid procedures in schools often in very very tricky circumstances but obviously that narrative doesn’t suit the keyboard warriors !

Are they all voting today? How soon after voting do the results come back?

Wanderer78

Lillyfae wrote: »

What does SIPTU do?

not as much as it use to, overall, unionization has been falling in both the public and private sector, more so in the private, leading to as previous mentioned

ax530

Do 'the unions' work as teachers also or is it a full time job being 'a union', as read some things saying the unions want this not the teachers. So are there a select few union people who come up with this and then the teacher members vote ?
will be interesting to then see the days the teachers unions choose to strike no doubt they will be around a bank holiday or another break.

Jinglejangle69

Will creche workers get the vaccine if teachers do?

Elliejo

ClutchIt wrote: »

Easy. Your husband should be vaccinated first because he had a 70 times higher likelihood of being hospitalised.
You can't prioritise teachers over supermarket workers surely? Nowhere to draw the line. Age is best way. Feck the teacher unions.

Last time I checked supermarket workers were retail workers, which was the second group I mentioned, after health care workers. I am not a teacher, nor am I a member of a union. I just happen to work in a school, which for many posters here, seems to bring down a red mist, leaving them incapable of reading a post in detail before spewing the usual vitriol.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't know of one. I think it was mentioned once here as an idea but we'll be going with age after the most vulnerable/ at risk have been vaccinated soon as well.

I will say it's quite funny though, a few weeks ago all the children in my childs class had to go into quarantine because the teacher tested positive. Even children who had only just started 2 days previously. 5 days later they were all tested- not a single positive test in the class.

Are the safety mitigations the same in Holland or did you move home?

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Will creche workers get the vaccine if teachers do?

Crèche workers and teachers who are in the same age bracket will get the vaccine at the same time. Same as the school caretaker, secretary and cleaner that’s the same age.

There should be no backing down on this whether or not the teachers strike.

Jinglejangle69

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Crèche workers and teachers who are in the same age bracket will get the vaccine at the same time. Same as the school caretaker, secretary and cleaner that’s the same age.

They’re should be no backing down on this whether or not the teachers strike.

Agree.

Benicetomonty

ax530 wrote: »

Do 'the unions' work as teachers also or is it a full time job being 'a union', as read some things saying the unions want this not the teachers. So are there a select few union people who come up with this and then the teacher members vote ?
will be interesting to then see the days the teachers unions choose to strike no doubt they will be around a bank holiday or another break.

A small handful of people, in ASTI at least are on Standing Committees in a permanent capacity. The president is out of the classroom for a year, then back in. The majority are classroom teachers. They get a day or two every month to attend meetings etc. The subbing is covered by the union. Decisions are debated by the CEC, which consists of 180 regular, full time teachers.

A strike on this issue, should it take place (and I highly doubt it will), will take place on a regular work day. Withdrawing your labour on a designated holiday is not a strike.

BanditLuke

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

31 people in a room ,, from 31 different households 30 unmasked ,1 sink ( if that) for hand washing , poor cough hygiene absolutely no social distancing ,5 hours in a badly ventilated space, how is that not frontline ?

It's absolutely frontline. Every single teacher is risking their life and must be vaccinated asap. The unions must hold the line and not back down.

yabadabado

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's absolutely frontline. Every single teacher is risking their life and must be vaccinated asap. The unions must hold the line and not back down.

If schools are that dangerous ,the union's really messed up by letting their members return in the first place.

khalessi

yabadabado wrote: »

If schools are that dangerous ,the union's really messed up by letting their members return in the first place.

Dr. Luke O Neill stating yesterday teachers 1.9 times more likely to get Covid and special needs teachers 3 times more likely to get Covid then general public. These stats have been around a while, results of a UK study and ONS IIRC, and he admits teachers are at risk.

There will be no change to vaccine roll out, but if the weather gets better we can try moving whole school outside because according to him, a 19 fold less chance of catching it outdoors, he was saying that last Sept/Oct too. Not sure how we will fit nearly a 1000 kids out doors but hey.

Treppen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Will creche workers get the vaccine if teachers do?

Who knows, it's up to the government.

Treppen

ax530 wrote: »

Do 'the unions' work as teachers also or is it a full time job being 'a union', as read some things saying the unions want this not the teachers. So are there a select few union people who come up with this and then the teacher members vote ?
will be interesting to then see the days the teachers unions choose to strike no doubt they will be around a bank holiday or another break.

Well with the ASTI, members raise issues, Union leaders surgery all members. They then ask members to ballot on action.
So it's down to teachers really as they are the Union.

khalessi

Just curious, the anti teacher sentiment that is seen here about teachers asking for the vaccinations, does that cover those who have already have been vaccinated in their 30s and 40s who work at home and are not facing the public under the HSE banner or are they grand, despite skipping queue and taking vaccines away from the more vunerable?

Elliejo

khalessi wrote: »

Dr. Luke O Neill stating yesterday teachers 1.9 times more likely to get Covid and special needs teachers 3 times more likely to get Covid then general public. These stats have been around a while, results of a UK study and ONS IIRC, and he admits teachers are at risk.

There will be no change to vaccine roll out, but if the weather gets better we can try moving whole school outside because according to him, a 19 fold less chance of catching it outdoors, he was saying that last Sept/Oct too. Not sure how we will fit nearly a 1000 kids out doors but hey.

I reckon I will be very fit by the time the summer holidays come around if we had to move outside! Four flight risks, all who can move very fast when the mood strikes. Difficult enough to keep at a desk indoors for more than 5 minutes. And that doesn't take into account the other children in the class plus those in the other five classes and all the mainstream pupils as well.

meeeeh

khalessi wrote: »

Dr. Luke O Neill stating yesterday teachers 1.9 times more likely to get Covid and special needs teachers 3 times more likely to get Covid then general public. These stats have been around a while, results of a UK study and ONS IIRC, and he admits teachers are at risk.

So if 30 year old teacher is 2 or 3 times more likely to get Covid it is still a lot less at risk from a severe consequences as a 60 year old from general population. 60 years old teachers will be vaccinated with other 60 year olds. Unless you want to set really narrow at risk groups where you calculate age and profession risk and rank people accordingly (unworkable and too cumbersome in my opinion) the age based vaccination will save more lives and it's faster.

It's not anti teacher or any other anti sentiment it's maths. Abuses of system happened and will happen. It's not nice to see them but in my opinion using up all the vaccines and speed trumps fairness. It's a poor reflection on individuals who abused the system.

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

So if 30 year old teacher is 2 or 3 times more likely to get Covid it is still a lot less at risk from a severe consequences as a 60 year old from general population (60 years old teachers will be vaccinated with other 60 year olds).

But more of a risk if the 60 year old is wfh. 25% of teachers in UK with Long Covid second highest profession after HCWs; 122,000 HCW and 114,000 School staff, hopefully won't happen here as we would be screwed with the lack of subs