The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

BettyS

BettyS wrote: »

I wonder what the students will think of their teachers?

How will science teachers explain this to their pupils?

khalessi

BettyS wrote: »

I wonder what the students will think of their teachers?

I teach 6th and they have been questioning this since the beginning. Their chairs are knocking off one another, so they have commented on lack of social distancing and want to know why they arent wearing masks, so we told them anyone who wants to can and some of them do. They laugh at the chain that is around the teachers desk as it is supposed to be some magical barrier stopping covid but kids know that it spreads in the air. Some have said to me they hope we are vaccinated sooner as it will be safer. I just reassure them tell, make a joke and move on.

They arent stupid their day is not normal and they know the risks. I constantly tell them f they ask it is a small risk though they all know someone who has caught it whether classmate or family member. Some them have had family hospitalised and a few have family with long covid which worries them.

Natterjack from Kerry

Have teachers acknowledged how being out of the classroom for 2 or 3 of the next 6 months dramatically cuts their risk, below workers who will likely only have a couple of weeks off in the same period?

JimmyVik

I walk past the local primary school every day and can see right in the windows as they are right beside the footpath.
I can say that I for one would not be at all comfortable working in those classrooms.

Now, to be fair im not someone who has unresolved issues from being in school, so i may not be as outraged as some when it comes to being cooll with teachers getting vaccines. But I do think that anyone in a job where they have to be in a small room with lots of people all day, or even in a job where you have to be in the faces of people like the gardai, should definitely be vaccinated asap. Either that or put up screens between teachers, SNAs and the pupils, and never pass the screens. Not possible with the gardai though.

For Forks Sake

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Have teachers acknowledged how being out of the classroom for 2 or 3 of the next 6 months dramatically cuts their risk, below workers who will likely only have a couple of weeks off in the same period?

That would be to credit them with self-awareness. So no.

Lillyfae

Lillyfae wrote: »

I wouldn't read into it too much. It could have been the famous double booking, or people refusing vaccines. I've no problem with local special schools teachers, SNAs etc being on backup lists.

Yeah maybe so, just had a raised eyebrow with the the fact they knew 4 days out they'd need more sleeves rolled up and choose these guys given the recent episodes.

markodaly

MrMusician18 wrote: »

But teachers will, along with the rest of the population hopefully be vaccinated before September. Are they really going to strike after the issue is effectively resolved?

Looks like they've realised they've embarrassed themselves and greatly overestimated the amount of public support they have for their stance and will hope this will be quietly forgotten.

I don't understand their logic. Even if the old regime was in place, we are only at cohort 4 today, and wouldn't be getting to them for a month or two, by the time they are fully vaccinated, they are on their holidays...

Yet, now they want to be pushed up the list and be vaccinated in time for their holidays. Maybe they are thinking ahead that they will get that vaccine passport and be allowed to jet off to Spain or Greece, while everyone else has to wait their turn.


But but but... unions are 'just' advocating for their members, am I right? :rolleyes:

Sunny Disposition

This is really outrageous, they are looking for special treatment essentially on the grounds they are part of the public sector. Many private sector workers have to face the exact same issues of being in crowded environments. Government have no choice but to face them down.

Lots of teachers on the radio this morning embarrassed by their Unions schenanigans.

For Forks Sake

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of teachers on the radio this morning embarrassed by their Unions schenanigans.

Well let them do something about it, they are literally (through their union subs) paying for these people to embarrass them in public.

For Forks Sake

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Well let them do something about it, they are literally (through their union subs) paying for these people to embarrass them in public.

I agree. I said on the thread in the covid forum that all those teachers opposed to this should take out a full page ad in the papers stating that they’re not in agreement with this.

They need to stand up to the unions.

meeeeh

Lillyfae wrote: »

I wouldn't read into it too much. It could have been the famous double booking, or people refusing vaccines. I've no problem with local special schools teachers, SNAs etc being on backup lists.

I would go even further and say that it's good to have some organisations not individuals on the list. In that way an overcapacity of let's say 200 can be filled quickly, when there are only few vaccines you can call individuals on the list.

Anyway apparently the priority list was wrong but I think Garda Stations or schools or meat factories should be on the reserve list just in case as long as the system is not abused.

facehugger99

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

This is really outrageous, they are looking for special treatment essentially on the grounds they are part of the public sector. Many private sector workers have to face the exact same issues of being in crowded environments. Government have no choice but to face them down.

An easy win for the Government - the teachers have provided them with an open goal and even they can't mess this up.

Anyone I've spoken to today is shocked/outraged at the teachers. The Government can portray themselves as standing up the the Unions with almost unanimous public-backing.

The teachers will have gained nothing, absolutely nothing from this fiasco and will have lost a massive amount of public respect.

It is a comically stupid thing to do.

PhilOssophy

No point teachers being outraged on the radio - if there's enough outrage, vote no and end this madness. Or leave the union, pass the picket line and show up for work.

ectoraige

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

31 people in a room ,, from 31 different households 30 unmasked ,1 sink ( if that) for hand washing , poor cough hygiene absolutely no social distancing ,5 hours in a badly ventilated space, how is that not frontline ?

Because none of those people are meant to be there if they or their family have symptoms.

Are you pushing nasal swabs up peoples noses scraping tissue from the back of their throats?
Are you cleaning the faeces from the bedridden while turning them to help them breathe?
Are you waiting in the back of an ambulance with somebody gasping for air because there's no space available in the hospital?

The frontline are the people treating the ill, knowing the people in front of them are infectious, and hopng they don't contract it themselves.

Everybody else may be doing important work, but during a pandemic every interaction you have with another person is a risk, that's simply how it is.

If nobody with COVID or in isolation are meant to be in your workplace, it's not frontline.

The fact that schools, unlike supermarkets, have been able to close shows that, not only are they not frontline, they aren't essential either during a pandemic. They are crucial in normal society, but we're not there yet.

Maybe we can stand outside our doors this evening and give the teachers a round of applause, would that help?

JimmyVik

ectoraige wrote: »

Because none of those people are meant to be there if they or their family have symptoms.

Are you pushing nasal swabs up peoples noses scraping tissue from the back of their throats?
Are you cleaning the faeces from the bedridden while turning them to help them breathe?
Are you waiting in the back of an ambulance with somebody gasping for air because there's no space available in the hospital?

The frontline are the people treating the ill, knowing the people in front of them are infectious, and hopng they don't contract it themselves.

Everybody else may be doing important work, but during a pandemic every interaction you have with another person is a risk, that's simply how it is.

If nobody with COVID or in isolation are meant to be in your workplace, it's not frontline.

The fact that schools, unlike supermarkets, have been able to close shows that, not only are they not frontline, they aren't essential either during a pandemic. They are crucial in normal society, but we're not there yet.

Maybe we can stand outside our doors this evening and give the teachers a round of applause, would that help?

Close the schools. Let the teachers go back to the mind numbing work from home carry on that the rest of us have to do

Treppen

facehugger99 wrote: »

An easy win for the Government - the teachers have provided them with an open goal and even they can't mess this up.

Anyone I've spoken to today is shocked/outraged at the teachers. The Government can portray themselves as standing up the the Unions with almost unanimous public-backing.

The teachers will have gained nothing, absolutely nothing from this fiasco and will have lost a massive amount of public respect.

It is a comically stupid thing to do.

Another comically stupid thing to do is to rely on public respect to further your position.

Bicyclette

I have a neighbour who is a teacher. This person has had people in and out of their house from the start of the pandemic. Workmen at a time when everything was supposed to be shut down. Family, friends etc. Meanwhile the rest of us are shielding. waiting cautiously for the vaccine.

Again, why should this person, who clearly isn't worried about transmission, jump over people who are much higher risk and who have been living very restricted lives since March 2020?

Bicyclette

Bicyclette wrote: »

Again, why should this person, who clearly isn't worried about transmission, jump over people who are much higher risk and who have been living very restricted lives since March 2020?

Bubbaclaus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Never has a Father Ted meme been so apt

JimmyVik

Bicyclette wrote: »

I have a neighbour who is a teacher. This person has had people in and out of their house from the start of the pandemic. Workmen at a time when everything was supposed to be shut down. Family, friends etc. Meanwhile the rest of us are shielding. waiting cautiously for the vaccine.

Again, why should this person, who clearly isn't worried about transmission, jump over people who are much higher risk and who have been living very restricted lives since March 2020?

I reckon thats more that they are hardened up to the pandemic thing simply by being around people closely all day every day.
Its the same for gardai. I know a couple of them and they arent in the least bothered about catching the virus. They say they are more likely to catch it at work than out of work because they are 100 times closer to more people for longer. So hanging around a few people out of work is small potatoes.

Neyite

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from passing it to others. It prevents you from a bad enough dose to land you in ICU or dying from it.

Since vaccines aren't yet approved for under 16s, it changes next to nothing for the teachers in terms of transmission within their classrooms. It changes next to nothing in terms of safety of the at-risk family members of that teacher who is still awaiting their vaccine who the teacher could bring it home to.

It only changes that young and healthy teachers would be vaccinated ahead of the sick and vulnerable in our society and while I've been supportive of teachers being fecked around by Norma Foley during this pandemic, I can't be anything but critical of this demand.

Str8outtaWuhan

Neyite wrote: »

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from passing it to others. It prevents you from a bad enough dose to land you in ICU or dying from it.

Since vaccines aren't yet approved for under 16s, it changes next to nothing for the teachers in terms of transmission within their classrooms. It changes next to nothing in terms of safety of the at-risk family members of that teacher who is still awaiting their vaccine who the teacher could bring it home to.

It only changes that young and healthy teachers would be vaccinated ahead of the sick and vulnerable in our society and while I've been supportive of teachers being fecked around by Norma Foley during this pandemic, I can't be anything but critical of this demand.

Proof? that's a bold statement to put out there

Quin_Dub

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Proof? that's a bold statement to put out there

Any number of studies show that the vaccine doesn't prevent you from being a "carrier" , it just stops you from being infected and getting sick.

Multiple links to articles on the topic here

Neyite

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Proof? that's a bold statement to put out there

BBC report: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210203-why-vaccinated-people-may-still-be-able-to-spread-covid-19

"In the case of Covid-19, neutralising antibodies that recognise the virus bind to the spike protein on its surface, which it uses to enter cells. To achieve sterilising immunity, vaccines must stimulate enough of these antibodies to catch any virus particles entering the body and immediately disarm them.


What type of immunity do the Covid-19 vaccines provide?
"In a nutshell we don't know, because they’re too new," says Neal.
So far, the available Covid-19 vaccines have not been judged primarily on their ability to prevent transmission – though this is now being evaluated as a secondary endpoint for many of them. Instead, their efficacy was assessed by whether they could prevent symptoms from developing. "This means that we set our targets kind of pragmatically," says Danny Altmann, professor of immunology at Imperial College London."

Neyite

Neyite wrote: »

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from passing it to others. It prevents you from a bad enough dose to land you in ICU or dying from it.

It greatly reduces the chance of the virus living in your nasal passage and the effect of which is to greatly reduce the risk of you passing it to others

Beasty

Luke O'Neil said on the radio the other day that evidence was building that the vaccines do help prevent spread.

Of course studies are ongoing but the science does appear to be pointing that way

Neyite

Neyite wrote: »

BBC report: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210203-why-vaccinated-people-may-still-be-able-to-spread-covid-19

"In the case of Covid-19, neutralising antibodies that recognise the virus bind to the spike protein on its surface, which it uses to enter cells. To achieve sterilising immunity, vaccines must stimulate enough of these antibodies to catch any virus particles entering the body and immediately disarm them.


What type of immunity do the Covid-19 vaccines provide?
"In a nutshell we don't know, because they’re too new," says Neal.
So far, the available Covid-19 vaccines have not been judged primarily on their ability to prevent transmission – though this is now being evaluated as a secondary endpoint for many of them. Instead, their efficacy was assessed by whether they could prevent symptoms from developing. "This means that we set our targets kind of pragmatically," says Danny Altmann, professor of immunology at Imperial College London."

None of these are proof that the vaccines are not sterilising vaccines, just that it’s not certain yet. Most vaccines aren’t fully sterilising, by the way, but they reduce the level of infection to the extent that people feel nothing. Tests would show an infection though.

For most flu type outbreaks where we are testing actually visibly sick people , and not close contacts that’s about the same thing. In the covid era we are doing lots more tests.

Neyite

Deleted User wrote: »

It greatly reduces the chance of the virus living in your nasal passage and the effect of which is to greatly reduce the risk of you passing it to others

Do you have a link to that please?

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Luke O'Neil said on the radio the other day that evidence was building that the vaccines do help prevent spread.

Of course studies are ongoing but the science does appear to be pointing that way

They don’t have to be fully sterilising to prevent spread.

Here, from Israel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-israel-vaccine-int-idUSKBN2AJ08J

Data analysis in a study by the Israeli Health Ministry and Pfizer Inc found the Pfizer vaccine developed with Germany’s BioNTech reduces infection, including in asymptomatic cases, by 89.4% and in syptomatic cases by 93.7%.