The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Beasty

yabadabado wrote: »

It's expected 80 per cent of people, will have been offered the first dose by the end of June .

If thats the case I cannot see why all teachers wouldnt have at least one dose gotten before starting back to school and ideally they would have first dose gotten by start of August.

Most will have their vaccinations by reference to age by the new school year anyway. We are probably only talking those at the very youngest end of the age profile who's risks from this virus are incredibly low (certainly in comparison to 64 year olds)

Another argument is teachers should look to be getting their vaccinations with the second dose in August (the first dose alone provides something like 80% protection), as no-one yet knows how long protection lasts. That way they can see through more of the school year before the requirement for any booster.

The real issue by the new school year is if we are not in a position to vaccinate school children. Hopefully we will be, but if not then at that stage schools can become "breeding grounds" for the virus. There will still be many adults not vaccinated , be it by age, choice or other conditions preventing them getting it. An outbreak at a school could still have significant impacts on a local community.

Seaandwind

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Pension, paid holidays, life contract.

These are part of what we signed up to when we decided to be a teacher/public sector? It is a decision anyone can make.

I don’t think the fact I have a pension should make me less entitled to a vaccine or be mentioned in a discussion to do with it. This might not be your argument but it was said to me twice this week in other situations so there seems to be some issue with it - ‘sure you have a grand job, a pension’, - what has a pension got to do with it? It was not the reason I signed up for my job, it just came with this. I could go into public sector pension argument but I won’t, us Post 2013 graduates are not on the nice gravy train of the past! .

It took me 8 years to get my ‘life contract’. I signed up for that slog. It takes some people many more.

political analyst

It is very likely that every adult over 20 will have received at least one dose of a vaccine (whether the vaccine each person receives is double-dose or single-dose) and that most of them will be fully vaccinated by the end of August. Therefore, the strike threat is turn out to be moot.

Seaandwind

political analyst wrote: »

It is very likely that every adult over 20 will have received at least one dose of a vaccine (whether the vaccine each person receives is double-dose or single-dose) and that most of them will be fully vaccinated by the end of August. Therefore, the strike threat is turn out to be moot.

Hopefully. I don’t want to strike!

Newbie20

Seaandwind wrote: »

These are part of what we signed up to when we decided to be a teacher/public sector? It is a decision anyone can make.

I don’t think the fact I have a pension should make me less entitled to a vaccine or be mentioned in a discussion to do with it. This might not be your argument but it was said to me twice this week in other situations so there seems to be some issue with it - ‘sure you have a grand job, a pension’, - what has a pension got to do with it? It was not the reason I signed up for my job, it just came with this. I could go into public sector pension argument but I won’t, us Post 2013 graduates are not on the nice gravy train of the past! .

It took me 8 years to get my ‘life contract’. I signed up for that slog. It takes some people many more.

You are right in that those things have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. However, the people out there that are bitter about the holidays we get can’t help having a pop about holidays whenever there is any discussion teacher related.

Anybody can say that we don’t deserve the vaccine earlier and they are perfectly entitled to say that. Personally I’m happy to wait if I knew that teachers would have the vaccine by the start of next school year. I don’t think that would be an unfair request and I think a lot of the unions wording has been unhelpful. But when people bring long holidays, “cushy” hours into the argument, then they show their true colours.

Bass Reeves

political analyst wrote: »

It is very likely that every adult over 20 will have received at least one dose of a vaccine (whether the vaccine each person receives is double-dose or single-dose) and that most of them will be fully vaccinated by the end of August. Therefore, the strike threat is turn out to be moot.

Then WTF did the unions pass a motion threatening strike action. It has to up there with the attempt by LUAS transport workers to try to get 30%+ pay rise and the failure of Bus Eireann workers to enter talks about rationalization 2-3 years ago.

By all means pass a motion ecpressing your disappointment and looking for gaurantees regarding teacher vaccination before the new school year next autumn, but this was negotiation Harikiri.

IMO the TUI and INTO are struggling with the radicalism of the ASTI. There is probably more radical members in both union's pushing towards an ASTI agenda. Both of these bodies need to take a step back and reflect after this debacle

rosknight

Why should'nt all teachers want to get vaccinated as soon as possible and be free to holiday abroad for the Summer.

Seaandwind

Bitter about the holidays is an understatement..any time there is anything in the media about teachers - pay inequality, classroom sizes, - ‘sure they’ve three months off plus more’. It is a strange obsession. My three months holiday are a fantastic benefit, unreal perk to my job. But they don’t get me a mortgage or better educational facilities and conditions!

Seaandwind

rosknight wrote: »

Why should'nt all teachers want to get vaccinated as soon as possible and be free to holiday abroad for the Summer.

Can you point me in the direction of these people or where you saw this? I would love to see it.

Lillyfae

Seaandwind wrote: »

Bitter about the holidays is an understatement..any time there is anything in the media about teachers - pay inequality, classroom sizes, - ‘sure they’ve three months off plus more’. It is a strange obsession. My three months holiday are a fantastic benefit, unreal perk to my job. But they don’t get me a mortgage or better educational facilities and conditions!

I agree that it's a very stupid argument. Obviously I'd love to have the holidays that you guys have, who wouldn't? But I recognize that there are benefits to my job that far outweigh the holidays that you get, not to mention I have no aptitude for teaching children who aren't mine.

lulublue22

rosknight wrote: »

Why should'nt all teachers want to get vaccinated as soon as possible and be free to holiday abroad for the Summer.

I think you missed the boat with that one - better late than never I suppose.

Mr. teddywinkles

Newbie20 wrote: »

The funny thing is this argument could easily be made. But teacher unions aren’t making the case for the supermarket workers. The teacher unions represent the teachers. Why people think they should be making a case for gardaí or supermarkets is beyond me when they don’t represent them.

Because there not mouthing self entitlement. That's the difference. There getting on with it like everyone else. Towing the line

Newbie20

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Because there not mouthing self entitlement. That's the difference. There getting on with it like everyone else. Towing the line

Why did you quote me when you didn’t respond to what I actually said? Was it that you couldn’t disagree with what I said in my last post so you looked for one of mine from a couple of days ago? Very sad behaviour if so.

Seaandwind

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Because there not mouthing self entitlement. That's the difference. There getting on with it like everyone else. Towing the line

Why should everyone shut up and get on with it if they feel utterly unsafe? Freedom of speech no?

If you read through this thread, most / majority of teachers are not looking to skip a queue.

lulublue22

Seaandwind wrote: »

Bitter about the holidays is an understatement..any time there is anything in the media about teachers - pay inequality, classroom sizes, - ‘sure they’ve three months off plus more’. It is a strange obsession. My three months holiday are a fantastic benefit, unreal perk to my job. But they don’t get me a mortgage or better educational facilities and conditions!

There have been a number of issues highlighted recently re AN - in particular no extra SET allocation to offset the effect of the rolling closures of schools on children with AN nor has there been any concern raised re the effect of moving to a community based system for OT , S& L and Physios and the effect of that on children attending special schools - if it can’t be linked to holidays pay and or lazy teachers then it gets no traction.

awec

Seaandwind wrote: »

These are part of what we signed up to when we decided to be a teacher/public sector? It is a decision anyone can make.

I don’t think the fact I have a pension should make me less entitled to a vaccine or be mentioned in a discussion to do with it. This might not be your argument but it was said to me twice this week in other situations so there seems to be some issue with it - ‘sure you have a grand job, a pension’, - what has a pension got to do with it? It was not the reason I signed up for my job, it just came with this. I could go into public sector pension argument but I won’t, us Post 2013 graduates are not on the nice gravy train of the past! .

It took me 8 years to get my ‘life contract’. I signed up for that slog. It takes some people many more.

I think this is a great example of how divorced from reality the mindset of teachers is.

Nobody thinks you are less entitled. Teachers believe that they are more entitled to the vaccine than the old an vulnerable, and have issued demands to the government that they are either prioritised or they will refuse to work.

It is not that we think you are less entitled, it is that we believe you are no more entitled than anyone else, despite the assertions by the unions to the contrary.

Beasty

Treppen wrote: »

You appear to be splitting off the Union into types with 'officials' 'militant types' and ' grass roots'.

Your forgetting that at the end of the day it's a democracy and everyone is free to vote and each vote carries the same weight, in the same way that every member can bring a motion to be examined.

"it's a very unfortunate side effect that many will think a lot of teachers support these proposals. "... Let's just wait and see what actually happens, people can think what they like , as always teachers shouldn't rely on public support to seek fair working conditions... Thankfully.

To be clear I think the union proposals are outrageous. I would be greatly disappointed if the "grass roots" do support them

Seaandwind

awec wrote: »

I think this is a great example of how divorced from reality the mindset of teachers is.

Nobody thinks you are less entitled. Teachers believe than they are more entitled to the vaccine than the old an vulnerable, and have issued demands to the government that they are either prioritised or they will refuse to work.

It is not that we think you are less entitled, it is that we believe you are no more entitled than anyone else, despite the assertions by the unions to the contrary.

Thanks for telling me I think I am more entitled that my older parents, or sick / vulnerable. I can assure you I do not and would not take it.

Can I point out, unions have issued these demands. How many teachers agree can you tell me? How many teacher are not even part of a union?

political analyst

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Then WTF did the unions pass a motion threatening strike action. It has to up there with the attempt by LUAS transport workers to try to get 30%+ pay rise and the failure of Bus Eireann workers to enter talks about rationalization 2-3 years ago.

By all means pass a motion ecpressing your disappointment and looking for gaurantees regarding teacher vaccination before the new school year next autumn, but this was negotiation Harikiri.

IMO the TUI and INTO are struggling with the radicalism of the ASTI. There is probably more radical members in both union's pushing towards an ASTI agenda. Both of these bodies need to take a step back and reflect after this debacle

Given that the voluntary secondary schools, which were founded by Christian organisations, form the traditional base of the ASTI's membership, I'm puzzled as to how the ASTI has become radical in the past two decades.

awec

Seaandwind wrote: »

Thanks for telling me I think I am more entitled that my older parents, or sick / vulnerable. I can’t assure you I do not and would not take it.

Can I point out, unions have issued these demands. How many teachers agree can you tell me? How many teacher are not even part of a union?

Unions that are, quite literally, just a collective of teachers.

Seaandwind

awec wrote: »

Unions that are, quite literally, just a collective of teachers.

But how many agree? We have never been asked our opinion.

I am in a union. I do not agree. I have not received any communication about my opinion on this.

So you are a little ‘divorced from reality’ of what some teachers actually believe.

Newbie20

awec wrote: »

Unions that are, quite literally, just a collective of teachers.

You seem to be struggling to understand that there has been no ballot of teachers yet.

dmc17

Seaandwind wrote: »

Can you point me in the direction of these people or where you saw this? I would love to see it.

From here

teachers’ unions said they are to hold ballots for strike action unless the Government agrees to prioritise their members for vaccination by the end of the current school year.

Just seems a strange demand that they are calling to be vaccinated before the holidays rather than being vaccinated before returning after the holidays

LillySV

Let them strike and dock their pay for the days... if they back down to them again then they need to be removed from office

awec

Newbie20 wrote: »

You seem to be struggling to understand that there has been no ballot of teachers yet.

So?

Does that mean that when the teachers unions, which again I will repeat are literally just organised groups of teachers, speak publicly and make demands, that they are not speaking on behalf of their members?

Attempts to distance teachers from teachers unions are quite amusing. It is like arguing that Michael Martin is not representing FF on an issue unless he has balloted every single FF member to get their views in advance.

Seaandwind

awec wrote: »

So?

Does that mean that when the teachers unions, which again I will repeat are literally just organised groups of teachers, speak publicly and make demands, that they are not speaking on behalf of their members?

Attempts to distance teachers from teachers unions are quite amusing. It is like arguing that Michael Martin is not representing FF on an issue unless he has balloted every single FF member to get their views in advance.

What is amusing is the nations obsession with teacher bashing.

I know people working from home in OT and are vaccinated since February, in my age group which is far from ‘older’. Why is no one targeting them? Teachers aren’t even scheduled and we are being hated on constantly. It’s bizarre.

Pussyhands

Anyone come across that Voice for Teachers page on facebook? It's an open group so any teacher friends commenting brings it up on the timeline.

Had a read of it, they're soooo selfish and deluded.

"but we're in a room all day with 30 kids!"

First of all, the average class size is 25. Second of all, yes we know you're more at risk of getting the virus but chances of a 25 year old teacher dying or getting very ill from Covid is practically 0. Now, a 60 year old bus driver might not have as much chance of getting the virus, but some will get it and they will die because older people are at much greater risk.

Seaandwind

Pussyhands wrote: »

Anyone come across that Voice for Teachers page on facebook? It's an open group so any teacher friends commenting brings it up on the timeline.

Had a read of it, they're soooo selfish and deluded.

"but we're in a room all day with 30 kids!"

First of all, the average class size is 25. Second of all, yes we know you're more at risk of getting the virus but chances of a 25 year old teacher dying or getting very ill from Covid is practically 0. Now, a 60 year old bus driver might not have as much chance of getting the virus, but some will get it and they will die because older people are at much greater risk.

I suppose there are no teachers in the country who are 60. Very valid point there.

What other profession puts up with this? We are selfish, lazy, entitled, useless. It is mad, the levels of teacher bashing. I would suggest looking up Hibernia, CAO, PAC - these are all websites where you can sign up to the teaching profession.

For Forks Sake

Seaandwind wrote: »

I suppose there are no teachers in the country who are 60. Very valid point there.

What other profession puts up with this? We are selfish, lazy, entitled, useless. It is mad, the levels of teacher bashing. I would suggest looking up Hibernia, CAO, PAC - these are all websites where you can sign up to the teaching profession.

And the 60 year old teacher will be vaccinated at the same time as the 60 year old busdriver, because they are both at higher risk levels than their 25 year old equivelents, who will be vaccinated in due course.

Windorah

Pussyhands wrote: »

Anyone come across that Voice for Teachers page on facebook? It's an open group so any teacher friends commenting brings it up on the timeline.

Had a read of it, they're soooo selfish and deluded.

"but we're in a room all day with 30 kids!"

First of all, the average class size is 25. Second of all, yes we know you're more at risk of getting the virus but chances of a 25 year old teacher dying or getting very ill from Covid is practically 0. Now, a 60 year old bus driver might not have as much chance of getting the virus, but some will get it and they will die because older people are at much greater risk.

I agree with you about that facebook page! I unfollowed as the posters views do not, in any way, align with mine or any teacher I know But isn't it always the case that the whingers and moaners shout the loudest?

Personally I am more than happy to continue working unvaccinated despite the risks and what not due to the very fact that I am young(ish!)...I can't speak for teachers who are 50-60 plus.

It is also worth pointing out that staff in special schools and SNA's carry out duties similar to healthcare staff...

Lol at the average class size comment!!