The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Windorah

Seaandwind wrote: »

I suppose there are no teachers in the country who are 60. Very valid point there.

What other profession puts up with this? We are selfish, lazy, entitled, useless. It is mad, the levels of teacher bashing. I would suggest looking up Hibernia, CAO, PAC - these are all websites where you can sign up to the teaching profession.

It's maddening but the media fuel it. HSE staff who are not in public facing rolls have been vaccinated. OT's, physio's etc have been vaccinated despite still working from home. The passport office has not been operating fully due to "being unable" to be in the office. Transport workers refusing to go above 50% capacity until they are vaccinated. Office workers working from home for over a year now...But how dare teachers question the need for a vaccine when working in, often, poorly ventilated rooms with upwards of twenty plus non mask wearing people...

For what it's worth I am more than happy to continue to teach and work unvaccinated as I want schools to stay open but we are always the scapegoats. It's exhausting!!!

yabadabado

Seaandwind wrote: »

I suppose there are no teachers in the country who are 60. Very valid point there.

Don't be silly .
You are completely missing the point .

khalessi

Windorah wrote: »

..

Lol at the average class size comment!!

Me too! it is funny. Though FF committed last Oct budget to lower pupil teacher ratio from Sept 2021, something else the Unions pushed for, for years.

I think I know why they are "25" and fellow teachers can help me on this one. Remember a few years ago the Dept realised if they included Special Education Teachers, the Resource/ Learning Support in mainstream, with mainstream class teachers it would lower the average class size. It might be about 5 years or so ago could be longer, they spend so much time playing with figures. All the sudden talk of inclass teaching even though SET dont take classes but take groups or do 1 to 1.

yabadabado

Based on the priority list that the teacher unions want to be used again for their members ,when were teacher's going to start getting the vaccine and how long was it expected to take to have every teacher vaccinated?

Beasty

Seaandwind wrote: »

I suppose there are no teachers in the country who are 60.

You do realise that those teachers who are 60 are going to move up the priority list as a result of these changes?

.42.

Seaandwind wrote: »

Why should everyone shut up and get on with it if they feel utterly unsafe? Freedom of speech no?

If you read through this thread, most / majority of teachers are not looking to skip a queue.

Only because they are distancing themselves based on public backlash.

They wanted to be prioritised and the Unions acted upon it. Now that the teachers scored an own goal they have left the Unions holding the bag and went into hiding denying to have played a part in it.

I actually find it quite cowardly

Cluedo Monopoly

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'm calling this spin. If it wasn't a union position, then 3 unions wouldn't have jointly tabled the motion. If the members support it then that's something different, but many are distancing themselves from the union position.

It's a really simple yes/ no question. Do you support the union position or not?

Are the people distancing themselves from the union also labelled 'Teacher Bashers' or is it more nuanced than that?

Quin_Dub

yabadabado wrote: »

Based on the priority list that the teacher unions want to be used again for their members ,when were teacher's going to start getting the vaccine and how long was it expected to take to have every teacher vaccinated?

Overall , little to no difference between the two approaches.

"Priority Access" would have started late May , finishing probably early August sometime.

National "Age based" rollout has everybody getting done by Late August , early September.

So , for the younger teachers , it's maybe a 4-6 week delay.

But fundamentally - Very very few Teachers would have been vaccinated before the end of this school year and regardless of which path is followed they are all done by the time we start the new school year next September.

So the "risk based" argument for prioritisation is really weak in my view - The shift in scheduling has an extremely limited impact on the risk/exposure for the majority of teachers.

yabadabado

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Overall , little to no difference between the two approaches.

"Priority Access" would have started late May , finishing probably early August sometime.

National "Age based" rollout has everybody getting done by Late August , early September.

So , for the younger teachers , it's maybe a 4-6 week delay.

But fundamentally - Very very few Teachers would have been vaccinated before the end of this school year and regardless of which path is followed they are all done by the time we start the new school year next September.

So the "risk based" argument for prioritisation is really weak in my view - The shift in scheduling has an extremely limited impact on the risk/exposure for the majority of teachers.

None of the union representatives I've heard the past few days have mentioned that and it's something that should be highlighted.

Unions should really be picking their battle's better than this considering all that is wrong in the education sector.

FileNotFound

Vaccinated for their holidays seems to be the mindset.

Shocking selfish deluded carry on, I thought they deemed themselves non essential when they refused to work earlier this year.

Why would they now be a priority?


All in all I have lost all respect for the teachers unions and whatever they say going forward I will be less inclined to support.

markodaly

Treppen wrote: »

Says who?
What's your own job, education, pension and salary?

60k for a professional after 30 years isn't exactly Jeff Bezos is it!

A ridiculous comparison that doesn't really deserve a response.

lulublue22

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Are the people distancing themselves from the union also labelled 'Teacher Bashers' or is it more nuanced than that?

Much more nuanced than that - you can disagree with your union after all that’s what the ballot is for and it would be some feat for any union to achieve consensus among all it’s members . it’s kinda why a majority ballot is accepted. The teacher bashers on the other hand make tiresome reference to pay holidays lazy teachers ad nuseum in response to every question asked on any matter relating to teaching.

Cluedo Monopoly

lulublue22 wrote: »

Much more nuanced than that - you can disagree with your union after all that’s what the ballot is for and it would be some feat for any union to achieve consensus among all it’s members . it’s kinda why a majority ballot is accepted. The teacher bashers on the other hand make tiresome reference to pay holidays lazy teachers ad nuseum in response to every question asked on any matter relating to teaching.

Fair enough but you'll also find the teacher bashing accusation thrown at posters who are solely focused on the vaccine priority issue and don't mention the other tiresome references you listed. It was becoming the default argument.

Seaandwind

.42. wrote: »

Only because they are distancing themselves based on public backlash.

They wanted to be prioritised and the Unions acted upon it. Now that the teachers scored an own goal they have left the Unions holding the bag and went into hiding denying to have played a part in it.

I actually find it quite cowardly

I will add silly and coward to the list of names teachers have been called.

Teacher bashing is quite a toxic past time, I will be happy and stand in line, behind older and vulnerable, with my age group - awaiting my vaccine. I’ve said the same thing time and time again and yet people love to zone in and assume we are ‘divorced from reality’, ‘deluded’ - Maybe some other teachers are but we are not all the same. It’s impossible to convince people of this.

Quin_Dub

yabadabado wrote: »

None of the union representatives I've heard the past few days have mentioned that and it's something that should be highlighted.

Unions should really be picking their battle's better than this considering all that is wrong in the education sector.

I'd agree.

Has a 50 year old teacher that has been teaching in class rooms since last March been exposed to more risk than 50yr old me sitting at my desk in my home office?

Of course they have, however pushing for prioritisation now given the planned schedules could almost be viewed as looking for a reward for the risk they've already taken rather than as a proposal to reduce future risk.

It's a strange hill for the unions to potentially choose to die on.

dirtyden

I think people need to have a little more empathy with the position of the rank and file teachers most who do just want to get on with it. It was originally proposed they would be vaccinated due to their profession and that has probably made some more comfortable with the risk of going back to the classroom. That position was changed and it has been disconcerting for some.

The teachers I know just want to get on with it and don’t believe there will or actually want industrial action but are still rightly disappointed with the change in vaccination policy.

Whilst I agree with the scientific rationale for the change in vaccine policy I’d still be a little put out if one was pulled out of my arm.

Seaandwind

For Forks Sake wrote: »

And the 60 year old teacher will be vaccinated at the same time as the 60 year old busdriver, because they are both at higher risk levels than their 25 year old equivelents, who will be vaccinated in due course.

Yes and rightly so, I didn’t intend for it to look like a 60 year old teacher should get it before a 60 year old bus driver - I was referring to the context a poster put it in.

yabadabado

I didn't realise the level of persecution teacher's faced but this " teacher bashing" seems to be of epidemic proportions or at least it is according to a few posters here.

Seaandwind

yabadabado wrote: »

I didn't realise the level of persecution teacher's faced but this " teacher bashing" seems to be of epidemic proportions or it is according to a few posters here.

Have a read of any article on Facebook, or The Journal. The level of anger regarding teachers is something eye opening.

I had someone send me a message regarding it too - completely random and assuming my stance on the whole thing.

yabadabado

Seaandwind wrote: »

Have a read of any article on Facebook, or The Journal. The level of anger regarding teachers is something eye opening.

I had someone send me a message regarding it too - completely random and assuming my stance on the whole thing.

I think reading articles on Facebook or The Journal could be a bigger problem.

Calling it Teacher Bashing is just a strange term to use to describe it.

lawred2

For the sake of a few months before Summer Holidays during a time where older teachers will getting vaccinated pro-rata with the rest of population anyway - I can't understand the justification for such militancy...

Do younger teachers in their twenties/thirties/forties really support the notion of possibly jumping ahead of their own parents in the queue?

I'd be surprised.

Is this really where all teachers are at? Or just the militant never happy angry ones who turn up at teacher conferences every year?

jrosen

Everyone is in a bad mood and fed up. When the papers are printing stories of people being able to have more freedoms once they are vaccinated and then teachers unions are stating they want to be prioritized its winds the general public up. Wouldnt we all like to be vaccinated as soon as possible.

On the plus side with the summer looming teachers will at least have some time out of the classroom and hopefully by the return of the school year they will be vaccinated. I really dont think another school year or term should be disturbed.

yabadabado

lulublue22 wrote: »

I can only speak for myself - I find it head wrecking- and again speaking for myself has really ramped up in the last year. In my opinion any discussion is derailed time and time again with lazy teachers , pup, entitled, holidays and pay. In this thread alone we have had - all teachers are engaging in illegal activity by giving grinds and not declaring tax , all teachers are self entitled who expect everyone to bow down before them, all teachers want to be vacc so they can go on holidays , all teachers did nothing for the last year , all teachers should have their pay frozen for the next ten years , all teachers want to go on strike so they can be paid for not working and my favourite all teachers should be put on pup while they are on strike - posted by someone who genuinely believed people get paid while on strike. From my perspective it’s fairly tiresome.

Why would you care what an anonymous poster on an internet message board thinks of your job?

Seaandwind

yabadabado wrote: »

I think reading articles on Facebook or The Journal could be a bigger problem.

Calling it Teacher Bashing is just a strange term to use to describe it.

What would you call it then? It’s bashing the profession of teachers? I’m not sure what else I could say?

I don’t agree that OT workers who work from home (who I know of personally - not all work from home) or some admin staff who are working at home got the vaccine before many, many older and vulnerable people but you don’t see me or others calling them selfish or entitled/ cowards / silly / divorced from reality / horrible people - just a few names from today alone.

Newbie20

awec wrote: »

So?

Does that mean that when the teachers unions, which again I will repeat are literally just organised groups of teachers, speak publicly and make demands, that they are not speaking on behalf of their members?

Attempts to distance teachers from teachers unions are quite amusing. It is like arguing that Michael Martin is not representing FF on an issue unless he has balloted every single FF member to get their views in advance.

So you’re saying that I and other teachers have to agree with everything the union say? I have said that I don’t agree with them on their position. I will have a chance to show that I don’t agree when it comes to the ballot (and I’ll be e-mailing our rep).

There is no strike happening because they have yet to ballot the members. That’s the way the union works. They can’t proceed without the support of the members. If the decision of teachers is then to strike, personally I will be disappointed. At that point then the decision will represent the majority of teachers. At the moment there hasn’t been a members vote. I can’t make that any clearer.

To use your own analogy, Mícheál Martin is also the leader of the country and represents us. So are you saying that you are not allowed to disagree (or distance yourself as you put it) with his decisions. If you think for example that outdoor gatherings are harmless and sport should be allowed at all levels, are you now not allowed to express this opinion because it differs from that of the leader of the country?

Its now been pointed out on this thread that if you back the unions viewpoint you’re a disgrace. But also if you don’t back the unions viewpoint you are a coward. Sums it up.

I find it amusing that the holidays argument is used so often by people that seem to be posting all hours of the day on any teacher related thread, these people seemingly do little or no work themselves.

I’ll leave it at that. I’ve said that I don’t agree with the unions on this one. But people still aren’t happy with that. Now I’m a coward. Pointless trying to have a discussion in this place. I’ll stick to the sport forums.

yabadabado

Seaandwind wrote: »

What would you call it then? It’s bashing the profession of teachers? I’m not sure what else I could say?

I don’t agree that OT workers who work from home (who I know of personally - not all work from home) or some admin staff who are working at home got the vaccine before many, many older and vulnerable people but you don’t see me or others calling them selfish or entitled/ cowards / silly / divorced from reality / horrible people - just a few names from today alone.

Bashing to me is something much worse than getting called a few names that may hurt my feelings.
When I hear the term "bashing" ,it reminds me of the violence in parts of Britain in 70/80s to a certain demographic


Doesn't really make any difference to me what you like to call it but just my thoughts on the matter.

Newbie20

lulublue22 wrote: »

I can only speak for myself - I find it head wrecking- and again speaking for myself has really ramped up in the last year. In my opinion any discussion is derailed time and time again with lazy teachers , pup, entitled, holidays and pay. In this thread alone we have had - all teachers are engaging in illegal activity by giving grinds and not declaring tax , all teachers are self entitled who expect everyone to bow down before them, all teachers want to be vacc so they can go on holidays , all teachers did nothing for the last year , all teachers should have their pay frozen for the next ten years , all teachers want to go on strike so they can be paid for not working and my favourite all teachers should be put on pup while they are on strike - posted by someone who genuinely believed people get paid while on strike. From my perspective it’s fairly tiresome.

Time for a break from boards I’d say Lulu. I know I will be taking one, maybe for good. Enjoy the last 3/4 days of the much discussed holidays! And let’s look forward to the summer!

yabadabado

Newbie20 wrote: »

Time for a break from boards I’d say Lulu. I know I will be taking one, maybe for good. Enjoy the last 3/4 days of the much discussed holidays! And let’s look forward to the summer!

That's actually great advice,no harm taking a break from boards/social media etc if you are finding it too stressful or not enjoyable.

Think of your wellbeing,no point posting here or elsewhere if it's negatively effecting your mental health.

LillySV

Windorah wrote: »

It's maddening but the media fuel it. HSE staff who are not in public facing rolls have been vaccinated. OT's, physio's etc have been vaccinated despite still working from home. The passport office has not been operating fully due to "being unable" to be in the office. Transport workers refusing to go above 50% capacity until they are vaccinated. Office workers working from home for over a year now...But how dare teachers question the need for a vaccine when working in, often, poorly ventilated rooms with upwards of twenty plus non mask wearing people...

For what it's worth I am more than happy to continue to teach and work unvaccinated as I want schools to stay open but we are always the scapegoats. It's exhausting!!!

Teachers have been trying to find ways to whine and go on strike since last March!!!while people were dropping dead, nursing homes riddled ... and all the public could hear was how upset the teachers were ... strikes planned etc! Teachers are far from scapegoats... I’m sure ye teach kids about the boy who cried wolf ... ye should know the morale of the story .... and as a result expect people’s lowering levels of sympathy for teachers...

square ball

How many days has the average teacher spent physically in the classroom teaching since March 2020?

Compare this with other professions such as guards/retail staff/bus and train drivers/ who have facilitated the country remaining open for the last 12 months. I'm not overly fond of An Garda Siochana but Guards should have been vaccinated straight away after Healthcare workers considering the functions they have to carry out.

Why aren't teachers wearing full PPE if they feel unsafe in the classroom at the moment?

I understand some of the teachers concerns but ye do need to look at the bigger picture here. A lot of other professions have just got on with it, HCW/Guards/retail staff when they knew very little about Covid and the effects since last March.

What were ye going to do if the vaccine wasn't available for another year?

Is it not correct that most of the older/very vulnerable teaching staff are not working in a classroom at the minute and the ones that are left will be vaccinated along with the rest of the population. Only 20-25% of teachers are aged over 50 with most retired by 60 so can't be a massive number of at risk teachers physically teaching a class each day.

Teachers weren't frontline staff from March to September 2020, some worked hard from home after a while and some did nothing until they went to the classroom in September. Remote learning improved when schools were closed after Christmas but was extremely hit and miss this time last year.

Teachers have an important place in normal society but schools have been closed for more than half of the last 12 months but ye are still too quick to down tools and moan when the Government/Department of Education doesn't give special treatment.

Age based vaccination roll out is the only fair way forward.