The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

khalessi

Pussyhands wrote: »

I wish someone had the balls to come out and face up to teachers. They claim "we're in an enclosed space with 30 kids a day!!!!" yet shop workers are far worse....they actually touch products touched by customers all day long coming into contact with a couple hundred people.

Firstly any shop I have been in the shopworjers have gloves. Secondly, It is now recognised as aerosol transmission. Thirdly, supermarkets were also very quick with perspex on cash tills by end of May last year, and carry out the following safety measures; limited numbers instore, sd, handwashing, masks, mechanical ventilation, high ceilings, space, customers dont spend 5 hours instore, perspex at tills, gloves, antigen testing due to start lidl staff.

Schools have hand sanitiser no sd, no masks, no mechanical ventilation. 6000 teachers had to avail of Covid Leave in Sept/Oct last year.
ONS stats in UK showed teachers have second highest incidence of Long Covid
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/03/nhs-feels-strain-tens-thousands-staff-long-covid?__twitter_impression=true

cms88

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Do you honestly believe an infant teacher can stay 2 m away for the children?Name another job where people are asked to ignore 2 m social distancing , without masks for hours on end and with up to and beyond30 people in the same space ?

Again supermarket workers. Form them people just ignore it and act like they're not even there. But you're just so much better than them aren;t you?

JimmyCorkhill

If the teachers go on strike, can they have their full salary removed & put on PUP?

political analyst

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Her GP refused to
stand over her “ exemption.”

The student's mother said the GP, although he has verbally stated he doesn't stand over the exemption, hasn't issued a letter to that effect.

lulublue22

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

If the teachers go on strike, can they have their full salary removed & put on PUP?

That would be great as is you are not paid if you strike.

khalessi

cms88 wrote: »

Again supermarket workers. Form them people just ignore it and act like they're not even there. But you're just so much better than them aren;t you?

Wow, that comes across as very aggressive questioning. As frontline workers they would have been vaccinated along with creche workers teachers, SNAs, gardaí but now they will have to be done by age as you all agree so I think using them as examples is poor taste on this thread since you all are against frontline workers being vaccinated.

Pussyhands

Teachers must wonder, that how often they accuse people of "teacher bashing", why in fact they get so much "bashing" and none of the other public sector workers do?

The reality is, 99% of teachers have spent their life in school/education and don't have experience of the real world.

A couple years ago when they were threatening strikes again over pay, I had a conversation with a family member about graduate teacher pay. I said graduate teachers get good money for being a graduate, 10k more than I got as a graduate. I said they get around 32k which was very good money for a graduate. You know what they said?....."Yeah, but they get taxed on that!"

Locotastic

griffin100 wrote: »

If you believe the public health rationale for vaccinating by age, then what teachers are looking to do is to bump those who are more likely to die from Covid down the vaccination waiting list for their own benefit. Classy.

They've been looking for that all along, they seem to place themselves alongside doctors and nurses and carers in the same par as essential workers.

They have been 'calling for' vaccinations for themselves since we managed to start vaccinating. Little thought given to the people who will need to be bumped down the vaccination roll out to allow this.

Of all the professions in this country they have certainly been shown up this year and last year and painted publicly as lazy and selfish. ASTI does them no favours with the relentless oppositional stance and endless demands.

If it was up to me I'd let them strike rather than be held to demands from the likes of ASTI. See how long they last being paid nothing to sit at home on strike, sure we've managed without them a lot these past 12 months so might as well save a few bob while we're at it.

lulublue22

Pussyhands wrote: »

Teachers must wonder, that how often they accuse people of "teacher bashing", why in fact they get so much "bashing" and none of the other public sector workers do?

The reality is, 99% of teachers have spent their life in school/education and don't have experience of the real world.

A couple years ago when they were threatening strikes again over pay, I had a conversation with a family member about graduate teacher pay. I said graduate teachers get good money for being a graduate, 10k more than I got as a graduate. I said they get around 32k which was very good money for a graduate. You know what they said?....."Yeah, but they get taxed on that!"

Perhaps you chose the wrong career ?

cms88

khalessi wrote: »

Wow, that comes across as very aggressive questioning. As frontline workers they would have been vaccinated along with creche workers teachers, SNAs, gardaí but now they will have to be done by age as you all agree so I think using them as examples is poor taste on this thread since you all are against frontline workers being vaccinated.

Where did anyine say that? It's pretty clear supermarket workers are in a much higher risk environment than teachers, yet they're demanding to be vaccinated before them.

Pussyhands

lulublue22 wrote: »

Perhaps you chose the wrong career ?

No, I'm earning good money due to my hard work and skills.

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

Wow, that comes across as very aggressive questioning. As frontline workers they would have been vaccinated along with creche workers teachers, SNAs, gardaí but now they will have to be done by age as you all agree so I think using them as examples is poor taste on this thread since you all are against frontline workers being vaccinated.

Schools must be the only 'frontline' workers that managed to stay at home for the guts of the past year.

Teachers are nowhere near frontline when you consider all the healthcare workers and retail staff and countless other professions that managed to keep the show on the road.

khalessi

cms88 wrote: »

Where did anyine say that? It's pretty clear supermarket workers are in a much higher risk environment than teachers, yet they're demanding to be vaccinated before them.

Atually data from ONS reported in The Guardian, teachers are second highest career of risk of Long Term Covid after Health Care workers but continue

cms88

khalessi wrote: »

Atually data from ONS reported in The Guardian, teachers are second highest career of risk of Long Term Covid after Health Care workers but continue

Any date from Ireland no?

lulublue22

Pussyhands wrote: »

No, I'm earning good money due to my hard work and skills.

Oh that’s great to hear for a moment I thought you were concerned that you were in the wrong profession as other grads were earning 10k more than you.

BanditLuke

Complete support the teachers on this.

cms88

lulublue22 wrote: »

Perhaps you chose the wrong career ?

Maybe it's the teachers who chose the wrong career. Seeing as they're never happy with anything

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

Complete support the teachers on this.

Why?
Do you think they should get vaccines before all the front line workers who were out working all year?
Or any older people?

khalessi

cms88 wrote: »

Any date from Ireland no?

Lets see would the fact that 6000+ teachers were put on Covid leave in Sept and Oct last year count, probably not, unless a teacher has died as that is normally what the baying crowds ask for as proof.

lulublue22

cms88 wrote: »

Maybe it's the teachers who chose the wrong career. Seeing as they're never happy with anything

I don’t know I’d never presume to speak for circa 60000 people. Be a bit presumptuous really - kinda arrogant / bit entitled to think I could speak for every teacher in Ireland.

cms88

lulublue22 wrote: »

I don’t know I’d never presume to speak for circa 60000 people. Be a bit presumptuous really - kinda arrogant / bit entitled to think I could speak for every teacher in Ireland.

Yet i'm sure you'd have no issues speaking for all of them when it comes to being vaccinated....

lulublue22

cms88 wrote: »

Yet i'm sure you'd have no issues speaking for all of them when it comes to being vaccinated....

oh dear you’d be wrong on that a/c but don’t let me stop you with the hyperbolic statements - it’s very entertaining.

Locotastic

lulublue22 wrote: »

I don’t know I’d never presume to speak for circa 60000 people. Be a bit presumptuous really - kinda arrogant / bit entitled to think I could speak for every teacher in Ireland.

ASTI in particular never happy with anything. Dont see many other 'frontline' unions whining constantly and trying to jump the vaccination queue.

Easter hols comes and the predictable teachers unions spanners thrown in the works, same last summer, and October mid term and probably again for the next school break.

It's so predictable it would be funny if it didn't involve an entire generation of children.

Sure when the vaccinations are done then it will be something else to complain about.

lulublue22

Locotastic wrote: »

ASTI in particular never happy with anything. Dont see many other 'frontline' unions whining constantly and trying to jump the vaccination queue.

Easter hols comes and the predictable teachers unions spanners thrown in the works, same last summer, and October mid term and probably again for the next school break.

It's so predictable it would be funny only for the entire generation of children involved.

Sure when the vaccinations are done then it will be something else to complain about.

ASTI don’t represent every teacher in Ireland.

Crocodile Booze

Darc19 wrote: »

exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.

Jeez man, you must earn a pittance if you think that. I wouldnt get out of bed for it!

cms88

lulublue22 wrote: »

oh dear you’d be wrong on that a/c but don’t let me stop you with the hyperbolic statements - it’s very entertaining.

Then what are you doing? You also had no issue with telling others they'd picked the wrong career did you not?

Crocodile Booze

Locotastic wrote: »

ASTI in particular never happy with anything. Dont see many other 'frontline' unions whining constantly and trying to jump the vaccination queue.

Easter hols comes and the predictable teachers unions spanners thrown in the works, same last summer, and October mid term and probably again for the next school break.

It's so predictable it would be funny if it didn't involve an entire generation of children.

Sure when the vaccinations are done then it will be something else to complain about.

So much anger. Were you put in the bold corner as a kid? Venomous.

Locotastic

lulublue22 wrote: »

ASTI don’t represent every teacher in Ireland.

Thankfully, they're just the loudest and most demanding.

Treppen

Pussyhands wrote: »

Teachers must wonder, that how often they accuse people of "teacher bashing", why in fact they get so much "bashing" and none of the other public sector workers do?

No wondering really, it's just because practically every human in Ireland has spent longer than 10 years at one side of a teacher's desk. It's just many think they know it all from being in the same environment.
It's in a similar vein to people with illnesses as a child end up in the same field, or people with early psychological engagements go into the profession.

Pussyhands wrote: »

The reality is, 99% of teachers have spent their life in school/education and don't have experience of the real world.

The same as the reality of being a student in a classroom and thinking you are a teacher.

Plenty of accountants, engineers, plumbers etc. who go from secondary into apprenticeships/ college into their field without any "real world" experience.
So what.

Pussyhands wrote: »

A couple years ago when they were threatening strikes again over pay, I had a conversation with a family member about graduate teacher pay. I said graduate teachers get good money for being a graduate, 10k more than I got as a graduate. I said they get around 32k which was very good money for a graduate. You know what they said?....."Yeah, but they get taxed on that!"

Ya and I've talked to very wealthy people in private sector who moan about paying tax too.

I'd agree though if your family member was primary then the chances of earning a proper wage upon qualifying is a little better, plus permanency is easier to obtain earlier... Hence why v you'll never see the INTO striking, plus the fact that a larger proportion become principals etc so they ain't bothered too much.

But the vast majority of secondary never see that 32k magic number. It's typically pro rata, holidays unpaid, zero hours, sub contracts for at least 8 years before permanency (from what I see).

What's your own job btw?

lulublue22

cms88 wrote: »

Then what are you doing? You also had no issue with telling others they'd picked the wrong career did you not?

oh dear I think you will find that it was a question which the poster happily answered that no they were very happy with their career choice.

Treppen

Locotastic wrote: »

Thankfully, they're just the loudest and most demanding.

As an ASTI member I'm also thankful.

Locotastic

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

So much anger. Were you put in the bold corner as a kid? Venomous.

Angry that some teachers feel entitled to and their unions push for them to skip people that might otherwise statistically get very ill or die from Covid in addition to adding strain to our health service and prevent everyone else getting necessary care and treatment?

Yes, that makes me angry - anyone pushing for that can't see beyond the end of their own noses.

cms88

lulublue22 wrote: »

oh dear I think you will find that it was a question which the poster happily answered that no they were very happy with their career choice.

Yet you didn;t seem to happy with the answr did you? Given your ly answer.

Anyway there;s little point commenting with you. So i'll just have to bow to you seing as you're an all knowing teacher and the most important of of us all and us mere mortals should be so glad you're keeping the whole country going for us all....

yabadabado

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

Jeez man, you must earn a pittance if you think that. I wouldnt get out of bed for it!

Yeah I don't evny them and nowadays many people look at them as glorified child minders .

Necro

cms88 wrote: »

Again supermarket workers. Form them people just ignore it and act like they're not even there. But you're just so much better than them aren;t you?

cms88 wrote: »

Yet you didn;t seem to happy with the answr did you? Given your ly answer.

Anyway there;s little point commenting with you. So i'll just have to bow to you seing as you're an all knowing teacher and the most important of of us all and us mere mortals should be so glad you're keeping the whole country going for us all....

Threadbanned seeing as you are unable to stay civil

blanch152

Darc19 wrote: »

It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

Then they found a topic.

They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

This is an absolute disgrace.

A 25-year old teacher in a secondary school behind a screen, wearing a mask doesn't deserve a vaccine ahead of a 52-year old meat factory worker with cholesterol and blood pressure issues. Neither do they deserve it ahead of gardai, retail workers or SNAs and carers.

The entitlement culture strikes again.

Age is the highest risk factor. No country is prioritising teachers for vaccines. Only in Ireland would you get this whine from the teaching unions.

yabadabado

Treppen wrote: »

But the vast majority of secondary never see that 32k magic number. It's typically pro rata, holidays unpaid, zero hours, sub contracts for at least 8 years before permanency (from what I see).

What's your own job btw?

At least 8 years on Sub contracts ?
Any link to something to back this up or is it purely anecdotal evidence?

Locotastic

blanch152 wrote: »

This is an absolute disgrace.

A 25-year old teacher in a secondary school behind a screen, wearing a mask doesn't deserve a vaccine ahead of a 52-year old meat factory worker with cholesterol and blood pressure issues. Neither do they deserve it ahead of gardai, retail workers or SNAs and carers.

The entitlement culture strikes again.

Age is the highest risk factor. No country is prioritising teachers for vaccines. Only in Ireland would you get this whine from the teaching unions.

Taken from Irish Examiner article, jaysus they've some neck on them - the sense of entitlement is astonishing.

"Teacher unions say their members will consider strike action over the revised Covid-19 vaccine programme.

The ASTI says teachers are angry at having been "totally discarded" in the Government's revised vaccination programme.

President of the ASTI, Ann Piggott, says the Government needs to reverse the decision.

"Something bad has happened, teachers are annoyed. This decision has to be rescinded or changed in some way and we need to see action."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40258934.html

Beasty

Heard Ann Piggott on the radio earlier. She made my blood boil. I thought teachers would show some element of common sense, but this particular one was either oblivious to the facts, or deliberately attempting to mislead the public

There were a couple of teachers on who were perfectly rational about this, but this particular union attitude is, frankly, absolutely disgraceful

JimmyCorkhill

lulublue22 wrote: »

That would be great as is you are not paid if you strike.

Wasn't sure if teachers were paid or not when on strike. Presume they would start a strike so they can get full pay when on strike

bfa1509

Listening to ASTI gives me A STI

meeeeh

Ignoring all the teacher bashing there is very clear rationale for age based approach. Over 65s make huge bulk of Covid deaths. Even if you exclude those in nursing homes it's still more than any other age group. Yet over 65s are in vast majority retired and not working, are usually the most obedient and are most likely staying at home and minding themselves. So the fact someone is working from home won't necessarily mean they are less at risk than someone working in the shop or teaching.

Working from home limits the spread of Covid but the most significant factor who is at risk of dying or getting seriously ill is age not where you work (excluding healthcare). Why would we faff and distinguish between professions instead of just use age based approach which is the simplest and least prone to abuse. On top of that it is probably the safest.

realdanbreen

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Here’s a thing . Never did grinds , never would .Report anyone you think has been abusing the system .

Here's another thing, have you reported them?

Mr. teddywinkles

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

If your trying to drum up support I'd keep that one quiet!

What great leaders they were.

Natterjack from Kerry

Locotastic wrote: »

Taken from Irish Examiner article, jaysus they've some neck on them - the sense of entitlement is astonishing.

"Teacher unions say their members will consider strike action over the revised Covid-19 vaccine programme.

The ASTI says teachers are angry at having been "totally discarded" in the Government's revised vaccination programme.

President of the ASTI, Ann Piggott, says the Government needs to reverse the decision.

"Something bad has happened, teachers are annoyed. This decision has to be rescinded or changed in some way and we need to see action."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40258934.html

Its just the nature of the beast. Long established unions like the teachers ones, with well ingrained behaviours of getting what they want if they make a loud enough rumpus - really, what year are they ever not sabre rattling to strike about something - with assorted governments over the decades having caved to them, just push for whatever they can get.

The difference here is that it isnt just about pay or conditions and an arm wrestle with the government where the taxpayer loser is hard to link to their claim, as it normally would be.
It is directly at the expense of the health of the more at risk and deserving of vaccines than they are. But the union machine has opened their standard play book, without considering the difference in this case, the morality of it, the price they are asking others to pay to lower the risk for teachers, and the mood of the wider population. Teachers really not coming out well from the corona crisis. Their union structure is built for different battles, not for global pandemics and national emergencies.

0ph0rce0

wear a mask and open a window, sorted.

tayto lover

Darc19 wrote: »

It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

Then they found a topic.

They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs[/QUOTE]

chosen1

cms88 wrote: »

Where did anyine say that? It's pretty clear supermarket workers are in a much higher risk environment than teachers, yet they're demanding to be vaccinated before them.

I can't understand how it's clear that supermarket workers are in a higher risk category than teachers.

Supermarkets in general are large spacious environments where the public come and go very quickly and there's little opportunity to gain 15 minutes of face to face contact which the HSE defines as a close contact. They are also generally modern buildings with good mechanical ventilation.

Compare this to your typical school which has an average of 30 students packed into a 49sq metre room along with the teacher and SNAs and 1 metre between each student. They can be in this room for well over an hour in a double class and the only ventilation is provided by opening a window. It's almost impossible to maintain social distancing with students and still aid learning with some students. It's even worse for SNAs who often have to physically assist their students.

That said, I feel the ASTI are wasting their time pursuing it at this time as even if they did prioritise high risk jobs, the schools would be closed for summer by the time we see our first jab. I still think that front line workers such as Gardai, factory workers, shop staff etc. should get priority over someone who can work from home.

Understand the difficulty in logistics of this but you would think that they would have come up with a system in the year since the pandemic began. They also shouldn't have dangled it as a carrot in their first announcement of priority if there was any doubt about the roll out of vaccines and then whip it away in an instant. Surely they might should have know that this might irk a few unions and people in these jobs.

tayto lover

Darc19 wrote: »

It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

Then they found a topic.

They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

Haha Is it the same Government ministers who think it’s fine for teachers to go into a classroom full of pupils for a day but unsafe for two teachers to go out into the fresh air in a 200 acre golf course ? Those government ministers?

Locotastic

tayto lover wrote: »

Haha Is it the same Government ministers who think it’s fine for teachers to go into a classroom full of pupils for a day but unsafe for two teachers to go out into the fresh air in a 200 acre golf course ? Those government ministers?

It's about priorities v risk.

It's not a priority for those teachers to go golfing but it is for them to do their actual jobs.

Same with the vaccine, the priority is to get those most at risk of serious illness vaccinated and then after that age is probably the fairest way to do it.

I hope the government don't cave on this one, there have been many workers who have not missed a beat and their unions aren't cribbing about me, me, me. The unions need to read the room, people are tired of hearing about teachers demands.