The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Pringles123

Locotastic wrote: »

Students? Other than those age 18+ or those age 16+ for serious underlying conditions there is no plan to vaccinate 'all students'.

What are you talking about? Might want to adjust your expectation, that is not going to happen.

There is multiple vaccine trials at the moment for U18, U 16 with pfizer. Eventually it will be approved for this age group and I expect it to happen before September. This is what I implied and meant in my comment.

Locotastic

Pringles123 wrote: »

There is multiple vaccine trials at the moment for U18, U 16 with pfizer. Eventually it will be approved for this age group and I expect it to happen before September. This is what I implied and meant in my comment.

With the issues now being seen already with vaccines and trials not completed for children yet, you really expect all students to be vaccinated before September?

Do you honestly see a big uptake in parents letting their kids take part in a massive medical experiment for a virus that has very little effect on children?

Pringles123

Locotastic wrote: »

With the issues now being seen already with vaccines and trials not completed for children yet, you really expect all students to be vaccinated before September?

Do you honestly see a big uptake in parents letting their kids take part in a massive medical experiment for a virus that has very little effect on children?

Yes, if the vaccine is approved beforehand and there is time I expect it. If the vaccine is not approved for children obviously I would not have that expectation.

Yes I see parents allowing their children to be vaccinated once its approved if thats what you're asking.

Bobtheman

I was banned from this thread for saying there is a sizeable minority of poor parenting out there.
Anyway glad to see it's moved on to other topics.
As to the original topic - there will be no strike but wonderful to see how quickly people rush to condemn something that has not occurred yet or unlikely to occur.
Our leaders love a bit of union bashing.
Because the last thing they want is unions to return to the private sector.
Well played all

joe40

Pringles123 wrote: »

Yes, if the vaccine is approved beforehand and there is time I expect it. If the vaccine is not approved for children obviously I would not have that expectation.

Yes I see parents allowing their children to be vaccinated once its approved if thats what you're asking.

I'm not in the slightest bit anti vac. I will take the vaccine as soon as possible and all my kids got all vaccines due.
I do however think a large no. of parents will will be hesitant with a covid vaccine for kids even if approved.
The AZ vaccine was approved and then with real world data many countries including Ireland changed tactic.
The risk of covid in kids miniscule so I can imagine many parents will not give a vaccine.

By the way how do drug companies do clinical trials for kids medication. Surely the children can't give consent.

joe40

Bobtheman wrote: »

I was banned from this thread for saying there is a sizeable minority of poor parenting out there.
Anyway glad to see it's moved on to other topics.
As to the original topic - there will be no strike but wonderful to see how quickly people rush to condemn something that has not occurred yet or unlikely to occur.
Our leaders love a bit of union bashing.
Because the last thing they want is unions to return to the private sector.
Well played all

I agree there most likely won't be a strike, but is it not worrying that the Unions would be so out of touch with majority of their members.

Str8outtaWuhan

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not in the slightest bit anti vac. I will take the vaccine as soon as possible and all my kids got all vaccines due.
I do however think a large no. of parents will will be hesitant with a covid vaccine for kids even if approved.
The AZ vaccine was approved and then with real world data many countries including Ireland changed tactic.
The risk of covid in kids miniscule so I can imagine many parents will not give a vaccine.

By the way how do drug companies do clinical trials for kids medication. Surely the children can't give consent.

They get permission from the Irish government and the religious orders to test on the children of "Fallen" women in mother and babies homes, that's how.

Pringles123

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not in the slightest bit anti vac. I will take the vaccine as soon as possible and all my kids got all vaccines due.
I do however think a large no. of parents will will be hesitant with a covid vaccine for kids even if approved.
The AZ vaccine was approved and then with real world data many countries including Ireland changed tactic.
The risk of covid in kids miniscule so I can imagine many parents will not give a vaccine.

By the way how do drug companies do clinical trials for kids medication. Surely the children can't give consent.

I assume the parents give consent. I have read that there is already trials in Pfizer, moderna and astrazeneca taking place currently in under 18s, I am not sure what countries but I believe it could be America.
The problem i have is with vaccines we should try vaccinate everyone to create herd immunity and not put people who cannot get vaccines because of health reasons at risk (this goes for all vaccines). The goal should be to vaccinate the whole world to eradicate the virus like smallpox. Total eradication might not be possible but it should be a goal.

joe40

Pringles123 wrote: »

I assume the parents give consent. I have read that there is already trials in Pfizer, moderna and astrazeneca taking place currently in under 18s, I am not sure what countries but I believe it could be America.
The problem i have is with vaccines we should try vaccinate everyone to create herd immunity and not put people who cannot get vaccines because of health reasons at risk (this goes for all vaccines). The goal should be to vaccinate the whole world to eradicate the virus like smallpox. Total eradication might not be possible but it should be a goal.

Very strange that parents would be allowed to give consent for a trial medication unless the child already has a disease and would benefit.

I just don't understand the mechanics of trialling drugs for kids.

The adults in trials get paid and make informed choices in terms of risk. I would find it incredible if parents were allowed to do that. Strikes me as extremely unethical. Anyway it is off topic.

The herd immunity is a nice ideal but I still don't see enough parents agreeing. Obviously that is just an opinion, I don't know for definite. I do know there will be no iniative to force parents to get kids vaccinated for Covid. Measles is a much more serious childhood disease and there is no sanction, in any way, for refusing the vaccine.

Locotastic

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not in the slightest bit anti vac. I will take the vaccine as soon as possible and all my kids got all vaccines due.
I do however think a large no. of parents will will be hesitant with a covid vaccine for kids even if approved.
The AZ vaccine was approved and then with real world data many countries including Ireland changed tactic.
The risk of covid in kids miniscule so I can imagine many parents will not give a vaccine.

By the way how do drug companies do clinical trials for kids medication. Surely the children can't give consent.

Agreed, for something that has little to no effect on healthy children it's not warranted.

Bobtheman

joe40 wrote: »

I agree there most likely won't be a strike, but is it not worrying that the Unions would be so out of touch with majority of their members.

Yeah it's confusing alright

Icemancometh

Windorah wrote: »

Genuinely curious to know what kind of circles you run in!! I have never heard any teacher I know, trained with or work with describe teaching as "the most stressful" career or in any way comparable to an ICU doctor!!

I remembered responding to this old post on a previous thread about teacher striking. OK, this poster says "no job is as intense as teaching" rather than stressful, but that attitude is out there.

Claw Hammer

briangriffin wrote: »

You see I know you know the unions were not asking to be vaccinated ahead of the elderly and vulnerable. Just that the government commit to what they had earlier promised which was to vaccinate those working in crowded settings.
.

The government did not promise. The government set out a plan, which was always subject to change as knowledge grew.
What the unions are doing is precisely what you are saying they are not doing.
A 21 year old teacher would be vaccinated ahead of a 69 year old if the teachers had their selfish way.
It is utterly childish to be going on with this "but you promised line".

khalessi

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The government did not promise. The government set out a plan, which was always subject to change as knowledge grew.
What the unions are doing is precisely what you are saying they are not doing.
A 21 year old teacher would be vaccinated ahead of a 69 year old if the teachers had their selfish way.
It is utterly childish to be going on with this "but you promised line".

The gov wanted the schools reopened and refused to put in new safety measures, it was finally agreed that they would vaccinate school staff after Elderly and Vunerable. Once they got schools opened, they changed their minds and unions were asking to be put back on list under Cohort 9 of crowded places, after elderly and vunerable.

13% of staff are under 30 in schools so the 21 year old is fable but sure we wil l play with your scenario, the 69 year old is retired and staying home, while the 21 year old is mixing with 150-250 per day people. They also dont have a car being 21 in all so travelling on the bus, meanwhile 69 year is at home. bit silly your scenario, sure will we make 1 of them part of a family of 11.

Claw Hammer

khalessi wrote: »

The gov wanted the schools reopened and refused to put in new safety measures, it was finally agreed that they would vaccinate school staff after Elderly and Vunerable. Once they got schools opened, they changed their minds and unions were asking to be put back on list under Cohort 9 of crowded places, after elderly and vunerable.

13% of staff are under 30 in schools so the 21 year old is fable but sure we wil l play with your scenario, the 69 year old is retired and staying home, while the 21 year old is mixing with 150-250 per day people. They also dont have a car being 21 in all so travelling on the bus, meanwhile 69 year is at home. bit silly your scenario, sure will we make 1 of them part of a family of 11.

The government is entitled to change its mind as evidence is acquired. The teachers are trying to hold the government to a provisional arrangement. The teachers should in fact volunteer to wait until last to make sure other people are vaccinated and show themselves to be mature children.
A 21 year old would be well able to cycle a bicycle so no need for the bus.
More clutching at straws.

khalessi

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The government is entitled to change its mind as evidence is acquired. The teachers are trying to hold the government to a provisional arrangement. The teachers should in fact volunteer to wait until last to make sure other people are vaccinated and show themselves to be mature children.
A 21 year old would be well able to cycle a bicycle so no need for the bus.
More clutching at straws.

Sure weren't they kite flying this weekend on vaccinating 18-30 year olds before 30-50year olds to guage public opinion. The only evidence required was they got the schools reopened then reneged on an agreement.

I would have no problem with that if they had put in other safety measures but they didn't as they dislike spending money on education. Nearly killed them to have to pay for soap in August last year.

The grant they provided became temporary on 23rd December (Christmas Holidays) and was decreased by 40%. This has not been reversed depsite knowledge of the B117 variant and others heading this way. This has resulted in not being able to afford masks for staff. They were asked to provide masks, which would have meant reversing the budget cut but they didnt.

Change the deal but ensure schools are safe, this is the issue. Antigen testing like UK was asked for, masks were asked for and nothing, it is a joke. The goal is to get to the holidays without spending money on schools.

You have them going on about catch up over the summer but meanwhile they have not improved numbers of SNAs or SET, which would help long term not just for holidays. They announced new school places in COrk ast week after a campaign for children wih additional needs only for it to be discovered the land offered was already sanctioned as a permanent location for another school.

They really havent a clue, it is all soundbites.

blanch152

khalessi wrote: »

The gov wanted the schools reopened and refused to put in new safety measures, it was finally agreed that they would vaccinate school staff after Elderly and Vunerable. Once they got schools opened, they changed their minds and unions were asking to be put back on list under Cohort 9 of crowded places, after elderly and vunerable.

13% of staff are under 30 in schools so the 21 year old is fable but sure we wil l play with your scenario, the 69 year old is retired and staying home, while the 21 year old is mixing with 150-250 per day people. They also dont have a car being 21 in all so travelling on the bus, meanwhile 69 year is at home. bit silly your scenario, sure will we make 1 of them part of a family of 11.

Let's just deal with this so-called refusal to put in new safety measures. As the government has refused to put them in, and schools have now been open for over a month, there must be huge deaths and hospitalisations among teachers who have caught Covid while working in schools. I am sure that you can present the statistics to back this up and prove that the teacher unions were not stoking unwarranted fears.

khalessi

blanch152 wrote: »

Let's just deal with this so-called refusal to put in new safety measures. As the government has refused to put them in, and schools have now been open for over a month, there must be huge deaths and hospitalisations among teachers who have caught Covid while working in schools. I am sure that you can present the statistics to back this up and prove that the teacher unions were not stoking unwarranted fears.

Study reported by Independant over 105 days Dec to MArch Schools open 37 days and 4512 teachers got Covid. Over the 105 days 10,000 retail workers caught covid. Study similar to ONS figures showing 114000 teachers (second Highest after HCWs) developed Long Covid.

Why is people who bash teachers always look for death as proof?

blanch152

khalessi wrote: »

Study reported by Independant over 105 days Dec to MArch Schools open 37 days and 4512 teachers got Covid. Over the 105 days 10,000 retail workers caught covid. Study similar to ONS figures showing 114000 teachers (second Highest after HCWs) developed Long Covid.

Why is people who bash teachers always look for death as proof?

Let me understand these statistics correctly.

You are telling me that 114,000 of the 65,815 teachers in Ireland have developed Long Covid?

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2020/2020-04-03_l-rs-infographic-education-in-ireland-a-statistical-snapshot_en.pdf

Or are you extrapolating misleading data from somewhere else?

khalessi

blanch152 wrote: »

Let me understand these statistics correctly.

You are telling me that 114,000 of the 65,815 teachers in Ireland have developed Long Covid?

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2020/2020-04-03_l-rs-infographic-education-in-ireland-a-statistical-snapshot_en.pdf

Or are you extrapolating misleading data from somewhere else?

THe ONS is UK

But in Ireland in Sept Oct Over 6000 teachers were put on Covid Leave

blanch152

khalessi wrote: »

THe ONS is UK

But in Ireland in Sept Oct Over 6000 teachers were put on Covid Leave

Retail workers don't get Covid Leave, neither do meat factory workers or truck drivers.

Another example of the privileged position that teachers have found themselves in compared to other real frontline workers during this pandemic.

P.S. You get Covid Leave if your family or yourself in a non-school situation are careless and you are a close contact, not because of something that happens in school, as you and others have repeatedly pointed out, close contacts in school are treated differently.

khalessi

blanch152 wrote: »

Retail workers don't get Covid Leave, neither do meat factory workers or truck drivers.

Another example of the privileged position that teachers have found themselves in compared to other real frontline workers during this pandemic.

P.S. You get Covid Leave if your family or yourself in a non-school situation are careless and you are a close contact, not because of something that happens in school, as you and others have repeatedly pointed out, close contacts in school are treated differently.

Not teachers fault they dont get covid leave. Maybe they could take it up with their unions, straw argument. ANd the other point you made is rubbish. In regard to Covid Leave, after The OLCS came back showing Covid Leave of 6000, HSE tightened up identification iof close contacts in schools as the subs were not availabe to make up shortfall

blanch152

khalessi wrote: »

Not teachers fault they dont get covid leave.

It is not everyone else's fault that teachers don't get vaccinated out of turn, but we still have people complaining about it ad nauseum.

teachinggal123

The point is that "covid leave" is not the same as getting covid.

khalessi

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not everyone else's fault that teachers don't get vaccinated out of turn, but we still have people complaining about it ad nauseum.

Ad nauseaum we have threads going back years from bitter people slagging off teachers but sure what can you do. If they threaten strike for safety they are wrong but it is ok that Doctors threaten strike for pay in pandemic. Yeah we get the double standard.

teachinggal123

khalessi wrote: »

Ad nauseaum we have threads going back years from bitter people slagging off teachers but sure what can you do. If they threaten strike for safety they are wrong but it is ok that Doctors threaten strike for pay in pandemic. Yeah we get the double standard.

In fairness khalessi, just because you are being questioned about your figures does not make this 'teacher bashing' from 'bitter people'.

These are perfectly valid questions which you don't seem to be able to answer.

Are you just going to ignore the questions and shout 'teacher bashing" when called out on something? Maybe you should just answer the question and try to support the claims you are making.

khalessi

teachinggal123 wrote: »

In fairness khalessi, just because you are being questioned about your figures does not make this 'teacher bashing' from 'bitter people'.

These are perfectly valid questions which you done seem to be able to answer.

Are you just going to ignore the questions and shout 'teacher bashing" when called out on something? Maybe you should just answer the question and try to support the claims you are making.

IN fairness the bitter comment referred historically to threads but thats ok ad they have been answered thank you perhaps you missed the answers.

teachinggal123

khalessi wrote: »

IN fairness the bitter comment referred historically to threads but thats ok ad they have been answered thank you perhaps you missed the answers.

Hmmmmm, I do seem to have missed the answer to this ...

khalessi wrote: »

Study reported by Independant over 105 days Dec to MArch Schools open 37 days and 4512 teachers got Covid. Over the 105 days 10,000 retail workers caught covid. Study similar to ONS figures showing 114000 teachers (second Highest after HCWs) developed Long Covid.

And the follow up that "covid leave" is not the same as having covid (which seems to invalidate your argument totally).

Perhaps you could enlighten me?

khalessi

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Hmmmmm, I do seem to have missed the answer to this ...



Perhaps you could enlighten me?

I am sure you can read back

teachinggal123

khalessi wrote: »

I am sure you can read back

I have read back and I don't see your answer to blanch152's points.