Garden Advice

karlitob

Hi all

Appreciate your advice please. I’ve a fairly big garden ~ 350 sq m. But it’s not in great condition. It’s hard to mow because it’s so uneven and bumpy. And it’s got different levels at the back of the garden.

Last year I cleared out 50tonnes from the back garden in trees, hedges, ivy, brambles and all sorts - all through the side access as it’s too narrow for a digger. So this year I want to get the garden into some bit of shape.

The aim is to have the little one play on it. And to be able to mow it easily. And maybe look some it respectable. At the moment, it’s really challenging making me dread wanting to go out in it. It’s more weed than grass, it’s more thatch than grass, the grass that does grow is in uneven tufts making me think it’s different types of grass. The previous owner had tonnes of concrete buried under the garden and near the boundary which I’ve removed and between that and the removal of hedges and trees means the ground is very uneven. We don’t want artificial grass.

The other thing is that it’s uneven at the back half. It rises about a foot from the front. And within the back half there’s a path against the wall - about a meter wide that’s as flat as the front so I might need a step to accommodate that.

We don’t note any drainage issues. We get good quality sun throughout the day. The earth seems good loamy soil also. No problems on that front.

So I know the following can be used to improve the garden
- scarify
- aerate
- top dress
- overseed.

- I’ve seen people use a sod cutter to remove the top growth which makes sense to me.

My question is: can I put topsoil on top of all the grass and weeds and all sorts and make a new lawn, and even the whole thing out. Or will it just not work. Or will a sod cutter be q useful method - and if so, what’s it like on the bumps.

I can’t get a digger down the side access (I’ve investigated this loads and it might take a crane but that’s expensive) and while I enjoy physical work, my heart is sinking at the prospect of removing tonnes of earth by hand and I understand the skip companies don’t like topsoil removal.


Really appreciate any help.

toffeeshel

karlitob wrote: »

Hi all

Appreciate your advice please. I’ve a fairly big garden ~ 350 sq m. But it’s not in great condition. It’s hard to mow because it’s so uneven and bumpy. And it’s got different levels at the back of the garden.

Last year I cleared out 50tonnes from the back garden in trees, hedges, ivy, brambles and all sorts - all through the side access as it’s too narrow for a digger. So this year I want to get the garden into some bit of shape.

The aim is to have the little one play on it. And to be able to mow it easily. And maybe look some it respectable. At the moment, it’s really challenging making me dread wanting to go out in it. It’s more weed than grass, it’s more thatch than grass, the grass that does grow is in uneven tufts making me think it’s different types of grass. The previous owner had tonnes of concrete buried under the garden and near the boundary which I’ve removed and between that and the removal of hedges and trees means the ground is very uneven. We don’t want artificial grass.

The other thing is that it’s uneven at the back half. It rises about a foot from the front. And within the back half there’s a path against the wall - about a meter wide that’s as flat as the front so I might need a step to accommodate that.

We don’t note any drainage issues. We get good quality sun throughout the day. The earth seems good loamy soil also. No problems on that front.

So I know the following can be used to improve the garden
- scarify
- aerate
- top dress
- overseed.

- I’ve seen people use a sod cutter to remove the top growth which makes sense to me.

My question is: can I put topsoil on top of all the grass and weeds and all sorts and make a new lawn, and even the whole thing out. Or will it just not work. Or will a sod cutter be q useful method - and if so, what’s it like on the bumps.

I can’t get a digger down the side access (I’ve investigated this loads and it might take a crane but that’s expensive) and while I enjoy physical work, my heart is sinking at the prospect of removing tonnes of earth by hand and I understand the skip companies don’t like topsoil removal.


Really appreciate any help.[/quote

I’m not a gardener and definitely not an expert but aren’t there black sheets of plastic that you can put over your lawn/weeds etc that stops them growing. You could put top soil on top of the sheets and start afresh.
Again I repeat that I am not an expert and this may be flawed

Baybay

Someone will no doubt have a better idea on what to do that I have but in my opinion, don’t put topsoil over what you have. It’d be a waste of time & money as everything currently there will eventually make its way through, especially weeds.

Decide what you want first.
Lawns are fine, especially with children but consider how much you want to mow every week.
Swings & slides?
Privacy might be something you want to address.
Patio, bbq, entertaining space for family & friends.
Maybe a clothes line or a pergola might feature in your plans.

Would intersecting circles, each containing some or all of what’s mentioned above suit you?
My point is, if you want paths, planted, paved or barked areas, these may reduce the need for the amount of work that you’d need to do with what you have. Of course, there’d be other jobs to do but it’d be varied & might not all need doing at the same time.

Otherwise, I think if lawn is the way forward, a rotavator might help break everything up for raking, picking & levelling.

Deub

No expert as well but I would think rotavating the entire area should solve your uneven part. If not, add some top soil where you have “holes”.
It will bury the current grass/weed and you can start fresh.

karlitob

Good advice. Thank you both.

I’m planning patio etc. Currently in the design phase. Might even post a few pics for comments at some stage.

But the garden will still be somewhat large. Maybe not all 350sq m.

I get a little confused on the purpose of a rotavator. I didn’t think it was strong enough to chunk through grass. But will investigate further on this advice.

Presumably I should scarify first so I’d have less to rotavate and less ‘product’ to have to break down?

looksee

Putting down weed membrane will definitely not help in this situation. Apart from under paths I would not use membrane at all in a domestic garden.

My feeling would be that a rotovator might be the first step, then rake level, then decide what you are going to do. Rotovating will not permanently remove the sods and weeds though, in most cases it will just chop them into small bits to make them more widely distributed. You do need to remove them, but without removing the top soil. Don't get rid of the top soil, bringing in new soil is just bringing in weeds that haven't grown yet, you might as well deal with them now. If you rotovate you could then possibly rake off the worst of the growth and stack it tidily somewhere to rot down into compost - that will take maybe a year and even then some of the more persistent weed roots may have to be taken out when you use it.

A pic of the garden would be a help in knowing how bad the situation is. Also what you want in the garden beyond grass. Will you need a shed? Will you put in trees (seems a pity to have taken out all the old trees, but granted they may have been in poor condition.)

Edit: you answered while I was typing, we really need a pic. It sounds as though the area is a bit beyond scarifying at the moment, but maybe we are 'seeing' something different to what you are

karlitob

Please see photos attached. Apologies if they are difficult to zoom into. My phone takes very large sized photos and there’s an upload limit.

The garden looks ok now because I hacked it with my lawnmower the other day. And maybe it’s not as bad as I think it is.

Appreciate comments. Thanks to all who have posted.

looksee

The pics seem to be previews. From what can be seen it doesn't look all that bad, as you said. It depends on what kind of finish you want, but if it is mainly for playing on I would not worry about high quality grass, a mix of grass and clover, buttercup, daisy, whatever else grows would be tougher and more interesting, and better for the environment. Dig out thistles, docks and possible nettles as you see them.

You should be able to hack the tops off the lumpy bits and level the hollows, add a bit of commercial compost and top up the seed.

Once you have got it to a useable state you can dig out bits of it as you need it for patio, flower beds etc. Certainly get any patio or other work done before doing any fine finishing of the grass as there is a good chance it will be damaged.

karlitob

Hope one or two of these can be posted.

karlitob

And this. I’ve put in some marks to highlight the mounds or troughs.

karlitob

One more. There’s quite a divot in this.

karlitob

Last one. Sorry about the multiples.

karlitob

looksee wrote: »

The pics seem to be previews. From what can be seen it doesn't look all that bad, as you said. It depends on what kind of finish you want, but if it is mainly for playing on I would not worry about high quality grass, a mix of grass and clover, buttercup, daisy, whatever else grows would be tougher and more interesting, and better for the environment. Dig out thistles, docks and possible nettles as you see them.

You should be able to hack the tops off the lumpy bits and level the hollows, add a bit of commercial compost and top up the seed.

Once you have got it to a useable state you can dig out bits of it as you need it for patio, flower beds etc. Certainly get any patio or other work done before doing any fine finishing of the grass as there is a good chance it will be damaged.

Thanks for that. Should’ve taken the pic before I cut it last week.

Agree regarding the patio. I do need to clear a section at the back for a possible garden room. It’s very boggy back there - a very old compost area.

The more I think of it the more it’s not as bad as it was last year. I can’t explain to you how bad it was to mow because of the ingrown brambles.

There was an old vegetable garden back there - no beds just dug into the ground and whatever landed on it afterwards is not grass. It’s clumpy and looks like really tall stems of potatoes.


I’ve mentioned scarifying a few times. I seem obsessed. Is it better to do now to expose weeds making them easier to pull up, and having less to rotavate?

mickuhaha

You could start with lawn weed killer, get some soil and fill the bad holes , and reseed. That would be the fastest and keep the garden in use.

looksee

I'd say it is rescuable, though the one you mentioned divots is a bit rough. Still I think with some manual levelling, scarifying ( ) the addition of some new topsoil and new seed it should be possible to improve it. The soil looks poor there. The stuff beneath the tree is 100% buttercup. That's a little excessively buttercup even for my tastes, so you might want to do something with it. However it is probably in the shade of the tree and that is why there is no grass so it would probably be a waste of time trying to replace it with lawn. Possibly a mulched or gravelled or paved surface? Or dig out the buttercups, improve the soil and plant hardy geraniums which would look lovely and are harmless to people/children. Once established they are unkillable.

wrangler

I'd let it green up, ensuring all the weeds are growing, then spray with roundup.
Leave it a month then until the weeds are properly dead and rotten.
Hire a rotavator and cultivate it up, it'd be easy to level then.
Sow grass seed, make sure that it's watered after sowing if there's a drought.
You'll always regret it if you don't do it right now that you're at it

PS, a micro digger is only 72cms wide and are lovely yoke to level a lawn with a levelling rake and bucket.
You could nearly bring it through the house to get to the garden.

karlitob

wrangler wrote: »

I'd let it green up, ensuring all the weeds are growing, then spray with roundup.
Leave it a month then until the weeds are properly dead and rotten.
Hire a rotavator and cultivate it up, it'd be easy to level then.
Sow grass seed, make sure that it's watered after sowing if there's a drought.
You'll always regret it if you don't do it right now that you're at .

Thanks for that. Is roundup effective. I’ve used it on one area previously and didn’t do anything really. Maybe I didn’t use it correctly.

karlitob

So try regard the rotavator - does it not end up a bit of a mess like this?


https://youtu.be/XUN1qVAhomQ

wrangler

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for that. Is roundup effective. I’ve used it on one area previously and didn’t do anything really. Maybe I didn’t use it correctly.

weeds have to be green and growing to be able to take it in, so wait for nice growthy weather

Deub

karlitob wrote: »

So try regard the rotavator - does it not end up a bit of a mess like this?


https://youtu.be/XUN1qVAhomQ

If the soil is compacted, yes. If it is the case, you can wait for a good rainy day and do it the next day as you have no drainage issue.

wrangler

karlitob wrote: »

So try regard the rotavator - does it not end up a bit of a mess like this?


https://youtu.be/XUN1qVAhomQ

That's why I recommend killing the grass/ weeds that's there, it'll take a few runs to get it right and lots of patience
Try to hire a self propelled rotavator with driven wheels, the on on your video would pull the arms off you.

This is like the one I use, big difference in the finish there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jAr6K_hB7U

karlitob

wrangler wrote: »

That's why I recommend killing the grass/ weeds that's there, it'll take a few runs to get it right and lots of patience
Try to hire a self propelled rotavator with driven wheels, the on on your video would pull the arms off you.

This is like the one I use, big difference in the finish there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jAr6K_hB7U

Serious bit of kit. Very nice. Can you rent in Ireland?

wrangler

karlitob wrote: »

Serious bit of kit. Very nice. Can you rent in Ireland?

Here's one in enniscorthy, I'm sure there's plenty around the country.

https://www.powerplant.ie/our-range/landscape-garden/8-hp-rotavator/

cuculainn

karlitob wrote: »

Good advice. Thank you both.

I’m planning patio etc. Currently in the design phase. Might even post a few pics for comments at some stage.

But the garden will still be somewhat large. Maybe not all 350sq m.

I get a little confused on the purpose of a rotavator. I didn’t think it was strong enough to chunk through grass. But will investigate further on this advice.

Presumably I should scarify first so I’d have less to rotavate and less ‘product’ to have to break down?

I would spray roundup on the existing weeds/grass before doing anything. Then dig/ rotovate. .. then leave idle to let the seeds you disturbed germinate and then roundup again. Then your topsoil if you are adding topsoil.
I would even leave the topsoil to rest for a few weeks and give that a spary of roundup if anything germinated (might be overkill) and then seed.
This is based on rushing our lawn and having to deal with weeds in lawn from topsoil brought in

Edit: based on the images you could also create some features and limit the amount of lawn that needs repair. What about little wildflower areas where the ground is bad?

Best of luck with it. Either way I think you have a nice garden with alot of potential.

spuddy4711

If you rotovate and use chemicals to nuke everything, then level, allow to settle, nuke again, level

again, then reseed, you will finally have a perfect lawn, which will, to my mind, look artificial.

Start by raising the height of the mower blade, give what grass you have a chance to improve.

Feed with natural products, safe for your children. After 2 or 3 months, focus on the rough patches,

sow wild flowers, that area at the end would be great for Rhubarb. By all means have an area for

putting practice, but pristine lawns aren’t the be all. And you should always have something to do in

the garden. Good luck with the project, a great opportunity.

randomguy

Just want to add that from your initial post I was expecting a bombsite, but now seeing the photos, it looks like you have a perfect blank canvass for a lovely garden. Appreciate that a huge amount of work went to getting this far, but the hard work is done, and now you can start with the fun stuff.

My only advice is that it is much harder to level a lawn after you've got the grass grown, so decide how much is going to be lawn, kill whatever is pure weed in that area, rotavate, see if you can just level using the soil already there, get it properly level and settled, and reseed. Do a bit of research on the type of grass you want (will depend on direct sun or not, preference for native mix, whether much foot traffic or not, etc).

Good luck.

CelticRambler

Having seen the photos, I'd be very definitely in the "why kill yourself over it?" camp! I have loads of moles in my garden (not in Ireland) and I could spend all day, every day trying to keep it flat. I usually knock the tops of the older molehills with a rake before I run over the lawn with the mower, but in time it takes me to get the machine out, another two or three will have appeared. :mad:

I went to great trouble to level one area, one year when we were given an above-ground swimming pool; it served its purpose, for the few months we had the pool up ... but a year later, you wouldn't know what area I'd worked on. The only time it really matters is when we're positioning chairs or tables on the grass - and that's only a question of shifting things till they find the right level.

However, if you do decide to rotovate, I have a bigger (wider) version of the one in your link.

karlitob wrote: »

the rotavator - does it not end up a bit of a mess like this?

https://youtu.be/XUN1qVAhomQ

That video only shows the start of the process. Here are "before" and "after" shots of an area I rotovated last year:

Before:


After:


As you can see from the changing position of the sun, it took hardly any time at all; and that "after" photo was before I used a rake on the soil to level it. From a practical point of view, it's easier to rotovate bigger areas than smaller ones, and (in my opinion) more useful for areas that are going to be vegetable or flower beds, so take your time to figure out a long-term design.

spuddy4711

The concrete block rectangle may have been base for a greenhouse. If you decide on starting from scratch, think about removing these blocks and that path alongside the wall. Though drainage is not a problem, you could use the rubble to make a French drain.
The “Elephants feet” stepping stones may look better if you invert them.
That design of clothes hanger tends to be a focus point, at some stage consider retractable clothes lines, and have your eyes drawn to some feature in your garden.

karlitob

cuculainn wrote: »

I would spray roundup on the existing weeds/grass before doing anything. Then dig/ rotovate. .. then leave idle to let the seeds you disturbed germinate and then roundup again. Then your topsoil if you are adding topsoil.
I would even leave the topsoil to rest for a few weeks and give that a spary of roundup if anything germinated (might be overkill) and then seed.
This is based on rushing our lawn and having to deal with weeds in lawn from topsoil brought in

Edit: based on the images you could also create some features and limit the amount of lawn that needs repair. What about little wildflower areas where the ground is bad?

Best of luck with it. Either way I think you have a nice garden with alot of potential.

Many thanks for your time. This seems like good advice. I have big plans for the back garden. I’d love a nice lawn that I would enjoy mowing and some pleasant trees and flowers from spring to autumn. I’m not at the stage yet of giving the headspace to vegetable garden but I plan to do veg in a pot to get me going.

Thanks again.

cuculainn

karlitob wrote: »

Many thanks for your time. This seems like good advice. I have big plans for the back garden. I’d love a nice lawn that I would enjoy mowing and some pleasant trees and flowers from spring to autumn. I’m not at the stage yet of giving the headspace to vegetable garden but I plan to do veg in a pot to get me going.

Thanks again.

Well if thinking veg down the road. You can build a few raised beds easily which would cut down the area needing repair. Check out no dig raised beds on youtube.

karlitob

A poster made a point that part of my garden was heavy with buttercups. I’ve been reading a bit since then on buttercups and their preference for wet ground. This part of the garden seems softer underfoot, a bit wetter. It’s at the back of the garden, raised a foot from the lower part of the garden and up until last year was heavily overgrown. A few sycamore trees, tonnes of ivy, a boggy compost heap, an apple tree, brambles, and these quick growing leafy plants that have a very wet stem when I chop into them with a brush cutter.

I plan on putting a garden room back there and am worried about future drainage.

How do you assess the quality of drainage? And how would you determine when you need French drains or a soak away.

Thanks in advance.