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Renting with pets

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    #182
    forestgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    Lesalare wrote: »
    By reading your posts, I am gathering your dog lives outside for most of the time?

    He lives outside all of the time,we are in the country side and he has all the space he needs and only goes into his own house at bedtime,I do understand some dogs loving being by the fire that was my last dog but from a land lords perspective they may not want them.I absolutely love dogs and agree they need love as much as food and to many people get them as toys and never even bring them for a walk


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    #183
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The RTB would disagree, a rent review and eviction notice must be in writing, an email is invalid. Tenancies disputes are covered by the RTB.

    This isn't a rent review or eviction notice though.


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    #184
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Again, I’m talking about what the RTB interprets “in writing” to mean. If they interpret it to mean an email in a dispute in relation to a lease, how could they at the same time prohibit an email to be used as a written means of serving a notice?

    As a matter of interest, are you saying that as an email is recognised legally as a form of written communication, the RTB are wrong to interpret the term “in writing” in the RTA legislation as a written document for serving notice?
    I have no idea whether the RTB are compliant or not and I don't really care, I'm simply making the point that you can't just disregard an email on the basis that "it's an email and therefore not in writing".


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    #185
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    forestgirl wrote: »
    He lives outside all of the time,we are in the country side and he has all the space he needs and only goes into his own house at bedtime,I do understand some dogs loving being by the fire that was my last dog but from a land lords perspective they may not want them.I absolutely love dogs and agree they need love as much as food and to many people get them as toys and never even bring them for a walk

    A dog also needs companionship and not be stored outside when it's sub zero temperature. Being "in the countryside" is irrelevant to him having "all the space he needs" unless he is free to roam said countryside, and I'm sure you are aware that is not advised.


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    #186
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    This isn't a rent review or eviction notice though.

    No, but in that particular case the lease stipulated the permission must be “in writing from the landlord”, if she disputes it with the RTB, their interpretation of what “in writing” means may not include emails, as it does not in other correspondence. I do appreciate that the permission was not a notice, but the RTB are clear on what they perceive “in writing” to mean. In other legal matters, email is accepted as “in writing”, but that seemingly cannot be applied to tenancies, otherwise emails would be an accepted form to satisfy the RTA requirement for the correspondence to be “in writing”, we know that is not the case.


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    #187
    hamburgham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Any animal inside a house and the place will have a smell,I have a very large outside dog that comes in but I find myself washing the floors very frequently and he is only in a very short time I'd use dettol in the boiling water to ,I think a lot of pet owners can not get the smell as they are so used to it

    That is just not true.


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    #188
    hamburgham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    Lesalare wrote: »
    A very large dog will have a very different smell to a 3.5kg cat, or a small Jack Russell or Pug etc... All dogs need to be bathed regularly. If you keep your animal clean you house does not smell.

    I have asked numerous mates if they smell any semblance of my cat in my apartment and every single one has said no.

    Houses only smell of dog if the owners don't wash their dogs regularly. I know this as my sister's house stinks of dog at time when she brings them out walking, they get wet and she doesn't bathe them.

    I never wash my dog and there is absolutely no smell in my house. Granted she never gets wet as she point blank refuses to go out if there’s any hint or rain.


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    #189
    Lesalare
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭Lesalare


    hamburgham wrote: »
    A terrier. I brush her but no never wash her. I can absolutely guarantee that there is no smell in my house.

    Fair enough. Short haired smaller dogs are less akin to smells. Great you regularly brush her and keep her in good shape :)

    My cat is 15 but looks like a kitten. I think she was the runt of the litter. She's not caused me 1 single issue with landlords in all her time over 4 houses be it in Melbourne, Sydney or Dublin. She doesn't smell at all.

    Non animal people are odd.


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    #190
    forestgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    hamburgham wrote: »
    Your dog needs company not just space and it’s often too cold and miserable for them to be outside.

    I guarantee my dog is not lonely at all,we are here all of the time and my dog prefers the really cold weather and rain and he hides away from the sun.I would absolutely not keep a dog and ignore him as that would be just so cruel


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    #191
    CosmicFool
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    We moved into a house early last year and got a puppy unexpectedly a few weeks later. Haven't told the landlord. We trained him quiet well and he hasn't destroyed the place other than a few holes in the garden. Unfortunately the breed was bred to be ratters so that unfortunately isn't easy to train out of him. We keep on top of them.


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    #192
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    folks this is the accommodation & property forum. Please take the general discussion of your pets to the Pets & Petcare forum.

    Some off-topic posts deleted.


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    #193
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Lesalare wrote: »
    A very large dog will have a very different smell to a 3.5kg cat, or a small Jack Russell or Pug etc... All dogs need to be bathed regularly. If you keep your animal clean you house does not smell.

    I have asked numerous mates if they smell any semblance of my cat in my apartment and every single one has said no.

    Houses only smell of dog if the owners don't wash their dogs regularly. I know this as my sister's house stinks of dog at time when she brings them out walking, they get wet and she doesn't bathe them.

    That question is like a wife asking does my bum look big in this.
    There is only one answer you can give, no matter what the real answer is :)

    Houses with dogs and inside cats ALWAYS stink to people who dont live with such pets.

    Before I had my own pet I used to smell the cats or dogs in anyones house i went into that owned one, the second the front door opened. Especially litter trays.
    But since I got my own, i could walk into any house and not know there was a pet there until i saw them.


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    #194
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Antares35 wrote: »
    An email is legally binding and constitutes "in writing" for the purposes of the law.


    Not to the RTB it doesnt.


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    #195
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Not to the RTB it doesnt.

    Source please?


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    #196
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Source please?

    The Residential Tenancies Act states notices must be “in writing”. See sections 22(2) and 62(1).

    The RTB are clear in their interpretation that “in writing” does not include email, see point no.1.

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

    I concede the tenant was not being served a notice when she was given permission to keep the dog, merely that the RTB construe the term “in writing” to exclude emails.


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    #197
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Source please?


    https://www.rtb.ie/


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    #198
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The Residential Tenancies Act states notices must be “in writing”. See sections 22(2) and 62(1).

    The RTB are clear in their interpretation that “in writing” does not include email, see point no.1.

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

    I concede the tenant was not being served a notice when she was given permission to keep the dog, merely that the RTB construe the term “in writing” to exclude emails.

    That's specifically in the context of a notice of termination. There is nothing to suggest that applies to all communications.


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    #199
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    That's specifically in the context of a notice of termination. There is nothing to suggest that applies to all communications.

    Maybe you should consider, If emails are allowed in other communications where “in writing” is required, why not in notices?


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    #200
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Maybe you should consider, If emails are allowed in other communications where “in writing” is required, why not in notices?

    Where does it say that "in writing " is required for other communication? And if in writing is required, why is the supposedly professional estate agent communicating by email?


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    #201
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Where does it say that "in writing " is required for other communication? And if in writing is required, why is the supposedly professional estate agent communicating by email?


    He has explained this to you at least 10 times.
    You are the only person who cant get to grips with it.


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    #202
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Where does it say that "in writing " is required for other communication? And if in writing is required, why is the supposedly professional estate agent communicating by email?

    I’m not going back through this whole thread, but I’m nearly certain the tenant required permission in writing to keep a pet, but further down the article it says she got an email from the EA. The LL appears to now dispute giving permission and along with MC is saying pets are not allowed.

    What are you hoping to gain from this? The RTB site literally outlines that their interpretation of the meaning of “in writing” does not include emails, this is what supports my opinion, unless you think they would acknowledge “in writing” does include emails, and then we must ask why that does not apply to notices.


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    #203
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I’m not going back through this whole thread, but I’m nearly certain the tenant required permission in writing to keep a pet, but further down the article it says she got an email from the EA. The LL appears to now dispute giving permission and along with MC is saying pets are not allowed.

    What are you hoping to gain from this? The RTB site literally outlines that their interpretation of the meaning of “in writing” does not include emails, this is what supports my opinion, unless you think they would acknowledge “in writing” does include emails, and then we must ask why that does not apply to notices.

    That RTB page specifically refers to notice of terminations only. It doesn't support any opinion about any other communications with tenant and landlord.


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    #204
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    He has explained this to you at least 10 times.
    You are the only person who cant get to grips with it.

    There is nothing on the RTB site or in legislation that requires general communication with the tenant to be in writing.


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    #205
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I give up.
    You are right and everyone else, including all those who found they had invalid notices with the rtb are wrong.
    Ask the RTB and you can correct everyone else with what they tell you.


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    #206
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I give up.
    You are right and everyone else, including all those who found they had invalid notices with the rtb are wrong.
    Ask the RTB and you can correct everyone else with what they tell you.

    This isn't about a notice.


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    #207
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    This isn't about a notice.

    It is about the RTBs interpretation of what “in writing” means though.


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    #208
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,552 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Where does it say that "in writing " is required for other communication? And if in writing is required, why is the supposedly professional estate agent communicating by email?

    It covers them nothing can be used in RTB.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #209
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    It is about the RTBs interpretation of what “in writing” means though.

    The RTB don't get to change the law.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec9


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    #210
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The RTB don't get to change the law.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec9

    It appears they do get to interpret them though in their position as arbitrator of disputes relating to tenancy legislation, see my earlier post relating to the sections of the RTA which refer to “in writing” and the RTBs interpretation of what “in writing’ means.

    I’m not sure that I have anything further to add to this for you.


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    #211
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,967 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    It appears they do get to interpret them though in their position as arbitrator of disputes relating to tenancy legislation, see my earlier post relating to the sections of the RTA which refer to “in writing” and the RTBs interpretation of what “in writing’ means.

    I’m not sure that I have anything further to add to this for you.

    You're not adding anything "for me". The RTB legislation is specific about the need for notices to be in writing. There is nothing in legislation requiring information about pets to be in writing.

    It's that simple.


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