Is FF gone as a party?

RandomViewer

Feisar wrote: »

Yes, it's all well and good chasing the woke crowd as you say but ultimately pointless if they don't vote.

Huge number of under 30s aren't registered to vote, politics is in as big a decline as religion,

Beechwoodspark

Harris didn’t even finish the first year of the journalism course by the way

The very idea that he has joined tik tok says all you need to know about that clown

jimwallace197

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

There's a lot of wishful thinking on display here.

Fine Gael are either the number 1 or a close 2nd in every recent poll. That's remarkable considering that they've been in power for a decade.

They're not going anywhere.

Polls dont mean s*** sunshine, open your eyes. Last election, they were third behind Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein. Only got into government because Martin could not contemplate going into government with Sinn Fein.

Not surprising considering he is a school teacher from Cork. The sooner he is replaced the better for Fianna Fail, when we have a Sinn Fein/Fianna Fail co-alition and the removal of Fine Gael permanently as a party, the better it will be for our country.

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Even if FF and FG merge they'll lose the older Republican vote in FFs case and the hard right support of FG, FFs will transfer to SF but the former FGers will be putting the likes of Gemma and Delores Cahill in the Dail

Older FFs will rot in hell before they vote for SF.

Sammy2012

dulpit wrote: »

So not a blueshirt anyway?

As much as you might not like the politicians named, doesn't get around the fact they're likely to be one of the 2 big parties for the foreseeable.

An interesting thing to think about is what will happen to Sinn Féin voters after they end up in government and can't deliver all of their promises. Will they stay loyal or drift elsewhere?

I think people want an alternative to the other 2. There is an opening for someone to start a party for the people. People will vote for SF in the next election as they are fed up of the other 2 and all their rubbish. But there is a huge % of the population who want someone to vote for who will actually represent them.

Oranage2

Depends how sinn fein do, hard to see them not getting into power after the recent **** show that's FF/FG. Though FG have the better politicians at the moment FF is still the bigger brand . Hard to see them splitting

mikemac2

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Harris didn’t even finish the first year of the journalism course by the way

The very idea that he has joined tik tok says all you need to know about that clown

If education mattered then Michael McDowell as one of the highest paid barristers in the state should have been the most amazing Minister for Justice

Albert Reynolds was a millionaire entering politics and never went to college

You don’t need a 4 year degree to be a leader. The details can be done by the permanent civil service staff.

jimwallace197

dulpit wrote: »

So not a blueshirt anyway?

As much as you might not like the politicians named, doesn't get around the fact they're likely to be one of the 2 big parties for the foreseeable.

An interesting thing to think about is what will happen to Sinn Féin voters after they end up in government and can't deliver all of their promises. Will they stay loyal or drift elsewhere?

Not deliver on their promises?? That sounds very familiar to Fine Gael & Fianna Fail, yah? Dont let hypocrisy get in the way of your criticism of Sinn Fein.

jimmycrackcorm

I says wrote: »

fg also.

I Am The Law wrote: »

Yes.

Deleted User wrote: »

can’t see FG going anywhere.

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Fine Gael gone sooner imo

Absolutely ridiculous stuff.
FF voters have a choice.
- go for the resurgent republicanism that is SF.
- go for the only centrist orientated part - FG.
- Stick with a declining FF

I think that SF will see more success in the next election. But their populist agenda will see them unstuck because they can't deliver what they promise. They have no history of actually delivering north or south unless you count stopping shootings and bombing people to bits as a win.

But SF is FF's successor. There's a cohort of people who won't ever vote for FF again because of what they did to the country. They're lost.

We're arriving politically into the age of left vs right. People who pay for the people who don't. FF have no natural place in this environment.

Zebra3

dulpit wrote: »

Not a chance FG would merge with FF, there's no benefit to them in doing so. They (FG) have carved out a nice spot for themselves as the obvious main party that people will vote for if they don't want Sinn Féin in power. Fianna Fáil have no stand out policy areas they can cling to. They're not left enough for the likes of Labour or the Soc Dems, they're not green enough for the greens, they're not right enough for Fine Gael and not republican enough for sinn fein.

Apart from traditional ff voters who are dying off, who's left to vote for them?

Yep.

FF destroyed young people's chances over the last 10+ years and they are loathed by under 30s as a result.

Absolutely no talent coming through the ranks either.

FG will always attract those who couldn't give a toss about the less fortunate in society (though many like Thatcher will dispute its' existence).

Martin avoided being the first FF leader not to get the main gig, but that's only a matter of time before it happens. He'd be well out on his ear too if there was anyone capable of replacing him even though he sets such a low bar.

BonnieSituation

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Fine Gael gone sooner imo, long history of families supporting Fianna Fail in bigger numbers in this country however incompetent their party leader seems currently. He will be gone soon.

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Get up the yard, look at the state of their main politicians. Simon Harris who couldnt even finish a journalism degree but feels he can pontificate about covid 19 as a health minister without knowing 19 stood for the year it was found rather than the amount of corona viruses. On top of this, an absolute dope trying to appeal to the younger people with his tik tok videos.

Coveney, a miserable s**** if there ever was one. Clueless in negotiations with Britain in relation to Brexit and even more clueless in relation to which countries we should quarantine now, over a year after the pandemic started.

Heather Humphreys, I think anyone who has read the news lately knows everything there is to know about this hypocrite. I believe a second whistle blower has stepped forward about her now. To top it off, the brass neck on her defending Varadkar as she is about to take the justice ministry portfolio when he clearly committed a criminal act.

Helen McEntee, inherited a position from her Dad who was prominent in the Meath region. Nepotism at its finest, has never worked a day in the real world. Far out of her depth as the justice minister. More interested in going after men more than anything. A true feminist in that equality is not the aim of what she is trying to achieve but the suppression of male rights.

Josepha Madigan, we all know her involvement in the Maria Bailey scandal and how she encouraged her to go ahead with that claim, especially since it was Madigans family law firm Bailey went to. On top of this, wanting to remove the Kerryman newspaper name and replacing it with Kerry People seems to be high on her list of woke priorities in the time of an international crisis. Extremely hypocritical in that she campaigns vigorously against methadone clinics and travellers settling anywhere near her south Dublin constituency but is happy for them to be placed elsewhere. Not surprised her Dad's family is from Mayo tbh.

And Finally, Varadkar, I think we all know about him at this stage.

The sooner Fine Gael are removed permanently from our countries history the better.

You're a credit to your Cumann.

spring lane jack

mikemac2 wrote: »

If education mattered then Michael McDowell as one of the highest paid barristers in the state should have been the most amazing Minister for Justice

You don’t need a 4 year degree to be a leader. The details can be done by the permanent civil service staff.

I call him the Minister for Heroin use Expansion. He was a useless minister. The two Cannabis Resin droughts of 2005 and 2006 led to Heroin use spiralling out of control and infesting all our towns and cities. The resumption of Poppy farming in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban meant the crap was easily available. He did nothing to stop it. Cork was pretty much Heroin free till that prick became minister.

Tyrone212

My Dad's family were all FF. Out of the 9 of them, none of them have voted for FF in over 10-12 years and they all used to. Can't see any of them returning tbh, they don't like party anymore and none of them rate MM. I don't see that changing even when he leaves.

There were once seen as a republican party but not anymore. They've lost that vote as well by a good chunk. MM seems against a UI.

PCeeeee

The problem with FF for me is their TD's. The number of them that strike me as even semi-competent could be counted on one hand. You can argue the 'macro' politics of it (if that is even a phrase) but FF have very few people that the electorate want. IMO, it's that simple.

Gregor Samsa

I severely doubt FF will disappear in the next two Dáil terms. The next 8 months of the Covid crisis are crucial to what happens next politically. If the vaccine rollout kicks in to gear, things open up by the summer, and the tourism/hospitality/retail side of the economy starts to recover, then the FG/FF coalition will continue to the end of its term, and will stand a good chance of getting back in next time.

However, if the vaccine rollout continues to stall, and summer is still under major restrictions, then the coalition will probably fall by autumn, and SF will be in a ripe position to be the majority Government party in the next term. The'll have to do it with a hodgepodge of the smaller left parties, though. Which won't be an easy ride for them, and I can't see that surviving a full term. If FF, FG and whatever remains of Labour and the Greens manage to keep snapping at the heels as opposition during that time, they'd stand a chance of coming back the following term in some combination of a coalition.

FF's major problem is that they have no upcoming personalities, so there's absolutely nothing to make them stand out. FG, for all their many faults, at least have relative youth on the side of most of their biggest names, which gives them the potential for longevity. Labour have completely lost their way and their voice, and the Greens suffer from both the fact that "green" policies have been adopted by pretty much all parties in some way, shape or form, and that they tend to attract idealists who don't have much time for party dficippine - so it's very difficult for them to act as one when it matters.

SF's, who used to be the absolute masters of party discipline, are beginning to see that being a bigger player - and without a Messianic leader - makes this more difficult. And going onto a coalition with the likes of PBP will be severely testing for keeping discipline. What they do have going for them is a general feeling that their chance has come, so that's a momentum that probably won't stop until it is realised. So they will get their chance for sure, but the big question then will be how they handle that, especially given who they will have to depend on to do it.

If SF went into government and did a good job, managing to complete a full term and leave then country in a better state than they got it, then FF would certainly be in existential trouble, as there isn't room for both them and FG as opposition parties for longer than one term, and FF would lose more to SF than FG would.

Topgear on Dave

Completely writing off a party with 38 tds and 276 councillors. Lads these threads are wild. :cool:

Deleted User wrote: »

Older FFs will rot in hell before they vote for SF.

That will be a be a major problem for SF, FF will drive an awfully hard bargain to go in with them.

Zebra3

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Completely writing off a party with 38 tds and 276 councillors. Lads these threads are wild. :cool:

So go on then, tell us about all the talent coming through.

Who'll replace MM?

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

That will be a be a major problem for SF, FF will drive an awfully hard bargain to go in with them.

It's not a problem at all for SF. Older voters are dying out. Younger voters have nothing to be attracted to FF. If someone asked the average punter what FF stand for, the answer would most likely be themselves.

The 26 county republican party. Did you ever hear anything like it? :rolleyes:

Fred Cryton

skimpydoo wrote: »

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40258550.html?fbclid=IwAR0xsK3xJuNWFsV12OJt6FxEe9dsMIpcCnTBEh9Je8K2AnjKtmUu487QWjU

Irish politics has polarized into the Shinners on one side (welfare dependents, students, vigilantes, criminals and anti-vaxxers) and FG on the other (middle class, higher rate taxpayers, multinational workers and retired parents of same)


Fundamentally FF need to decide where they stand on that spectrum. They are in very very big trouble if the middle class even get a sniff they might get into bed with SF. Don't envy their position right now in politics.

They are going nowhere. When push comes to shove the electorate will run back to them as always.

Fred Cryton

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

However, if the vaccine rollout continues to stall, and summer is still under major restrictions, then the coalition will probably fall by autumn.

I don't see that happening. Why would it fall? Would be Turkeys voting for Christmas. Better to leave SF waiting another 4 years and Covid will be distant memory by then. Housing will still be the main issue at the next election.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yep.

FF destroyed young people's chances over the last 10+ years and they are loathed by under 30s as a result.

Absolutely no talent coming through the ranks either.

FG will always attract those who couldn't give a toss about the less fortunate in society (though many like Thatcher will dispute its' existence).

Martin avoided being the first FF leader not to get the main gig, but that's only a matter of time before it happens. He'd be well out on his ear too if there was anyone capable of replacing him even though he sets such a low bar.

Maybe someone like Thatcher is exactly who we need.

Brussels Sprout

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Polls dont mean s*** sunshine, open your eyes.

and yet this entire thread is a result of a terrible opinion poll for FF. People love nothing better than to say how little opinion polls mean - usually when they don't like what the polls are saying.

shesty

Sorry, they are fairly loathed by over 30s too.I am late 30s and I graduated 2005....4 years later my career was gone, as was many of my friends.We scratched through a few miserable years, then basically all had to start again from scratch or emigrate.
They come across as completely out of touch and unable to make a decision, more interested in buttering up various interest groups.They won't ever be getting a vote from me.

RandomViewer

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Irish politics has polarized into the Shinners on one side (welfare dependents, students, vigilantes, criminals and anti-vaxxers) and FG on the other (middle class, higher rate taxpayers, multinational workers and retired parents of same)


Fundamentally FF need to decide where they stand on that spectrum. They are in very very big trouble if the middle class even get a sniff they might get into bed with SF. Don't envy their position right now in politics.

Drug dealers vote FG, everyone knows that, 150 previous convictions and no danger of jail, Gemma and the anti-lockdown brigade are all FG genepool, middle classes see their kids struggling to get homes or permanent job positions under FG , no one goes to their SF councillor or TD looking for a council house, thats FF/FG territory ,

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe someone like Thatcher is exactly who we need.

UK had 11 very lean years under Thatcher, this notion that she was some sort of great leader is complete BS

jimwallace197

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Irish politics has polarized into the Shinners on one side (welfare dependents, blue collar, tradesmen, students, vigilantes, criminals and anti-vaxxers) and FG on the other (middle class, higher rate taxpayers, multinational workers and retired parents of same)


Fundamentally FF need to decide where they stand on that spectrum. They are in very very big trouble if the middle class even get a sniff they might get into bed with SF. Don't envy their position right now in politics.

Bull****. Sf have already promised to reduce taxes on small to medium sized businesses and go after multinationals who pay less than 1% corporation tax here. Professional businesses here pay 20%. Now in truth, they have never been in government but i think its worth giving them the benefit of the doubt with regard to what they have said. Better than Varadkar who is an out and out liar talking about supporting people who get up at 7am in the morning but doing the opposite.

Im in favour of this, I want a government who supports Irish businesses and encourages them rather than lick the arses of american multinationals who in truth couldn't give two ****s about us and will abscond to another country when it becomes more financially viable.

We are the only English speaking country left in the eu and we are educated. We have a long history with the states also. Its important we dont forget this and it he has nothing to do with that parasitic party Fine Gael.

Zebra3

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Irish politics has polarized into the Shinners on one side (welfare dependents, students, vigilantes, criminals and anti-vaxxers) and FG on the other (middle class, higher rate taxpayers, multinational workers and retired parents of same)

Your nonsense will come as a huge shock to students from wealthy backgrounds.

I've spent most of my career working for MNCs. You're very of touch if you think you can just lump all employees of MNCs in together.

Criminals tend to flock to FF, they love a good amnesty sure. Anti-vaxxers in SF? Doubt any more so than FFFG.

Tippman24

Traditional FF voter here. I have to agree with the comments made about the future existence of FF being at risk. I don't know which politician referred to the vision thing, but FF certaintly need it at the moment. What does the party stand for needs to be addressed immediately. There is an opening for a party to stand up for people who work, pay their taxes and expect the State to honour their side of the bargain. Why does middle Ireland pay for private health insurance when X billion go to the HSE to run a ramshakle system. In the case of the DAVY stockbroker scandal, why is there no prosecution being undertaken. A few years ago I went down the street to hear music coming from a pub on a Friday night. i made enquiries of the reason for same to be told that it was for a retirement party, but the retiree had never worked a day in his life. I was told that the party was to celebrate going from the dole to the pension. A party that would campaign on these issues has a future, but otherwise it just becomes one more bland name in the field of many.

RobbingBandit

No neither are FG political dynasties will always vote for these parties it's my grandas party/these are better than the rest etc etc.

Turncoats the both of them protecting their own interests and those of their wealthy friends, the banks are about to gouge €bs from the public with negative interest rates and the guardians of the state elected to protect the public will sit and debate if it's right or wrong but no action will happen.

tim3000

I'm old enough to remember the troubles and SF's role therein. I'm young enough to blame FF for the IMF and the subsequent troubles caused there.

I would never vote Labour because I detested Joan Burton.

FG seem someway progressive though like all politicians this is such cynical opportunism.

Independents/greens are who I usually vote for as they are relatively untainted by the tribunals/scandals and lack of accountability that has plagued this country.

What's needed is party that can tow a line between socialist policies and ruthless accountability for crime and corruption. I don't know where on the left right spectrum that would be.