Is FF gone as a party?

Eric Cartman

thomas 123 wrote: »

While house prices continue to rise but it’s all because we don’t work hard enough and spend money on things we don’t need.

We have an already oppressive regime of taxation especially on housing and incomes , we're going to keep putting nails in the coffin until the entire country is reliant on a snails pace moving social housing program.

Loafing Oaf

I says wrote: »

Yes and fg also.

FG are doing fine. A decade in power and they're neck and neck with SF at the top of the polls. All they have to say going in to the next election is "We're the only dependably anti-SF party" and they should maintain that position.

Eric Cartman

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

FG are doing fine. A decade in power and they're neck and neck with SF at the top of the polls. All they have to say going in to the next election is "We're the only dependably anti-SF party" and they should maintain that position.

The bad taste for FF from the recession and SF being the next biggest option are absolutely helping FG to no end, they've managed to go soft as butter on their economic principals and gobble up a load of well wisher votes in the middle classes.

skimpydoo

Pussyhands wrote: »

What is the supposed difference between FG and FF?

Just their names.

L1011

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not what FF do, there just has to be a reasonable alternative to the shinner menace. A viable FF alternative that is popular enough to keep MLM out of government would do in FF.

And yet if there's an option to hold on to some bit of power and some ministerial pensions after the next election by going in to coalition with SF, they likely will. Martin won't be leader by then.

Eric Cartman

L1011 wrote: »

And yet if there's an option to hold on to some bit of power and some ministerial pensions after the next election by going in to coalition with SF, they likely will. Martin won't be leader by then.

Id love to disagree but I can't in good faith make the argument that especially a dwindling FF wouldn't be so arrogant as to go in as the minor partner in a coalition and claim it was for the countries best interest to have 'oversight' on SF or some other crap. Funnily though such an arrangement would be the thing that kills FF, the ordinary members would leave in droves.

RandomViewer

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

FG are doing fine. A decade in power and they're neck and neck with SF at the top of the polls. All they have to say going in to the next election is "We're the only dependably anti-SF party" and they should maintain that position.

There's whole constituencies where they will have no TDs the next time around, no point having 15 -30Tds in Dublin and surrounding commuter belt and nowhere else,

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

FG are doing fine. A decade in power and they're neck and neck with SF at the top of the polls. All they have to say going in to the next election is "We're the only dependably anti-SF party" and they should maintain that position.

I do think that FG would have done a lot better last GE without the scandal of the RIC commemoration hanging over their heads. I think people were rightfully still pissed at that and that contributed in large part to the SF/Independent vote

When you think of how different things could have been if the election hadn't been called in January, if they had waited as I think it didn't have to be called until April (but FF were threatening to withdraw support) we would already have been well into Covid at the time and I think people would have wanted to stick with FG.

I know SF has continued to do well in the polls but I think that they won't increase their TD tally that much next election

osarusan

They're a massive organisation at grass roots level and while they may suffer at national election time, they're not going anywhere.

They have a bit of an identity crisis at the moment and can't find their own space away from FG and SF.

But I genuinely believe that if and when SF do get into power (most likely in a fragile coalition of left-wing parties) that their incoherent economic policies will make FG and FF look like geniuses by comparison, and SF will lose a lot of votes in the election to follow.

Sunny Disposition

It’s very unlikely FF will ever again hit the heights they once took for granted. Corruption and arrogance set in and it seems to be too late for them now.
Why would a young person interested in their country join FF now? There is nothing they stand for really.
A toxic party anyway, huge levels of corruption, Haughey, Bertie, Brian Lenihan Snr, Ray Burke, Lawlor, massive corruption and blatant lies told about it.
It only lasted so long because large numbers of it’s voters looked at it like supporting a soccer team, just voted for them regardless of how good or bad they were. Seems strange now.

Zebra3

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

FF backbenchers won’t be able to resit a leadership heave

But no point in starting the heave without having someone to take MM's place.

FF are utterly bereft of talent. For backbenchers hoping to get re-elected, it's hard to see who could emerge to take over. How many FF minsters could the average voter name bar Donnelly?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We have an already oppressive regime of taxation especially on housing and incomes , we're going to keep putting nails in the coffin until the entire country is reliant on a snails pace moving social housing program.

I'm kind of curious about the increases the minimum wage which invariably leads to all earners on the lower side of things making a little more if that is to ease some of the pressure from social housing because there is never a corresponding increase in the threshold for social housing, the current threshold was set in 2011. A single person working 40 hours a week at 10.20 for 50 weeks in the year will make just under 20k now and the threshold for social housing as a single person is 25k, so you don't need to be making that much above minimum wage to not qualify. Its 27.5k for a couple with two children https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2021/03/18/social-housing-income-limits-are-ridiculous-mayo-council-meeting-told/

Its a really clever way to "solve" the social housing crisis

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

FF are utterly bereft of talent. For backbenchers hoping to get re-elected, it's hard to see who could emerge to take over. How many FF minsters could the average voter name bar Donnelly?

Hes got an amazing pedigree education wise (MIT and Harvard) but has been an absolute disaster as a minister. Hes not a good politican and I doubt he has the savvy to be leader.

The only person that I could see taking over is O'Cuiv but hes been really sidelined by Martin because hes a potential leader. Also hes the one that said they should consider coalition with SF, so if they did go with him, it would be a clear signal thats how they want their party to go.

An Claidheamh

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

All they have to say going in to the next election is "We're the only dependably anti-SF party" and they should maintain that position.

Precisely why they are unfit for government

They are only appealing to their own cult with that strategy, how are they going to win an election though? Last time I checked we live in a democracy, despite the Blueshirts’ best efforts

What is their plan when working people question whether FG’s hatred of Irish republicanism is enough for them to suffer inadequate housing, services and inequality just because FG have an inferiority complex with upsetting the Brits?

Gregor Samsa

Zebra3 wrote: »

But no point in starting the heave without having someone to take MM's place.

FF are utterly bereft of talent. For backbenchers hoping to get re-elected, it's hard to see who could emerge to take over. How many FF minsters could the average voter name bar Donnelly?

Yet just yesterday you have Willie O'Dea talking down his own party in a national newspaper:

FF in danger of being reduced to the status of a mudguard party - Willie O'Dea (Independent paywalled article)

And Éamon Ó Cuív retweeting it:

https://twitter.com/eamonocuiv?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Egos trump pragmatism.

For Forks Sake

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Yet just yesterday you have Willie O'Dea talking down his own party in a national newspaper:

FF in danger of being reduced to the status of a mudguard party - Willie O'Dea (Independent paywalled article)

And Éamon Ó Cuív retweeting it:

https://twitter.com/eamonocuiv?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Egos trump pragmatism.

Easy to fling sh1te when you're likely not standing the next time out.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hes got an amazing pedigree education wise (MIT and Harvard) but has been an absolute disaster as a minister. Hes not a good politican and I doubt he has the savvy to be leader.

The only person that I could see taking over is O'Cuiv but hes been really sidelined by Martin because hes a potential leader. Also hes the one that said they should consider coalition with SF, so if they did go with him, it would be a clear signal thats how they want their party to go.

O'Cuiv is 70 years old, retiring soon,
Nobody rates O Callaghan except RTE
When they continue to let personality vacuums like Chambers on telly to embarrass themselves there isn't much hope

Loafing Oaf

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Precisely why they are unfit for government

They are only appealing to their own cult with that strategy, how are they going to win an election though?

What exactly do you mean by 'win an election'? FG will not be looking to secure an overall majority at the next election, they will be seeking to establish themselves as one of the 'big 2' along with SF. And purely by positioning themselves as the anti-SF, IMO they should be able to achieve that and marginalise FF.

Rjd2

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Precisely why they are unfit for government

They are only appealing to their own cult with that strategy, how are they going to win an election though? Last time I checked we live in a democracy, despite the Blueshirts’ best efforts

What is their plan when working people question whether FG’s hatred of Irish republicanism is enough for them to suffer inadequate housing, services and inequality just because FG have an inferiority complex with upsetting the Brits?

I think "don't vote for us we are not SF" isn't the most of exciting slogans, but whether people like it or not their is an awful lot of anti SF voters out their.

I 'd prefer them to run on a more substantial policy vehicle but the above especially with FF in tatters could be enough to get it done next time round.

happyoutscan

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Get up the yard, look at the state of their main politicians. Simon Harris who couldnt even finish a journalism degree but feels he can pontificate about covid 19 as a health minister without knowing 19 stood for the year it was found rather than the amount of corona viruses. On top of this, an absolute dope trying to appeal to the younger people with his tik tok videos.

Coveney, a miserable s**** if there ever was one. Clueless in negotiations with Britain in relation to Brexit and even more clueless in relation to which countries we should quarantine now, over a year after the pandemic started.

Heather Humphreys, I think anyone who has read the news lately knows everything there is to know about this hypocrite. I believe a second whistle blower has stepped forward about her now. To top it off, the brass neck on her defending Varadkar as she is about to take the justice ministry portfolio when he clearly committed a criminal act.

Helen McEntee, inherited a position from her Dad who was prominent in the Meath region. Nepotism at its finest, has never worked a day in the real world. Far out of her depth as the justice minister. More interested in going after men more than anything. A true feminist in that equality is not the aim of what she is trying to achieve but the suppression of male rights.

Josepha Madigan, we all know her involvement in the Maria Bailey scandal and how she encouraged her to go ahead with that claim, especially since it was Madigans family law firm Bailey went to. On top of this, wanting to remove the Kerryman newspaper name and replacing it with Kerry People seems to be high on her list of woke priorities in the time of an international crisis. Extremely hypocritical in that she campaigns vigorously against methadone clinics and travellers settling anywhere near her south Dublin constituency but is happy for them to be placed elsewhere. Not surprised her Dad's family is from Mayo tbh.

And Finally, Varadkar, I think we all know about him at this stage.

The sooner Fine Gael are removed permanently from our countries history the better.

You must be a Queally.

_Kaiser_

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by 'win an election'? FG will not be looking to secure an overall majority at the next election, they will be seeking to establish themselves as one of the 'big 2' along with SF. And purely by positioning themselves as the anti-SF, IMO they should be able to achieve that and marginalise FF.

Same strategy as always then - "Hey, at least we're not FF SF" :rolleyes:

As I said earlier, never elected on their merits, only as a protest/least-worst option - but if/when history repeats they'll do more for FF polling numbers than that party will do themselves.

pauliebdub

Yes I think they are finished in the long term. I just don't see a space for them. Young people will continue to shun them and as they get older will not vote for FF.

They may shuffle on for another 10 or 15 years with some prominent TD's with a large personal vote that continues to vote for them. Their left wing vote will go to SF and their right wing vote will go to FG who will not join in coalition with SF.

Zebra3

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Yet just yesterday you have Willie O'Dea talking down his own party in a national newspaper:

FF in danger of being reduced to the status of a mudguard party - Willie O'Dea (Independent paywalled article)

And Éamon Ó Cuív retweeting it:

https://twitter.com/eamonocuiv?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Egos trump pragmatism.

No harm in a bit of honesty from one of their own, but the state of O'Dea slagging people off. Like MM, another shyster who destroyed the country. And just like MM, never suffered any hardship out of it unlike a sizeable number of people.

timeToLive

can't see any sane person voting for FF ever again

Sunny Disposition

They have had a huge organisation around the country, but it’s been let die really, the base wasn’t tended to when the party seemed unassailable.
FF will limp on for a number of years yet, but ultimately will have to amalgamate with FG. There’s no need for both, and hasn’t been for probably 40 years.

StupidLikeAFox

Too early to say they are gone as a party, but they definitely need an overhaul. FG brought young blood through in the last few years, freshened up the party and it paid dividends.

If they can unearth a charismatic leader with a few strong members of a front bench, they can portray a new start. There is a bit of a vacuum at the moment, a lot of floating voters out there that could be nabbed by a FF renewal. God knows where it'll come from though

Feisar

mikemac2 wrote: »

If education mattered then Michael McDowell as one of the highest paid barristers in the state should have been the most amazing Minister for Justice

Albert Reynolds was a millionaire entering politics and never went to college

You don’t need a 4 year degree to be a leader. The details can be done by the permanent civil service staff.

Yer dead right. Education does not equal intelligence. I’m educated, am I intelligent? Meh I get by, no one is looking for me in Mensa. I was at my best when I was hungriest both actually and metaphorically speaking. Intelligence will always play second fiddle to mindset, education is a distant third.

smurgen

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Too early to say they are gone as a party, but they definitely need an overhaul. FG brought young blood through in the last few years, freshened up the party and it paid dividends.

If they can unearth a charismatic leader with a few strong members of a front bench, they can portray a new start. There is a bit of a vacuum at the moment, a lot of floating voters out there that could be nabbed by a FF renewal. God knows where it'll come from though

FG are goosed. They've dropped like a stone. Young blood like who? Harris and Eoghan Murphy that collapsed the government?

skimpydoo

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

FG brought young blood through in the last few years, freshened up the party and it paid dividends.

Care to name the young blood you speak off? I can't think who they could be.

Topgear on Dave

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

They have had a huge organisation around the country, but it’s been let die really, the base wasn’t tended to when the party seemed unassailable.

Are you sure? Right now they have far more county councillors than anyone else.