Is FF gone as a party?

Strumms

Bobtheman wrote: »

Can you name one different policy FF have over FG or are you still buying the party of the people bull****. They bought everyone off under bertie all on your money. A very corrupt bunch who are laughing at the poor peasants who buy their republican bull****.

I’m not buying any bullshît. I believe FF are the far lesser malevolent of two entities..

FG for instance wanted to introduce random drug testing of students in schools... FF and others opposed this..

FF invest in healthcare, FG don’t, invest more giveaways to businesses...instead.

Bubbaclaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Getting her on the ballot would put FG in an awkward place, redacted old squeeze up for prez

Would she still be able to teach at the Sinn Fein Summer School then though? :pac:



https://images.app.goo.gl/LcEHPKZn4Lrc7j537

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

can’t see FG going anywhere.

They'll go further right, IMHO.
It's visible in their councillors and some TDs. They've bought into the Trump style of divisive politics and it is reaping rewards, for them.

RandomViewer

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Would she still be able to teach at the Sinn Fein Summer School then though? :pac:



https://images.app.goo.gl/LcEHPKZn4Lrc7j537

Is she like an SF version if Mairia?

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They'll go further right, IMHO.
It's visible in their councillors and some TDs. They've bought into the Trump style of divisive politics and it is reaping rewards, for them.

They've been spending time, contacts and money trying to discredit independant candidates anyway, GSoc involved in one quite elaborate sting that went wrong apparently

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

I’m not buying any bullshît. I believe FF are the far lesser malevolent of two entities..

FG for instance wanted to introduce random drug testing of students in schools... FF and others opposed this..

FF invest in healthcare, FG don’t, invest more giveaways to businesses...instead.

We shouldn’t be investing anymore in healthcare until we get some serious returns for the money whether FF do it or not.

ThunbergsAreGo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They'll go further right, IMHO.
It's visible in their councillors and some TDs. They've bought into the Trump style of divisive politics and it is reaping rewards, for them.

You think?

Listening to Varadkar, Harris and McEntee they are moving further into the woke, twitter populist cause of the week.

Screamer articulated my thoughts, noone to vote for. No noticeable different between FG/FF/SF

Mike Murdock

Strumms wrote: »

I’m not buying any bullshît. I believe FF are the far lesser malevolent of two entities..

FG for instance wanted to introduce random drug testing of students in schools... FF and others opposed this..

FF invest in healthcare, FG don’t, invest more giveaways to businesses...instead.

FF are The Builders Party. The Tent in Ballybrit for instance which they moved somewhere else when it started to generate negative publicity.

Mike Murdock

Deleted User wrote: »

We shouldn’t be investing anymore in healthcare until we get some serious returns for the money whether FF do it or not.

The administrative nightmare that is the HSE is as a result of FF "investment" in the Health Service here.

Bobtheman

jmcc wrote: »

The SocDems are the "teacher on tour" party. SF is very different from this. It is highly organised and effective.

They do seem to have thought about how to solve the problems of housing. That hard part would be implementing that.

It may need to be reexamined. The decision by FF in the 1970s to abolish rates to win votes is still having an effect decades later.


The Greens are quite different from the other two in that they have an almost religious adherence to Green matters and an understanding that they have to be in government to get anything done about these matters. The influx of Labour types (the /Greta Thunberg/Mary Robinson/Climate Justice fans) has caused problems for the Greens.

The SocDems are quite confusing as a party in that they don't seem to want to be in a government that they don't run. It even has two leaders.

Labour still has a major problem with Bacik and O'Riordan virtue signalling to the kind of people who read the Irish Times, tell people they vote Labour but really vote FF/FG. Labour lost its Working Class vote to SF and PBP/Socialists/etc because the Labourites got too used to being the half party in a 2.5 party model. Once the dominant political model shifted to the current 3 party model (where no two of the big three parties have enough seats to form a government), the electorate had no further use for them. Labour is so worried now that it is talking about the SocDems merging with Labour.

The last GE was a highly abnormal one in that a lot of SF's votes went all over the place and even got Greens elected. In the next one, FF will be fighting for its political life and SF will be running more candidates. That could see the SocDems, the Greens and even FF and FG lose seats.


Regards...jmcc

I'd agree with you in the main bar Labour. Labour gave out signals that it was not pro austerity then did the opposite while in power. It fell back on the claim that its real policies were in the manifesto. Sure who reads them?
It then made a poor decision to make howlin leader. I think Alan Kelly is good and the more maverick he can be the better.
A lot of teachers will never vote Labour after what Quinn did to education with bull**** reforms. The fact that the old timers were given one more spin on the cabinet merry go round did damage too.
I don't think the next election is a done deal by any stretch of the imagination. FF still have time to turn it around.

Bobtheman

jmcc wrote: »

The SocDems are the "teacher on tour" party. SF is very different from this. It is highly organised and effective.

They do seem to have thought about how to solve the problems of housing. That hard part would be implementing that.

It may need to be reexamined. The decision by FF in the 1970s to abolish rates to win votes is still having an effect decades later.


The Greens are quite different from the other two in that they have an almost religious adherence to Green matters and an understanding that they have to be in government to get anything done about these matters. The influx of Labour types (the /Greta Thunberg/Mary Robinson/Climate Justice fans) has caused problems for the Greens.

The SocDems are quite confusing as a party in that they don't seem to want to be in a government that they don't run. It even has two leaders.

Labour still has a major problem with Bacik and O'Riordan virtue signalling to the kind of people who read the Irish Times, tell people they vote Labour but really vote FF/FG. Labour lost its Working Class vote to SF and PBP/Socialists/etc because the Labourites got too used to being the half party in a 2.5 party model. Once the dominant political model shifted to the current 3 party model (where no two of the big three parties have enough seats to form a government), the electorate had no further use for them. Labour is so worried now that it is talking about the SocDems merging with Labour.

The last GE was a highly abnormal one in that a lot of SF's votes went all over the place and even got Greens elected. In the next one, FF will be fighting for its political life and SF will be running more candidates. That could see the SocDems, the Greens and even FF and FG lose seats.


Regards...jmcc

Deleted User wrote: »

We shouldn’t be investing anymore in healthcare until we get some serious returns for the money whether FF do it or not.

That's a bit simplistic. To be fair to the HSE new treatments and drugs coming online all the time so you can't just say no more money. Sorry just go off and die quietly in the corner.
There is a structural inefficiency in the system that unfortunately will require more cash. The new health centers to centralise services are part of that.
That being said there is huge waste that could be resolved with a mandatory redundancy program.
Run it along private sector lines but without a profit motive.
However no political party out there will do the above.

Jizique

Deleted User wrote: »

They'll go further right, IMHO.
It's visible in their councillors and some TDs. They've bought into the Trump style of divisive politics and it is reaping rewards, for them.

It’s SF who will go further right, or accurately populist - it will be wrapped in the flag, stick up for Ireland v Brussels and Frankfurt, support the fishermen, it will be Trump-like in use of social media, think Boris and the Labour North, the Red Wall;

RandomViewer

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

You think?

Listening to Varadkar, Harris and McEntee they are moving further into the woke, twitter populist cause of the week.

Screamer articulated my thoughts, noone to vote for. No noticeable different between FG/FF/SF

Haven't seen them but wee girl says Harris' Tictok's are very funny

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We shouldn’t be investing anymore in healthcare until we get some serious returns for the money whether FF do it or not.

Most of the old regional health boards were reasonably efficient , the few that weren't spread their practices to the rest when the HSE was formed

mariaalice

Society has modernised and moved on from the fat chief style of politics that FF represents and they haven't reinvented themselves for modern society.

StupidLikeAFox

Strumms wrote: »

I’d vote FF before FG. All FG give a **** about is the business person, and would **** each and all of our rights, aspirations and US too under a truck to see the business community looked after... lower taxes for businesses and higher taxes for us, they pd stamp all over employment law...

It’s a shame labour are so piss weak...

To be fair fg have brought in a good few "left wing" initiatives - increases to social welfare, restoring the Christmas bonus, free gp and dental care for kids, extending paternity leave etc

Jizique

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

To be fair fg have brought in a good few "left wing" initiatives - increases to social welfare, restoring the Christmas bonus, free gp and dental care for kids, extending paternity leave etc

And HAP for pretty much everyone who applies for it, although this is more accurately a guarantee for the landlords as it ensures rents are higher than they otherwise would be

markodaly

Zebra3 wrote: »

An opinion poll. Wow.

Yeap, that shows SF voters to be more anti-vax than any other voters, just your contention that fg voters are more anti vax has no truth to it.

markodaly

FF are not in great shape but they will still exist as a party. I can see them struggle in the next election, but government is hard and if SF go in next time, then we will see the same thing happen to them. The populist vote that SF appears to have gathered over the past year or so, will leave them in droves, remember SF core vote is really about 10%, not 30%.

Calhoun

If they want to hold on to something they need to oust Martin, they also need to work with all TD's and councilors and tell them to be on their best behavior.

While they have Martin and the likes of Willie still around they will always be compared to their pre-boom successes and they have had a few incident since being in government that reminded voters that leopards dont change their spots.

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

You think?

Listening to Varadkar, Harris and McEntee they are moving further into the woke, twitter populist cause of the week.

Screamer articulated my thoughts, noone to vote for. No noticeable different between FG/FF/SF

They're doing that to counter SF but can't see that working.
Their councillors are paintinga very different picture, as are the grass roots

Idbatterim

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

To be fair fg have brought in a good few "left wing" initiatives - increases to social welfare, restoring the Christmas bonus, free gp and dental care for kids, extending paternity leave etc

True, one of the ordinary reasons I detest fg, turning it into an even more outrageous welfare state... paid for by the early risers...

GarIT

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

To be fair fg have brought in a good few "left wing" initiatives - increases to social welfare, restoring the Christmas bonus, free gp and dental care for kids, extending paternity leave etc

As well as:

Same sex marriage

Abortion

Blasphemy referendum

Starting to end direct provision and giving every asylum seeker a council house after 4 months whether their claim is valid or not and giving leave to stay if they can draw out their appeals for 2 years.

Reducing the time needed for children to gain citizenship

Starting to end prison sentences for under 24s and wiping criminal records clean at 24 instead of 18

Increasing carbon taxes

Declaring travellers a protected ethnic minority

Introducing gender quotas in politics to such an extent that SF has had to declare 4 constituencies "women only" as running men would put them over the quota resulting in them dropping a popular male candidate because he isn't the correct gender even though he only lost by a few votes last time around.

dulpit

Idbatterim wrote: »

True, one of the ordinary reasons I detest fg, turning it into an even more outrageous welfare state... paid for by the early risers...

Sure if you're poor it's your own fault, right?

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote:

True, one of the ordinary reasons I detest fg, turning it into an even more outrageous welfare state... paid for by the early risers...

Have you actually ever been unemployed? Again, we are not a welfare state, we are in fact a fairly standard free market economy, with a rudimentary welfare system

theballz

markodaly wrote: »

Yeap, that shows SF voters to be more anti-vax than any other voters, just your contention that fg voters are more anti vax has no truth to it.

They are generally uneducated too.

theballz

Idbatterim wrote: »

True, one of the ordinary reasons I detest fg, turning it into an even more outrageous welfare state... paid for by the early risers...

loooooooool you can’t be serious? Ireland is not a welfare state.

ThunbergsAreGo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're doing that to counter SF but can't see that working.
Their councillors are paintinga very different picture, as are the grass roots

One of the reasons I have noone to vote for. If I wanted to vote SF id vote SF ideally don't want FG turning into them.

Struggle to differentiate between the main three, noone of which appeal.

Mike Murdock

theballz wrote: »

loooooooool you can’t be serious? Ireland is not a welfare state.

I guess people believe that when you can sit on your ass for life, not work or pay taxes (and no, VAT doesn't count) and still get free medical care, pretty much free housing, children's allowance, free education, and sundry other freebies from the State, that it IS, to some degree, a welfare state.

VinLieger

markodaly wrote: »

Yeap, that shows SF voters to be more anti-vax than any other voters, just your contention that fg voters are more anti vax has no truth to it.

Also do FF or FG have any outspoken anti vax tds? Cus SF definitely do, they really had to dig to the bottom of the barrel to get enough candidates for the last election and that's why we now have TDs like Violet Ann-Wynne who literally defaulted into being SFs only candidate in Clare where i would wager people voting for SF as a party had no clue about who the candidate was or her beliefs.

Wynne ran for the position of councillor in Clare County Council during the May 2019 local elections. She placed 8th out 9 candidates in her local election area of Kilrush, securing 4% of the first preference vote. In 2020, she was chosen by Sinn Féin local branches in Clare to stand for Sinn Féin in the 2020 general election. She had been the local party members' third choice for a candidate, gaining the nomination after their first choice, Councillor Mike McKee, fell ill and died, and their second choice, Noeleen Moran, withdrew from the nomination process after she felt the local branch had not been prompt enough in convening.