Why do people hate on SUV drivers?

Thelonious Monk

Louis Friend wrote: »

It’s the space...the ability to transport your kids and your parents at the same time. The ability to facilitate playdates. The feeling of safety that you get from a big car and the higher driving position. The ability to comfortably go away in Ireland and bring what you want.

Ok well I don't want to live in a world where you need one of these things, except I do so jokes on me!

alias no.9

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't have a problem with them really existing but why do people think they need such big vehicles if they live in Clontarf and Sandymount etc? They just take up far too much space in already crowded areas and for me they should be taxed into oblivion. Waste of energy.

They're not big for the most part, they're hatchbacks but a little bit taller.
The D-Segment saloon (Mondeo et al) has been canabilised by crossovers based on C-Segment (Focus sized) hatchbacks and C-segment hatchbacks are under pressure from crossovers based on superminis. They have a smaller footprint but sit tall, I don't really get it myself, they're not big and tough, they're small and tall and the sight if damp grass would render them stranded.
FFS the Dacia Duster shares its platform with a Nissan Micra.

Strumms

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't have a problem with them really existing but why do people think they need such big vehicles if they live in Clontarf and Sandymount etc? They just take up far too much space in already crowded areas and for me they should be taxed into oblivion. Waste of energy.

You don’t have a problem with them, yet “ they should be taxed into ‘oblivion’ “ ?

Some people with big SUV’s have them because they need them.

I know a person who if you saw them sat in a car you’d think ‘ ok seems like an everyday joe soap ‘.. they are but have a disability and use a walking frame and need a bigger and higher boot to transport it and remove it in comfort and safety...

Five of the top ten greenest cars on the planet right now ? SUVs ! Many using hybrid technology.

AndrewJRenko

Strumms wrote: »

You don’t have a problem with them, yet “ they should be taxed into ‘oblivion’ “ ?

Some people with big SUV’s have them because they need them.

I know a person who if you saw them sat in a car you’d think ‘ ok seems like an everyday joe soap ‘.. they are but have a disability and use a walking frame and need a bigger and higher boot to transport it and remove it in comfort and safety...

Five of the top ten greenest cars on the planet right now ? SUVs ! Many using hybrid technology.

"greenest cars on the planet" - that's just hilarious.

Ardillaun

Must say I’m impressed by anybody who can park an SUV in a car park in Ireland. Fresh from a sparsely populated corner of Canada, I struggle with my modest rentals. Last time over, I tweaked the tire of the car next to me. An enraged female leapt out and I thought she was going to beat the hell out of me.

forestgirl

All the people on here saying they are hatch back on stilts it would depend which suv's you are talking about ,take the skoda kodiaq,seat tarraco ,vw allspace or nissan x trail or any of those 7 seater are brilliant for carrying long awkward things and can still carry passengers example the driver could have 2 passengers behind him one the middle row and one in the third row and have all other seats dropped flat including the front seat passenger all the different configurations are extremely handy

sebdavis

forestgirl wrote: »

All the people on here saying they are hatch back on stilts it would depend which suv's you are talking about ,take the skoda kodiaq,seat tarraco ,vw allspace or nissan x trail or any of those 7 seater are brilliant for carrying long awkward things and can still carry passengers example the driver could have 2 passengers behind him one the middle row and one in the third row and have all other seats dropped flat including the front seat passenger all the different configurations are extremely handy

Exactly like an estate :-) Just a little higher

magicbastarder

forestgirl wrote: »

example the driver could have 2 passengers behind him one the middle row and one in the third row and have all other seats dropped flat including the front seat passenger

how long would i need to be standing at the side of the road to see an SUV drive past in this configuration?
sure, you can think of use cases where they're handy like that. but for the majority of SUVs, they're *exceptionally* rarely used.

if you have the occasional need to transport something big and bulky, save on buying an SUV and just hire a go-van for next to nothing the once or twice a year you might need to fill your car.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

magicbastarder wrote: »

how long would i need to be standing at the side of the road to see an SUV drive past in this configuration?
sure, you can think of use cases where they're handy like that. but for the majority of SUVs, they're *exceptionally* rarely used.

if you have the occasional need to transport something big and bulky, save on buying an SUV and just hire a go-van for next to nothing the once or twice a year you might need to fill your car.

How long would you be standing in the street to see a 4-5 seater car with 4-5 people inside ?

By that why don't we all just drive smart for twos ? Or why doesn't everybody just use a motorbike if it's just one person.

Just because you can't see it everyday doesn't warrent getting rid of them.

I used to drive a bus for Dublin bus and often had been carrying a handful of people just. Should we get rid of buses too and replace them with 16 seater minibuses ?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

"greenest cars on the planet" - that's just hilarious.

I have a RR Sport PHEV, 72g/kg CO2, tax €150, most of my journeys are done solely on the electric battery, that’s pretty “green” I’d say.

And, it appears Strumms has a point:

https://www.nextgreencar.com/features/9058/top-10-green-cars-2021/

magicbastarder

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

How long would you be standing in the street to see a 4-5 seater car with 4-5 people inside ?

i live very near a school, so probably see them more often than most. but yes, it's rare. occupancy on motorways and for work commuting is very down near 1 IIRC.

i don't think your bus analogy stands, unless we're running buses on routes where a considerable majority of trips are made with a nearly empty bus.

my point was i don't see the point in buying a car with (for most people!) a very rare outlier case in mind. go vans are available from as low as €10 per hour.

magicbastarder

Dav010 wrote: »

I have a RR Sport PHEV, 72g/kg CO2, tax €150, most of my journeys are done solely on the electric battery, that’s pretty “green” I’d say./

holy mother of god, that's the heaviest vehicle yet. 3.2 tons!
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/land-rover/range-rover-sport/20-p400e-hse-dynamic-5dr-auto/spec

The J Stands for Jay

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

How long would you be standing in the street to see a 4-5 seater car with 4-5 people inside ?

By that why don't we all just drive smart for twos ? Or why doesn't everybody just use a motorbike if it's just one person.

Just because you can't see it everyday doesn't warrent getting rid of them.

I used to drive a bus for Dublin bus and often had been carrying a handful of people just. Should we get rid of buses too and replace them with 16 seater minibuses ?

https://img.resized.co/lovindublin_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-things-you-ll-remember-if-you-grew-up-in-dublin-during-the-1990s.jpg

The J Stands for Jay

Dav010 wrote: »

I have a RR Sport PHEV, 72g/kg CO2, tax €150, most of my journeys are done solely on the electric battery, that’s pretty “green” I’d say.

And, it appears Strumms has a point:

https://www.nextgreencar.com/features/9058/top-10-green-cars-2021/

Imagine how much greener it could have been...

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

Imagine how much greener it could have been...

McGaggs, why would anyone imagine that?

magicbastarder

does the 72g/km figure *only* take into account what actually comes out the tailpipe?
i suspect it does as the mix of electricity generation sources in each market can vary, so they only take into account direct tailpipe emissions. happy to be corrected if not.

but in short - if you're driving a car weighing that much, and a reasonable proportion of the electricity generated to power it comes from fossil fuels, ignoring that as a CO2 source is cheating.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

does the 72g/km figure *only* take into account what actually comes out the tailpipe?
i suspect it does as the mix of electricity generation sources in each market can vary, so they only take into account direct tailpipe emissions. happy to be corrected if not.

but in short - if you're driving a car weighing that much, and a reasonable proportion of the electricity generated to power it comes from fossil fuels, ignoring that as a CO2 source is cheating.

Maybe I have this wrong, are you saying the fossil fuel used to generate electricity before it arrives in the EV charger the car is plugged into, should be considered for CO2 emissions from a car?

magicbastarder

yeah - i was asking was the CO2 generated by the electricity generation, used in plug in mode, taken into account in the 72g/km figure.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah - i was asking was the CO2 generated by the electricity generation, used in plug in mode, taken into account in the 72g/km figure.

Are you serious? Do you think they should include the emissions in production and transportation of the car, the mining of the metal etc?

magicbastarder

i mean - if you plug the car in to charge the battery, and drive, say, 20km; the car has produced no direct emissions. but the electricity you used to charge it has. i am asking if that CO2 is included in the 72g/km figure, and i suspect it's not.

magicbastarder

for example, if you plug your car in now, less than 20% of the electricity being generated in ireland at the moment is from stated renewable sources. so charging your car has a CO2 cost.

http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#roi/generation

i57dwun4yb1pt8

as a vegan part time cyclist with an iphone , i like SUV's
the missus has one and its fecking lovely to drive as its an auto and has loads of gimpers , like parking cams etc.

magicbastarder

i don't think many would describe themselves as a 'full time cyclist' to be fair, it'd be very tiring.

beauf

forestgirl wrote: »

All the people on here saying they are hatch back on stilts it would depend which suv's you are talking about ,take the skoda kodiaq,seat tarraco ,vw allspace or nissan x trail or any of those 7 seater are brilliant for carrying long awkward things and can still carry passengers example the driver could have 2 passengers behind him one the middle row and one in the third row and have all other seats dropped flat including the front seat passenger all the different configurations are extremely handy

I find most of them are heavily compromised on interior space. Especially in the rear. They curve inwares from the sides and the rear and have heavy hipped designed, meaning they are a lot more cramped inside than a reasonably MPV which are boxy for a reason.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

for example, if you plug your car in now, less than 20% of the electricity being generated in ireland at the moment is from stated renewable sources. so charging your car has a CO2 cost.

http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#roi/generation

The other point is that even in they are small SUV that are taller and heavier and use more materials to make them, will be harder on tyres etc. The larger ones obviously are much worse in this regard.

Less air pollution in urban areas with increased EV and hybrid use. It's the upside of all new cars.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

for example, if you plug your car in now, less than 20% of the electricity being generated in ireland at the moment is from stated renewable sources. so charging your car has a CO2 cost.

http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#roi/generation

Carbon dioxide emissions are measured by weight, in grammes (g) and calculated by how much CO2 is emitted from the exhaust pipe per the distance driven, measured in kilometres (km), it is not a measurement of how much CO2 was emitted in the production of the car and the electricity to drive it, which presumably would vary from country to country, or even between electricity producing stations in the same country. These measurements of course would have no bearing whatsoever on the efficiency of the engine.

magicbastarder

Dav010 wrote: »

Carbon dioxide emissions are measured by weight, in grammes (g) and calculated by how much CO2 is emitted from the exhaust pipe per the distance driven, measured in kilometres (km), it is not a measurement of how much CO2 was emitted in the production of the car and the electricity to drive it, which presumably would vary from country to country, or even between electricity producing stations in the same country. These measurements of course would have no bearing whatsoever on the efficiency of the engine.

So the claimed 72g/km is a fantasy. I know manufacturers claims usually are, but this adds a very tangible new layer to that

Wibbs

Dav010 wrote: »

Are you serious? Do you think they should include the emissions in production and transportation of the car, the mining of the metal etc?

EV's are clearly better at the user end and remove local emissions, but if those factors are taken into account cars of any type have pretty serious impacts on the environment and given how long they don't last before they end up on a scrapheap this is a rolling issue. If anything it has gotten worse as cars have more and more features and are heavier, made of more "stuff". Producing a three tonne car costs a lot more to the environment than a one tonne car.

And recycling won't help us much, though it makes us feel better. EV batteries can be used for other purposes after the car is scrapped and that's good. Hopefully actual recycling of batteries improves too. The metals of the car can be recycled, but the plastics can't to nearly the degree we think. Of those that can be recycled it's just the once and in a downgraded form with brand new plastics added to the mix. That's the joke; a car made in the 1930's would be significantly more recyclable than any car today.

firemansam4

Just bought my first ever SUV.

Now the reason I bought it was that I needed a 7 seater car due to the size of my family. I was perfectly willing to go for any other relaible 7 seater car, but the SUV I went for was in better condition and seemed a far better deal than anything else I seen for around the same price, it also still had 2 years manufacturer's guarantee on it (5 years old). So no it didn't cost me more to buy.

It also made sense in the fact I live in the country, and seems far more able to take the bumpy crap pot hole ridden roads I have to drive every day.
As for comfort, its probably the most comfortable car to drive that ive ever owned.

I guess the biggest drawback would be the diesel costs which is probably a bit higher than some other 7 seater cars.

Im not sure why people would hate me for driving this car, but then again people in Ireland very easily make up there minds about people for the most stupid reasons some times.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

So the claimed 72g/km is a fantasy. I know manufacturers claims usually are, but this adds a very tangible new layer to that

I think there is a certain amount of fantasy in the figures car manufacturers give us as their measurements are usually at conditions that rarely occur in normal use. But your contention that a measurement for engine efficiency/pollution should take into account variables which are not connected to the engines performance, is daft, it would give cars powered by electricity generated by cleaner nuclear power stations a lower value that those powered by our coal/peat powered electric stations, even though the car engine is the same in both.

deandean

forestgirl wrote: »

..take the skoda kodiaq,seat tarraco ,vw allspace or nissan x trail or any of those 7 seater are brilliant for carrying long awkward things and can still carry passengers example the driver could have 2 passengers behind him one the middle row and one in the third row and have all other seats dropped flat including the front seat passenger all the different configurations are extremely handy

NOOO this is very dangerous and can lead to a driver fatality.
Many years ago now, I set up my car like this. Great idea I thought, the two surfboards fit along the left side and my girlfriend sat behind the driver's seat. And off we went on the 5h drive to Kerry.
GF was disgusted at being relegated to the back seat by a surfboard and I got it in both ears for the most of the trip, with threats of what she'd do if I pulled this lark again.
After long consideration of the available options, I bought a roofrack.

YellowLead

Because they are driven by total Karen’s who can’t drive....

YellowLead

YellowLead wrote: »

Because they are driven by total Karen’s who can’t drive....

Karen’s can drive, they just think everybody else can’t.

circadian

I don't hate on SUV drivers but I wouldn't have one myself. I just don't really get it. As some people mentioned they're great for reduced mobility and I'd agree but a lot of my friends by SUV or crossovers for the space.

It's a hatchback on big wheels essentially. We were all going on a big holiday down th country a few years back and the amount of ****e I could fit into my estate compared to them was astounding. Not to mention the fantastic headroom in the back, even 6ft-ers are comfortable in there.

sebdavis

circadian wrote: »

I don't hate on SUV drivers but I wouldn't have one myself. I just don't really get it. As some people mentioned they're great for reduced mobility and I'd agree but a lot of my friends by SUV or crossovers for the space.

It's a hatchback on big wheels essentially. We were all going on a big holiday down th country a few years back and the amount of ****e I could fit into my estate compared to them was astounding. Not to mention the fantastic headroom in the back, even 6ft-ers are comfortable in there.

So you complain about SUV but then you buy an estate? which is a monster of a thing and for 99% of its life will have dust been carried in the boot

If going that direction better off buying a saloon and then having a roof box for the odd time you might need additional space

Just to add to mindless complaining about what people choose to drive by the way

circadian

circadian wrote: »

I don't hate on SUV drivers but I wouldn't have one myself. I just don't really get it. As some people mentioned they're great for reduced mobility and I'd agree but a lot of my friends by SUV or crossovers for the space.

It's a hatchback on big wheels essentially. We were all going on a big holiday down th country a few years back and the amount of ****e I could fit into my estate compared to them was astounding. Not to mention the fantastic headroom in the back, even 6ft-ers are comfortable in there.

Test drive one, not one of those crossover/mini SUVs, you’ll get it.

forestgirl

sebdavis wrote: »

Exactly like an estate :-) Just a little higher

Exactly and estate cars are so convenient Compared saloon cars I had a passat saloon and the big boot was useless really because the opening of the boot was very shallow and anything that did fit in like shopping was impossible to reach unless you are someone with 6ft long arms

magicbastarder

Dav010 wrote: »

But your contention that a measurement for engine efficiency/pollution should take into account variables which are not connected to the engines performance, is daft

are you serious?
the CO2 generated to power your car actually exists. of *course* we have to try to quantify it.
i would argue that not including potential generation emissions is an even more egregious oversight than the likes of what VW et al were up to with dieselgate.

Dav010 wrote: »

Are you serious? Do you think they should include the emissions in production and transportation of the car, the mining of the metal etc?

hell, yes, i'm serious, for reasons Wibbs has already gone into.

hybrids are worse for the environment to manufacture than ICE cars.
yours - according to the top gear link i posted - weighs *3.2 tons*. it's like you're actually driving two cars.

to get my car up to that weight - it's not a small car, it's an octavia - would require sitting 5 reasonably heavy men in it, and then sitting *13 more* men on the roof.

theteal

I had my first proper drive of the wife's CRV on a jaunt down to East Sussex yesterday. I can see the appeal although completely unnecessary for me as a "daily" driver. Absolute thirsty bugger, 2.0 petrol, was to be expected. It will make our, hopefully more regular, trips back to Dublin a lot more comfortable. She wanted it to replace the old Yaris which was never going to see a 2nd child seat and the added height makes it easier getting them in - I can't really argue (what's the point?) with that logic.

forestgirl

magicbastarder wrote: »

i live very near a school, so probably see them more often than most. but yes, it's rare. occupancy on motorways and for work commuting is very down near 1 IIRC.

i don't think your bus analogy stands, unless we're running buses on routes where a considerable majority of trips are made with a nearly empty bus.

my point was i don't see the point in buying a car with (for most people!) a very rare outlier case in mind. go vans are available from as low as €10 per hour.

I remember this one time I bought a microwave standard enough size and I couldn't fit it in the boot of the passat as the opening wasn't wide enough,also the box it came in would add several inches so would i order a go van or whatever you call it in that scenario? I don't think so

beauf

sebdavis wrote: »

So you complain about SUV but then you buy an estate? which is a monster of a thing and for 99% of its life will have dust been carried in the boot

If going that direction better off buying a saloon and then having a roof box for the odd time you might need additional space

Just to add to mindless complaining about what people choose to drive by the way

We use the boot space in our 7 seater car a lot. The extra seats on a regular basis in normal times. The wide opening doors and big doors are great for getting elderly people in.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

are you serious?
the CO2 generated to power your car actually exists. of *course* we have to try to quantify it.
i would argue that not including potential generation emissions is an even more egregious oversight than the likes of what VW et al were up to with dieselgate.


hell, yes, i'm serious, for reasons Wibbs has already gone into.

hybrids are worse for the environment to manufacture than ICE cars.
yours - according to the top gear link i posted - weighs *3.2 tons*. it's like you're actually driving two cars.

to get my car up to that weight - it's not a small car, it's an octavia - would require sitting 5 reasonably heavy men in it, and then sitting *13 more* men on the roof.

I think you are trolling. The efficiency with which electricity to charge a car engine is produced has nothing to do with a measurement of the efficiency with which the car engine uses it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

There is a list of power stations in Ireland, are you honestly saying the CO2 value for a car engine should include emissions from the various types of power station used to generate the electricity the car engine uses? The same car would have different CO2 emission values dependent on the Irish power station supplying the EV charger. Have another cup of coffee.

forestgirl

beauf wrote: »

I find most of them are heavily compromised on interior space. Especially in the rear. They curve inwares from the sides and the rear and have heavy hipped designed, meaning they are a lot more cramped inside than a reasonably MPV which are boxy for a reason.

Yes thats true indeed but I think a lot of people buy the 7 seater but use primarily as a 5 seater because it gives the more boot space and of course should the need arise to carry an extra 2 at least the option is there which is probably rare enough with a lot of people

forestgirl

circadian wrote: »

I don't hate on SUV drivers but I wouldn't have one myself. I just don't really get it. As some people mentioned they're great for reduced mobility and I'd agree but a lot of my friends by SUV or crossovers for the space.

It's a hatchback on big wheels essentially. We were all going on a big holiday down th country a few years back and the amount of ****e I could fit into my estate compared to them was astounding. Not to mention the fantastic headroom in the back, even 6ft-ers are comfortable in there.

Yet again depending on the suv

magicbastarder

Dav010 wrote: »

There is a list of power stations in Ireland, are you honestly saying the CO2 value for a car engine should include emissions from the various types of power station used to generate the electricity the car engine uses?

CO2 is generated to power your car. you are arguing that that should *not* be captured.
if i drive a leaf or tesla, do i get to claim my car creates zero emissions? i know the leaf has 'zero emissions' written on the boot lid, but that's a con.

magicbastarder

forestgirl wrote: »

I remember this one time I bought a microwave standard enough size and I couldn't fit it in the boot of the passat as the opening wasn't wide enough,also the box it came in would add several inches so would i order a go van or whatever you call it in that scenario? I don't think so

because you couldn't fit a microwave into a passat is not, in itself, an argument that an SUV is the answer. there are *plenty* of cars that microwave would have easily fitted into which are approx the same size.

but let's take your point at face value. how often have you faced that scenario? i guess you don't buy microwaves often. you are saying you need to buy a bigger car (presumably more expensive) for the odd occasion you need to do this. why is hiring a van for maybe a total cost of €100p.a. such a big leap compared to actually having to change your car?

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

CO2 is generated to power your car. you are arguing that that should *not* be captured.
if i drive a leaf or tesla, do i get to claim my car creates zero emissions? i know the leaf has 'zero emissions' written on the boot lid, but that's a con.

If the engine discharges zero emissions when driven, then yes, you get to claim your car creates zero emissions when driven.

How the electricity is made has nothing to do with your engines performance.

The J Stands for Jay

Dav010 wrote: »

McGaggs, why would anyone imagine that?

Because some of us care about the environment and other externalities of our decisions.

magicbastarder

Dav010 wrote: »

If the engine discharges zero emissions when driven, then yes, you get to claim your car creates zero emissions when driven.

How the electricity is made has nothing to do with your engines performance.

you keep going back to the *engine*. i am talking about the *car*.
and if you're going to argue that a tesla creates zero emissions when being driven, while ignoring the emissions created to charge it - which you obviously have to do to be able to drive it, that's a leap of logic straight into the realms of fantasy.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

you keep going back to the *engine*. i am talking about the *car*.

You understand engine CO2 emission values are a measurement engine performance?

magicbastarder wrote: »

So the claimed 72g/km is a fantasy. I know manufacturers claims usually are, but this adds a very tangible new layer to that