Why do people hate on SUV drivers?

magicbastarder

Dav010 wrote: »

You understand engine CO2 emission values are a measurement engine performance?

your car has a motor as well as an engine. i'm amazed this is such a difficult concept to explain.

forestgirl

magicbastarder wrote: »

because you couldn't fit a microwave into a passat is not, in itself, an argument that an SUV is the answer. there are *plenty* of cars that microwave would have easily fitted into which are approx the same size.

but let's take your point at face value. how often have you faced that scenario? i guess you don't buy microwaves often. you are saying you need to buy a bigger car (presumably more expensive) for the odd occasion you need to do this. why is hiring a van for maybe a total cost of €100p.a. such a big leap compared to actually having to change your car?

I have a lot of scenario's though like a lot of people e.g going on holidays the extra large boot is needed(I way over pack by the way like most people)plus I love to take a folding bicycle with me to so for me its probably some way justified and we carry surf boards and wetsuits and we do self catering so I bring shopping and other bits too like my espresso machine 😀 and 2 teens and I don't have enough space

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

Because some of us care about the environment and other externalities of our decisions.

Honestly, I have to admit the reasons I bought it are:

• I love driving RR’s
• The VRT is considerably lower than the petrol/diesel versions.
• I usually drive small distances so a lot cheaper than petrol/diesel.
• €150 yearly tax.
• As car manufacturers move more towards hybrid/full EV production, the value will be better when I change it in 2 yrs.

Saving the environment is not on that list.

magicbastarder

forestgirl wrote: »

I have a lot of scenario's though like a lot of people e.g going on holidays the extra large boot is needed(I way over pack by the way like most people)plus I love to take a folding bicycle with me to so for me its probably some way justified and we carry surf boards and wetsuits and we do self catering so I bring shopping and other bits too like my espresso machine �� and 2 teens and I don't have enough space

you should buy an octavia, they're like the bleedin' tardis. huge boot, nice wide boot lid.

circadian

sebdavis wrote: »

So you complain about SUV but then you buy an estate? which is a monster of a thing and for 99% of its life will have dust been carried in the boot

If going that direction better off buying a saloon and then having a roof box for the odd time you might need additional space

Just to add to mindless complaining about what people choose to drive by the way

Where did I complain? I just stated I don't get it. I use the boot almost daily between shopping and throwing kids stuff in there like bikes/beach toys or whatever. We holiday in Ireland so it's extra handy there. It's also a phev so at least I'm rarely relying on ICE around town.

forestgirl

magicbastarder wrote: »

you should buy an octavia, they're like the bleedin' tardis. huge boot, nice wide boot lid.

I had the passat estate and it was brilliant like that its just a pity it wasn't a little higher to sit into thats the only reason I changed to the allspace it was the best of both worlds 😀 at least in my vw world

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

your car has a motor as well as an engine. i'm amazed this is such a difficult concept to explain.

I’m amazed you don’t understand that car CO2 are a measurement of emissions when driving, not the national power grid.

Damien360

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m amazed you don’t understand that CO2 are a measurement of emissions when driving, not the national power grid.

If you didn't have 5000 posts, I would have thought you were trolling. How you think that the emissions to actually produce your car including its battery metals and the emissions to produce the electricity magically disappear as soon as you say you bought an EV or PHEV.

alias no.9

magicbastarder wrote: »

yours - according to the top gear link i posted - weighs *3.2 tons*. it's like you're actually driving two cars.

Per your own link, the kerb weight is a shade over 2.5 tonnes, still high but its important to keep to facts when you are also claiming that these big cars are driving around empty except for the driver (usually included in the kerb weight).

Wibbs

magicbastarder wrote: »

yours - according to the top gear link i posted - weighs *3.2 tons*. it's like you're actually driving two cars.

In my case it's two of my car with 1000 kilos left over. :eek::D*EDIT* as per Alias' post OK two of my yoke with 300 kilos left over.

theteal wrote: »

She wanted it to replace the old Yaris which was never going to see a 2nd child seat and the added height makes it easier getting them in - I can't really argue (what's the point?) with that logic.

They became popular as family cars for very good reasons alright, especially when you have young kids and child seats and the like.

Dav010 wrote: »

Honestly, I have to admit the reasons I bought it are:

• I love driving RR’s
• The VRT is considerably lower than the petrol/diesel versions.
• I usually drive small distances so a lot cheaper than petrol/diesel.
• €150 yearly tax.
• As car manufacturers move more towards hybrid/full EV production, the value will be better when I change it in 2 yrs.

Saving the environment is not on that list.

You're honest about it and fair play. Quite the few out there claim "green" credentials but it's pretty much all self delusion or bullshít.

magicbastarder

alias no.9 wrote: »

Per your own link, the kerb weight is a shade over 2.5 tonnes, still high but its important to keep to facts when you are also claiming that these big cars are driving around empty except for the driver (usually included in the kerb weight).

cheers, i misread that. i read the gross weight as the kerb weight.
so happy to correct it - it's like putting five reasonably large adults (100kg each) in my car, and stacking *six* more on the roof. not thirteen.

Damien360

Damien360 wrote: »

If you didn't have 5000 posts, I would have thought you were trolling. How you think that the emissions to actually produce your car including its battery metals and the emissions to produce the electricity magically disappear as soon as you say you bought an EV or PHEV.

They don’t magically disappear, they just aren’t relevant to the carbon emissions measurements of a car when driving, and that is what a car CO2 emission value measures.

magicbastarder

Wibbs wrote: »

You're honest about it and fair play. Quite the few out there claim "green" credentials but it's pretty much all self delusion or bullshít.

yep, there's no such thing as an environmentally friendly car, but unfortunately as per the above discussions, manufacturers have succeeded in obfuscating even further the effect they have on the environment.

beauf

forestgirl wrote: »

Yes thats true indeed but I think a lot of people buy the 7 seater but use primarily as a 5 seater because it gives the more boot space and of course should the need arise to carry an extra 2 at least the option is there which is probably rare enough with a lot of people

You aren't thinking of families with 5+ then friends, grand parents, and car pooling for sports and matches. Then splitting kids up if arguing on longer journeys. The sheer handiness of throwing a wheelchair or walker in the boot without having to fold it.

We've gone on holidays with 5 and also used a roof box on 7 seater. Though a box on taller vehicle caused us problem with access to car parks, parks and beaches.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

I have a RR Sport PHEV, 72g/kg CO2, tax €150, most of my journeys are done solely on the electric battery, that’s pretty “green” I’d say.

And, it appears Strumms has a point:

https://www.nextgreencar.com/features/9058/top-10-green-cars-2021/

Dav010 wrote: »

Are you serious? Do you think they should include the emissions in production and transportation of the car, the mining of the metal etc?

Well, yes - the lifetime environmental costs of manufacture and disposal of the vehicle are very significant. It takes an awful lot of EV kms to balance out these costs. For most people, the most environmental car is the one they already have, avoiding the environmental cost of putting a new vehicle on the road.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Well, yes - the lifetime environmental costs of manufacture and disposal of the vehicle are very significant. It takes an awful lot of EV kms to balance out these costs. For most people, the most environmental car is the one they already have, avoiding the environmental cost of putting a new vehicle on the road.

Environment costs of production and disposal of a car are not a consideration for me when buying a car. If you want to walk everywhere, you do that.

forestgirl

beauf wrote: »

You aren't thinking of families with 5+ then friends, grand parents, and car pooling for sports and matches. Then splitting kids up if arguing on longer journeys. The sheer handiness of throwing a wheelchair or walker in the boot without having to fold it.

We've gone on holidays with 5 and also used a roof box on 7 seater. Though a box on taller vehicle caused us problem with access to car parks, parks and beaches.

I have a roof box but I didn't bring it to a beach yet I didn't think I'd have a problem with those over head barrier things? Do you think I will? Like suv's with a roof box not really that much higher than a car really

kirving

Dav010 wrote: »

Environment costs of production and disposal of a car are not a consideration for me when buying a car.

Environmental costs may not be a consideration for your personally, but it's completely reasonable for others to take issue with that, because your (and my) decisions do directly effect the environment in which others live.

In truth they're probably not a big consideration for me personally either. Arguably, my use case suits a Diesel best in terms of the environment, but I've bought a petrol PHEV for similar reasons to yourself (VRT for the most part) which is guided by our government.

I do try to plug it in when I can, and I think I do enough milage that that manufacture of the battery will be a net benefit by end of life.

beauf

forestgirl wrote: »

I have a roof box but I didn't bring it to a beach yet I didn't think I'd have a problem with those over head barrier things? Do you think I will? Like suv's with a roof box not really that much higher than a car really

Well I did with a MPV and most SUVs would be taller. Especially around the South East Aera lots of barriers. Don't currently have a box, but next time I'll get a quick release one, so I can leave back at the holiday home etc. That said I think a roof box is far more accessible on a saloon less practical on taller vehicle.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

Environment costs of production and disposal of a car are not a consideration for me when buying a car. If you want to walk everywhere, you do that.

You choosing not to consider those environmental costs doesn't make them go away unfortunately. Society as a whole will continue to pay the costs of your decisions.

magicbastarder

someone told me a year or two back that a friend of his had bought a range rover PHEV, but that the batteries could only charge when plugged in - i.e. there was no capability for the battery to scavenge spare power from the engine in stop/start traffic.

was he pulling my leg? and if not, is this common in PHEVs?

Stovepipe

..when one of the shorter women in the village has a 7 seater Land Cruiser Amazon,for her three children and can barely see over the steering wheel. When you see her struggling to get into it, because she's small...you have to restrain yourself from saying "just buy a Skoda Octavia estate". Half the money, half the running cost, plenty of room.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You choosing not to consider those environmental costs doesn't make them go away unfortunately. Society as a whole will continue to pay the costs of your decisions.

I’m comfortable with that.

Stovepipe

Stovepipe wrote: »

..when one of the shorter women in the village has a 7 seater Land Cruiser Amazon,for her three children and can barely see over the steering wheel. When you see her struggling to get into it, because she's small...you have to restrain yourself from saying "just buy a Skoda Octavia estate". Half the money, half the running cost, plenty of room.

A touch of sexism there, maybe that short woman doesn’t want to drive a Skoda, and does want to drive a big Land Cruiser, or are they just for male farmer? Her choice.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

someone told me a year or two back that a friend of his had bought a range rover PHEV, but that the batteries could only charge when plugged in - i.e. there was no capability for the battery to scavenge spare power from the engine in stop/start traffic.

was he pulling my leg? and if not, is this common in PHEVs?

RR PHEVs have Regenerative Braking which uses the electric motor to harvest kinetic energy whilst braking, converting it to electrical energy that is used to recharge the high-voltage battery.

magicbastarder

you'd have thought in a vehicle weighing 2.5 tons they'd have been able to squeeze in a doohickey which could capture energy from the engine too.

forestgirl

Stovepipe wrote: »

..when one of the shorter women in the village has a 7 seater Land Cruiser Amazon,for her three children and can barely see over the steering wheel. When you see her struggling to get into it, because she's small...you have to restrain yourself from saying "just buy a Skoda Octavia estate". Half the money, half the running cost, plenty of room.

I doubt very much she's struggling to get into it 😅 .
I think it may well be the case that you would like a 7 seater land cruiser yourself 😬

Eric Cartman

Stovepipe wrote: »

..when one of the shorter women in the village has a 7 seater Land Cruiser Amazon,for her three children and can barely see over the steering wheel. When you see her struggling to get into it, because she's small...you have to restrain yourself from saying "just buy a Skoda Octavia estate". Half the money, half the running cost, plenty of room.

The Amazon is up there with the Range Rover and G Wagon as proper luxury 4x4'ing . Sad they don't sell them here any more , the current gen Range Rover is the last of the full size 4x4's with a Diesel V8 in it and not some asthmatic 2 litre with a washing machine motor strapped on the side.

Phil.x

Isn't it only the greens and cyclists who dont like SUVs.

garv123

Stovepipe wrote: »

..when one of the shorter women in the village has a 7 seater Land Cruiser Amazon,for her three children and can barely see over the steering wheel. When you see her struggling to get into it, because she's small...you have to restrain yourself from saying "just buy a Skoda Octavia estate". Half the money, half the running cost, plenty of room.

about 1/4 the money, have you seen the price of those landcruisers :eek:

Stovepipe

Dav010 wrote: »

A touch of sexism there, maybe that short woman doesn’t want to drive a Skoda, and does want to drive a big Land Cruiser, or are they just for male farmer? Her choice.

No. Three kids and their usual bits and bobs. Huge vehicle that she can barely see out of. The running costs alone don't make sense. Plenty of farmers around the village with big SUVs too.

Stovepipe

Stovepipe wrote: »

No. Three kids and their usual bits and bobs. Huge vehicle that she can barely see out of. The running costs alone don't make sense. Plenty of farmers around the village with big SUVs too.

Her choice, not yours. Would you be saying the above if it was a small man with kids in the car?

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m comfortable with that.

I'm not comfortable with sharing the costs of your vehicle choices.

Wibbs

Dav010 wrote: »

Her choice, not yours. Would you be saying the above if it was a small man with kids in the car?

I would, if he couldn't see over the steering wheel. Though things like parking sensors and the like have made a huge difference over the last few years for those who were not blessed with much by way of distance judging. You tend to see far fewer cars of any size with dents and scratches at the four corners compared the past.

magicbastarder

i can tell you one SUV driver i do dislike; the one who has parked across the end of my driveway several times, gets out of the car, and walks up to the school nearby to collect his kids. he's usually gone about ten minutes.
it would probably be a stretch for me to draw any conclusions from the fact that his is the only large SUV i regularly see there, and also the only driver who does that.

Fitz II

Sorry 26 pages of this thread is too much to go back through....have the Nazi's been mentioned yet?

magicbastarder

did they invent the SUV?

Fitz II

magicbastarder wrote: »

did they invent the SUV?

Seems highly likely https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not comfortable with sharing the costs of your vehicle choices.

That’s a bonus.

sebdavis

magicbastarder wrote: »

i can tell you one SUV driver i do dislike; the one who has parked across the end of my driveway several times, gets out of the car, and walks up to the school nearby to collect his kids. he's usually gone about ten minutes.
it would probably be a stretch for me to draw any conclusions from the fact that his is the only large SUV i regularly see there, and also the only driver who does that.

Some people are di*kheads. They could be driving a car, bicycle, motorbike, tractor and they will still be di*kheads!!! just the way of the World

magicbastarder

true, but there have been trends repeatedly observed with drivers of expensive cars, e.g.

"Three studies over the last five years show that people driving expensive cars were more likely to cut off other motorists and less likely to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks."
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/Rich-peo.html

Fitz II

Unsurprisingly cycling forum moderator dislikes drivers of expensive cars.

sebdavis

magicbastarder wrote: »

true, but there have been trends repeatedly observed with drivers of expensive cars, e.g.

"Three studies over the last five years show that people driving expensive cars were more likely to cut off other motorists and less likely to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks."
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/Rich-peo.html

Questionable study to be honest and seems to be playing towards their readership.....

It used to be BMW/Audi drivers are d**kheads when those car where rare, now they are a lot more popular its types of car v make up

As I said, some people are d**kheads, doesn't matter what they drive.

magicbastarder

Fitz II wrote: »

Unsurprisingly cycling forum moderator dislikes drivers of expensive cars.

well, they *do* say cyclists make for better - and more observant - drivers.

colm_mcm

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, they *do* say cyclists make for better - and more observant - drivers.

They would say that though, wouldn’t they.

magicbastarder

sebdavis wrote: »

Questionable study to be honest and seems to be playing towards their readership.....

that cites three different studies, and is dated 2017; and there's been another widely publicised one since.

and true, it's going to be difficult doing research in this area, because to do so you need to be able to quantify behaviour in a way that is very simple and repeatable. and dickish behaviour is usually going to be complex to record and repeatedly observe. it seems the 'yielding to pedestrians' is the simplest way of measuring this.

hand on heart, i am biased against certain drivers when i see their cars, especially when out on the bike. 10 or 15 year old passats with nurburgring stickers, for example; big red flag there. large expensive SUVs, that sort of thing.
i'm not saying all drivers of such cars drive inconsiderately, obviously.

Fitz II

Its interesting how we put our own bias on things....what I took from these "studies" was that being a jerk makes you more financially successful.

THis is how it starts boys, we find a behaviour we dont like, identify a group of people we dislike and attribute the behavior to them, round them up....you know where this is going.....

magicbastarder

you seem a little too focused with this particular concept.

Fitz II

magicbastarder wrote: »

you seem a little too focused with this particular concept.

You saying it didnt happen :eek:

AndrewJRenko

colm_mcm wrote: »

They would say that though, wouldn’t they.

At least one UK motor insurer gives discounts to cyclists, given the evidence showing that they are safer drivers.

I hope the SUV driver's WhatsApp message was worth it.

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1381982779802484736?s=19