Landlord witholding deposit

LorelaiG

Landlord has withheld our deposit. Couple of reasons stated, we replied with a couple of points which he ignored. We also requested that he furnished receipts to prove that he used the deposit for the things he stated. Also ignored. We have lodged a dispute with the RTB. We still live quite close to the property and know the landlord has not carried out any work to the property and is selling (we knew this).

If he cannot provide invoices to prove that the deposit has been used for the stuff he is claiming are we likely to get the deposit back?

LorelaiG

LorelaiG wrote: »

Landlord has withheld our deposit. Couple of reasons stated, we replied with a couple of points which he ignored. We also requested that he furnished receipts to prove that he used the deposit for the things he stated. Also ignored. We have lodged a dispute with the RTB. We still live quite close to the property and know the landlord has not carried out any work to the property and is selling (we knew this).

If he cannot provide invoices to prove that the deposit has been used for the stuff he is claiming are we likely to get the deposit back?

Lot of variables there....
How long was your lease/ tenure??
Did ye do a " walkaround" before leaving??
Did he/ she give proper 'notice?
In your view/ opinion was there a necessity to comple some work prior to rerenting / selling??
Was your rent ' up to date'? ( as in 'always')

dkav9

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lot of variables there....
How long was your lease/ tenure??
Did ye do a " walkaround" before leaving??
Did he/ she give proper 'notice?
In your view/ opinion was there a necessity to comple some work prior to rerenting / selling??
Was your rent ' up to date'? ( as in 'always')

Not the OP, but I will be leaving my own rental soon. What do you mean by a "walk-around"?

dkav9

dkav9 wrote: »

Not the OP, but I will be leaving my own rental soon. What do you mean by a "walk-around"?

Landlord AND tennant do a " walkaround" together.....and agree what's what.....I.e. that property/ furnishings are 'similar' ( allow for normal wear&tear) to the original rental condition. Before & after photos ( or video) is always a good idea

LorelaiG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lot of variables there....
How long was your lease/ tenure??
Did ye do a " walkaround" before leaving??
Did he/ she give proper 'notice?
In your view/ opinion was there a necessity to comple some work prior to rerenting / selling??
Was your rent ' up to date'? ( as in 'always')

11 years. No walk around he wasn't interested he sent the letting agent who had never set foot in the house (only hired him so he could accept hap for us) before to take pictures, the landlord never set foot in the house for the past eleven years either, never did an inspection or anything. Yes we had proper notice and due to the covid ban on evictions we actually had a bit more time thankfully. Rent was up to date, always. There was a few things that needed to be fixed (cracked glass etc not disputing those things but again he hasn't furnished receipts or hasn't gotten it fixed property has been empty over 8 weeks now and nothing done) and he is claiming the property needs to be professionally cleaned which I'm not disputing either but after eleven years I'd have expected it to need to be professionally cleaned and not taken from the deposit.

Mike3549

Looks like an old style cowboy landlord. Yes, the landlord/agent has to give you a proof/receipts of expenses for cleaning and other stuff. RTB is the way to go. Was the tenancy even registered?

Well, on the face of it you DO have a legitimate grievience, main factors being duration of tenancy AND vouched evidence that rent was never in arrears/ behind. The minor items you DO acknowledge need sorting.....he/she will create a HELL of an invoice for those--- a €20 repair will become a €125+VAT repair ( you can imagine how this 'works'). As regards pro cleaning...thats a red herring..... after 11yrs NOT your tab UNLESS the 'final cleaning' was specifically mentioned in original lease/ contract. The BEST way to approach this, assuming there's a line of communication is to A. Inform l/l of your intention to raise the issue with RTB. Usually this will lead to some kind of counter- offer ( say 50% return of deposit). As you can imagine RTB are up the walls & historical issues( you say its circa 2Months since you left) aren't really a priority..... two months later you're re-settled & the property is more likely than not on the market. Looking at it from RTB point of view it'll be a case of " he said/ she said" so they'll be reluctant to get involved.
Hate to be negative but I would suggest a 50% return of you deposit would be a GOOD RESULT.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, on the face of it you DO have a legitimate grievience, main factors being duration of tenancy AND vouched evidence that rent was never in arrears/ behind.

I'm struggling to understand how the duration of the tenancy factors in to the return of the deposit?

Deleted User wrote: »

The BEST way to approach this, assuming there's a line of communication is to A. Inform l/l of your intention to raise the issue with RTB. Usually this will lead to some kind of counter- offer ( say 50% return of deposit). As you can imagine RTB are up the walls & historical issues( you say its circa 2Months since you left) aren't really a priority..... two months later you're re-settled & the property is more likely than not on the market. Looking at it from RTB point of view it'll be a case of " he said/ she said" so they'll be reluctant to get involved.
Hate to be negative but I would suggest a 50% return of you deposit would be a GOOD RESULT.

RTB would typically lean towards the tenant. Personally I'd run with the RTB dispute unless I knew there were genuine reasons for the deposit to be withheld.

MacDanger

LorelaiG wrote: »

Landlord has withheld our deposit. Couple of reasons stated, we replied with a couple of points which he ignored. We also requested that he furnished receipts to prove that he used the deposit for the things he stated. Also ignored. We have lodged a dispute with the RTB. We still live quite close to the property and know the landlord has not carried out any work to the property and is selling (we knew this).

If he cannot provide invoices to prove that the deposit has been used for the stuff he is claiming are we likely to get the deposit back?

If you can tell us what reason(s) the LL gave for the deposit being retained, you'll probably get more useful replies as people will be able to give their opinion on whether the deductions were reasonable or not.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

RTB would typically lean towards the tenant. Personally I'd run with the RTB dispute unless I knew there were genuine reasons for the deposit to be withheld.

Utter nonsense, this is an urban myth that the RTB " lean toward" one side or the other. Dealing with several landlords the general consensus is that they deal with each case in a FAIR, unbiased and transparent manner. By your logic a landlord could/ would never retain a deposit--- even if he had the tenants from hell that burst the place up & didn't bother much with actually paying the rent.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how the duration of the tenancy factors in to the return of the deposit?

Struggle no more.....one of the first / primary factors in a "retain deposit" situation is the DURATION of tenancy. Say I rented with a brand new washing machine ( or tv, tumble dryer...whatever) in situ. Now, the op has been an ideal tennant insofar the l/l never had to visit his investment for 11yrs....or 132 Months of hassle-free income/ rent. After 11yrs I would expect that washing machine to be end-of-life or very nearly there....it would be a reasonable expectation that I should have prepared/ budgeted for that eventuality. On the other hand, after say a 4/6 Month let I'd expect the washing machine to be fine n dandy. Also, the duration goes to show that there MUST have been a positive interaction between l/l & tennant. Its worth noting that the l/l had the full & unencumbered BENEFIT of the deposit ( € X) for over a decade

handlemaster

LorelaiG wrote: »

11 years. No walk around he wasn't interested he sent the letting agent who had never set foot in the house (only hired him so he could accept hap for us) before to take pictures, the landlord never set foot in the house for the past eleven years either, never did an inspection or anything. Yes we had proper notice and due to the covid ban on evictions we actually had a bit more time thankfully. Rent was up to date, always. There was a few things that needed to be fixed (cracked glass etc not disputing those things but again he hasn't furnished receipts or hasn't gotten it fixed property has been empty over 8 weeks now and nothing done) and he is claiming the property needs to be professionally cleaned which I'm not disputing either but after eleven years I'd have expected it to need to be professionally cleaned and not taken from the deposit.

It not the length of time you have rented a place the dictates the cleaning. The property should be returned cleaned. How much is the deposit ? have you gotten quotes yourself for the work. For a broken window you would be surprised how much it costs. I got one replaced a few years back and it as 500 euro , it wasnt a particularly big window and that was with two quotes. And I had dealth with one guy before I know he was giving me the price and not trying to rob me. In short what you think shouldnt cost much can surprise you when you need the work done.

handlemaster

Deleted User wrote: »

Graham wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how the duration of the tenancy factors in to the return of the deposit?

Struggle no more.....one of the first / primary factors in a "retain deposit" situation is the DURATION of tenancy. Say I rented with a brand new washing machine ( or tv, tumble dryer...whatever) in situ. Now, the op has been an ideal tennant insofar the l/l never had to visit his investment for 11yrs....or 132 Months of hassle-free income/ rent. After 11yrs I would expect that washing machine to be end-of-life or very nearly there....it would be a reasonable expectation that I should have prepared/ budgeted for that eventuality. On the other hand, after say a 4/6 Month let I'd expect the washing machine to be fine n dandy. Also, the duration goes to show that there MUST have been a positive interaction between l/l & tennant. Its worth noting that the l/l had the full & unencumbered BENEFIT of the deposit ( € X) for over a decade

Not understanding this washing machine example.

Dav010

handlemaster wrote: »

Not understanding this washing machine example.

How much is an 11 yr old washing machine worth? Probably a lot less that a six month old one.

handlemaster

Dav010 wrote: »

How much is an 11 yr old washing machine worth? Probably a lot less that a six month old one.

Did the OP mention any issue with electrical goods ? Really its hard to give the OP advise or comment properly when its very little detail on what has happened and why.

Dav010

handlemaster wrote: »

Did the OP mention any issue with electrical goods ? Really its hard to give the OP advise or comment properly when its very little detail on what has happened and why.

I think it was an analogy, “say I rented....” is the giveaway.

10pennymixup

Deleted User wrote: »

Graham wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how the duration of the tenancy factors in to the return of the deposit?

Struggle no more.....one of the first / primary factors in a "retain deposit" situation is the DURATION of tenancy. Say I rented with a brand new washing machine ( or tv, tumble dryer...whatever) in situ. Now, the op has been an ideal tennant insofar the l/l never had to visit his investment for 11yrs....or 132 Months of hassle-free income/ rent. After 11yrs I would expect that washing machine to be end-of-life or very nearly there....it would be a reasonable expectation that I should have prepared/ budgeted for that eventuality. On the other hand, after say a 4/6 Month let I'd expect the washing machine to be fine n dandy. Also, the duration goes to show that there MUST have been a positive interaction between l/l & tennant. Its worth noting that the l/l had the full & unencumbered BENEFIT of the deposit ( € X) for over a decade

handlemaster wrote: »

Not understanding this washing machine example.

Not getting it either! Is Ken saying if the washer is missing the LL can only ask for the value of a depreciated appliance and not the cost of a new one?

What it's got to do with the OP I don't know.

And about cleaning Ken, are you saying that after 11 years the LL has no right to get a professional cleaner in. That after a long tenancy it's OK for the property to be left in an unclean state?

And they only time I've heard of the term "walkaround" is on Judge Judy.

Yes by all means meet a tenant (precovid) take meter readings and a preliminary inspection but a walkaround as you put it is not definitive proof that all is well with a property. It's one of the reasons RTA legislation provides for a LL to return any deposit due in a reasonable but non specific time frame.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

By your logic a landlord could/ would never retain a deposit--- even if he had the tenants from hell that burst the place up & didn't bother much with actually paying the rent.

Not at all what I said or implied.

Deleted User wrote: »

Struggle no more.....one of the first / primary factors in a "retain deposit" situation is the DURATION of tenancy. Say I rented with a brand new washing machine ( or tv, tumble dryer...whatever) in situ. Now, the op has been an ideal tennant insofar the l/l never had to visit his investment for 11yrs....or 132 Months of hassle-free income/ rent. After 11yrs I would expect that washing machine to be end-of-life or very nearly there....it would be a reasonable expectation that I should have prepared/ budgeted for that eventuality. On the other hand, after say a 4/6 Month let I'd expect the washing machine to be fine n dandy. Also, the duration goes to show that there MUST have been a positive interaction between l/l & tennant. Its worth noting that the l/l had the full & unencumbered BENEFIT of the deposit ( € X) for over a decade

You appear to be confusing several things.

The duration of the tenancy has no bearing on the return of a deposit. The replacement/repair cost of something the tenant is responsible for may have some connection to its age but that's not the same thing.

The length of time a landlord has led the deposit likewise is not a factor in its return.

Marcusm

Graham wrote: »

Not at all what I said or implied.



You appear to be confusing several things.

The duration of the tenancy has no bearing on the return of a deposit. The replacement/repair cost of something the tenant is responsible for may have some connection to its age but that's not the same thing.

The length of time a landlord has led the deposit likewise is not a factor in its return.

From a practical perspective, the length of the tenancy, the absence of any periodic inspections and the absence of any major renewal, replacement or repair jobs would be factors in any argument by the landlord that there has been anything other than fair wear & tear in the absence of any overriding evidence to the contrary. If, for example, all the internal doors had been removed then I would agree that the length of the tenancy was irrelevant. However, in the context of worn furnishings, carpet etc, I would say it is of significant relevance.

handlemaster

Dav010 wrote: »

I think it was an analogy, “say I rented....” is the giveaway.

Still doesn't make sense

Graham

Marcusm wrote: »

However, in the context of worn furnishings, carpet etc, I would say it is of significant relevance.

I see what you're getting at but it's the age of the item rather than the length of the tenancy that's relevant even though there may be some correlation.

The OP hasn't said the basis for the withholding of the deposit. It's typically 'cleaning' charges and/or disputes over what's reasonable wear and tear.

ted1

Dav010 wrote: »

How much is an 11 yr old washing machine worth? Probably a lot less that a six month old one.

0, as he is a landlord he’ll have deprecated it over 8 years

LorelaiG

Just coming back to this received determination order from RTB yesterday and adjudication awarded us deposit less 120€ (for damage to the door windows and removal of small amount of rubbish left behind in back garden) plus €500 for breach of landlord obligations. Landlord has ten working days to appeal so we will see how that goes

Mrs OBumble

LorelaiG wrote: »

Just coming back to this received determination order from RTB yesterday and adjudication awarded us deposit less 120€ (for damage to the door windows and removal of small amount of rubbish left behind in back garden) plus €500 for breach of landlord obligations. Landlord has ten working days to appeal so we will see how that goes

Let us know when/if you actually see any cash.

LorelaiG

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Let us know when/if you actually see any cash.

Will do! I'm anticipating that he may mess us about.