50% Rent increase outside RPZ

Comment_below

Hi all,

Sorry to add to the thread with my own query, but easier than making new thread.

Am I right in thinking that rent increases can happen right now?

I was under the impression it was from 22nd April? (10 days from the 12th April end of Level 5 lockdown)

I have a 3 bed property that I bought with a single tenant insitu and they've been paying their share of rent on time. I say 'their share' as the Council pay me the majority through the HAP scheme. The single tenant is no issue and keeps place clean and tidy and has been there 5 years.

However, the rent is far below the current market rate and the property is under utilised as a 3 bed property for a single tenant.

The current rental rate is not viable and I intend to increase rate to market rate. However, this would mean a 50% increase, which I would rather not do but it has to be financially viable. This would mean the tenant would be personally liable for the renatl increase as the Council are already paying the max cap. This would mean the tenant would be paying 3.5 times what they are already topping up the rent.

Worst case scenario they move out within the 90 days rent review period and/or stop paying but I'll still have the payment from the Council.

Any advice?

punisher5112

Comment_below wrote: »

Hi all,

Sorry to add to the thread with my own query, but easier than making new thread.

Am I right in thinking that rent increases can happen right now?

I was under the impression it was from 22nd April? (10 days from the 12th April end of Level 5 lockdown)

I have a 3 bed property that I bought with a single tenant insitu and they've been paying their share of rent on time. I say 'their share' as the Council pay me the majority through the HAP scheme. The single tenant is no issue and keeps place clean and tidy and has been there 5 years.

However, the rent is far below the current market rate and the property is under utilised as a 3 bed property for a single tenant.

The current rental rate is not viable and I intend to increase rate to market rate. However, this would mean a 50% increase, which I would rather not do but it has to be financially viable. This would mean the tenant would be personally liable for the renatl increase as the Council are already paying the max cap. This would mean the tenant would be paying 3.5 times what they are already topping up the rent.

Worst case scenario they move out within the 90 days rent review period and/or stop paying but I'll still have the payment from the Council.

Any advice?

Very optimistic, I could see them completely stopping payment, hap also, this will be a tough one to be honest in worst case.

Comment_below

punisher5112 wrote: »

Very optimistic, I could see them completely stopping payment, hap also, this will be a tough one to be honest in worst case.

HAP payment only stops if you tell them and will also affect if tenant wants to avail of HAP in future.

I would have a different feeling if it were a family/couple but a single person in a 3 bed is being under utilized.

Comment_below

Hi all,

Am I right in thinking that rent increases can happen right now?

I was under the impression it was from 22nd April? (10 days from the 12th April end of Level 5 lockdown)

I have a 3 bed property that I bought with a single tenant insitu and they've been paying their share of rent on time. I say 'their share' as the Council pay me the majority through the HAP scheme. The single tenant is no issue and keeps place clean and tidy and has been there 5 years.

However, the rent is far below the current market rate and the property is under utilised as a 3 bed property for a single tenant.

The current rental rate is not viable and I intend to increase rate to market rate. However, this would mean a 50% increase, which I would rather not do but it has to be financially viable. This would mean the tenant would be personally liable for the renatl increase as the Council are already paying the max cap. This would mean the tenant would be paying 3.5 times what they are already topping up the rent.

Worst case scenario they move out within the 90 days rent review period and/or stop paying but I'll still have the payment from the Council.

Any advice?

Browney7

Comment_below wrote: »

Hi all,

Am I right in thinking that rent increases can happen right now?

I was under the impression it was from 22nd April? (10 days from the 12th April end of Level 5 lockdown)

I have a 3 bed property that I bought with a single tenant insitu and they've been paying their share of rent on time. I say 'their share' as the Council pay me the majority through the HAP scheme. The single tenant is no issue and keeps place clean and tidy and has been there 5 years.

However, the rent is far below the current market rate and the property is under utilised as a 3 bed property for a single tenant.

The current rental rate is not viable and I intend to increase rate to market rate. However, this would mean a 50% increase, which I would rather not do but it has to be financially viable. This would mean the tenant would be personally liable for the renatl increase as the Council are already paying the max cap. This would mean the tenant would be paying 3.5 times what they are already topping up the rent.

Worst case scenario they move out within the 90 days rent review period and/or stop paying but I'll still have the payment from the Council.

Any advice?

I think your worst case scenario is that they will stay put for a lot longer than the 90 day rent review period! I would expect the tenant will have no where to go (not your fault) and have no incentive to leave in a hurry

grassylawn

Comment_below wrote: »

Hi all,

Sorry to add to the thread with my own query, but easier than making new thread.

Am I right in thinking that rent increases can happen right now?

I was under the impression it was from 22nd April? (10 days from the 12th April end of Level 5 lockdown)

I have a 3 bed property that I bought with a single tenant insitu and they've been paying their share of rent on time. I say 'their share' as the Council pay me the majority through the HAP scheme. The single tenant is no issue and keeps place clean and tidy and has been there 5 years.

However, the rent is far below the current market rate and the property is under utilised as a 3 bed property for a single tenant.

The current rental rate is not viable and I intend to increase rate to market rate. However, this would mean a 50% increase, which I would rather not do but it has to be financially viable. This would mean the tenant would be personally liable for the renatl increase as the Council are already paying the max cap. This would mean the tenant would be paying 3.5 times what they are already topping up the rent.

Worst case scenario they move out within the 90 days rent review period and/or stop paying but I'll still have the payment from the Council.

Any advice?

Why not look at moving in a second tenant? The existing tenant could rent a room instead of the whole house, at 75% of their current rent.

The DayDream

You're aware that the tenant not only tops up the rent (because they are almost always above the hap ceiling) but also pays a contribution to HAP?

How any landlord can think it's reasonable to increase by 350% of the top up ia beyond me. We really need to make the whole country an RPZ if this is how LL's will operate.

Why do you think the council will continue paying if she moves out? And why do you think she'll move out at all?

She's not gonna find it easy to get a HAP landlord and deposit together, you might think it's not your problem but buying a property with a HAP tenant and raising the rent 3.5 fold... I'd dig my heels in if I were them!

Lashes28

Op why do you care that it's a single tenant living in a three bedroom house if she's looking after it and paying rent? Surely the more people in the house the more wear and tear.

Padre_Pio

Any wiggle room in the contract to move more people in?

Baby01032012

Browney7 wrote: »

I think your worst case scenario is that they will stay put for a lot longer than the 90 day rent review period! I would expect the tenant will have no where to go (not your fault) and have no incentive to leave in a hurry

This. And it’s happened to me a number of times and not because I increased the rent. The tenant can at any stage not pay their contribution to the council, you get one warning and then HAP payment is stopped.

Good chance tenant will stop paying and overhold. The time from notice for rent arrears to adjudication decision - appeal - tribunal - decision - determination order is one year of no rent. If they don’t move out with the DO then you will have to take high court case at your own expense which is another 6 months.

JCX BXC

The DayDream wrote: »

You're aware that the tenant not only tops up the rent (because they are almost always above the hap ceiling) but also pays a contribution to HAP?

How any landlord can think it's reasonable to increase by 350% of the top up ia beyond me. We really need to make the whole country an RPZ if this is how LL's will operate.

Why do you think the council will continue paying if she moves out? And why do you think she'll move out at all?

She's not gonna find it easy to get a HAP landlord and deposit together, you might think it's not your problem but buying a property with a HAP tenant and raising the rent 3.5 fold... I'd dig my heels in if I were them!

And this is the big issue, for some reason it's fine for a landlord to be losing money every month in their investment, simply because they're a landlord and you don't like them.

"I'd dig my heels in if I were them", which is why we're seeing such a mass exodus of reasonable landlords, and are only being left with the c*nts who will squeeze every penny they can.

Baby01032012

grassylawn wrote: »

Why not look at moving in a second tenant? The existing tenant could rent a room instead of the whole house, at 75% of their current rent.

Can’t move another tenant in if existing tenant is renting the whole house! They are probably receiving the higher HAP payment for living alone, much lower for shared accommodation.

I can’t believe I’m actually commenting on multiple threads by the same poster, no wonder the user name “comment_below”. Seriously stick to the one thread!

Comment_below

The DayDream wrote: »

You're aware that the tenant not only tops up the rent (because they are almost always above the hap ceiling) but also pays a contribution to HAP?

How any landlord can think it's reasonable to increase by 350% of the top up ia beyond me. We really need to make the whole country an RPZ if this is how LL's will operate.

Why do you think the council will continue paying if she moves out? And why do you think she'll move out at all?

She's not gonna find it easy to get a HAP landlord and deposit together, you might think it's not your problem but buying a property with a HAP tenant and raising the rent 3.5 fold... I'd dig my heels in if I were them!

Firstly, I'm not sure why everyone thinks it's a she, the tenant is actually a single male tenant in their 30's.

I'm a very reasonable person and will go beyond and find the tenant a 1 bed accommodation. There are other reasons as to why there is a rent review and not just financial.

I understand the tenant also pays a weekly contribution to the council. However, is it reasonable for the tenant to expect paying rent 50% less than the market rate?

Is it fair that the single tenant pays less than 100 euro a month for a 3 bed house as they have been doing for the last 5 years?

I am not a landlord by choice, and the property was purchased for personal future plans that have now arisen.

Comment_below

grassylawn wrote: »

Why not look at moving in a second tenant? The existing tenant could rent a room instead of the whole house, at 75% of their current rent.

Okay, this is a very reasonable inventive solution.

But I acknowledge, the implications of the reduction of HAP from the entire house to a single room.

Is there anywhere I can get this information? I can't find it through a google search.

KTBFFH

Comment_below wrote: »

Okay, this is a very reasonable inventive solution.

But I acknowledge, the implications of the reduction of HAP from the entire house to a single room.

Is there anywhere I can get this information? I can't find it through a google search.

Fellow HAP landlord here. You will get advice on this, but every situation is different, and with your situation, you should really be calling HAP about it. I don't see an issue with you wanting to make use of the rooms available, take the possible 25% reduction for current tennant as example.

It would be different if it was a family, but it's quite unusual for HAP to be paying a 3 bed for a single person to live in, even if it is in the country. HAP are subsidising a person to have a place to live, not to have a house each. HAP are used to and open to changes in situation, once there is agreement between you and tennant I can't see them having much issue.
Granted, it's not the ideal time to be doing it during COVID, but making enquiries and planning now for later in the year is very reasonable as notice will have to be given either way.

Comment_below

KTBFFH wrote: »

Fellow HAP landlord here. You will get advice on this, but every situation is different, and with your situation, you should really be calling HAP about it. I don't see an issue with you wanting to make use of the rooms available, take the possible 25% reduction for current tennant as example.

It would be different if it was a family, but it's quite unusual for HAP to be paying a 3 bed for a single person to live in, even if it is in the country. HAP are subsidising a person to have a place to live, not to have a house each. HAP are used to and open to changes in situation, once there is agreement between you and tennant I can't see them having much issue.
Granted, it's not the ideal time to be doing it during COVID, but making enquiries and planning now for later in the year is very reasonable as notice will have to be given either way.

Okay that's a fair comment. I have the email of the person that dealt with setting up this tenancy and I'll ask in confidence if some thinking outside the box could be done.

It's 12 miles from a city so not completely remote.

Graham

Mod Note

some posts moved. OP please stick to one thread for this topic.

KTBFFH

Comment_below wrote: »

Okay that's a fair comment. I have the email of the person that dealt with setting up this tenancy and I'll ask in confidence if some thinking outside the box could be done.

It's 12 miles from a city so not completely remote.

I mean this with respect: with HAP there should not be much 'thinking outside the box' to be done. There are clear guidlines and a handbook on CitizensInformation website for both LL and tenants. HAP won't allow agreements unless the are open, given notice, rent reviews, and accepted with reasoning.

Email the person, but you really are better off calling HAP and explaining the situation. No matter what, the process will take time. When you got this house, you understood there was a tennant in situ, and you have to abide by the rules of that contract.

Comment_below

KTBFFH wrote: »

I mean this with respect: with HAP there should not be much 'thinking outside the box' to be done. There are clear guidlines and a handbook on CitizensInformation website for both LL and tenants. HAP won't allow agreements unless the are open, given notice, rent reviews, and accepted with reasoning.

Email the person, but you really are better off calling HAP and explaining the situation. No matter what, the process will take time. When you got this house, you understood there was a tennant in situ, and you have to abide by the rules of that contract.

Yes absolutely, I will be abiding with all procedures including that of PRTB. The PRTB will be more concerned with the rent review than Council, the Council could put forward another HAP tenant and/or other solution provided that the current tenant agrees. Otherwise the tenant will be burdened with the rent increase, even if he has been paying 50% less than the market rate for the last couple of years.

meijin

Comment_below wrote: »

Is it fair that the single tenant pays less than 100 euro a month for a 3 bed house as they have been doing for the last 5 years?

you're surely getting more than 100, right?

why do you care how much is his contribution?

or that property is "underutilized"?

if the rent is too low, sure, you can look to increase it, but the tenant is on HAP, will not be able to pay more, will need to move, this might cause problems

and remember that the increase cannot be higher than similar properties in the area - did you check that?

Comment_below wrote: »

I am not a landlord by choice, and the property was purchased for personal future plans that have now arisen.

you've purchased the property with the tenant - so how was that not your choice?

what future plans? it seems confusing now... do you want to increase rent, or use the property for something else and the increase is just an excuse to force the tenant out?

Comment_below

meijin wrote: »

you're surely getting more than 100, right?

why do you care how much is his contribution?

or that property is "underutilized"?

if the rent is too low, sure, you can look to increase it, but the tenant is on HAP, will not be able to pay more, will need to move, this might cause problems

and remember that the increase cannot be higher than similar properties in the area - did you check that?



you've purchased the property with the tenant - so how was that not your choice?

what future plans? it seems confusing now... do you want to increase rent, or use the property for something else and the increase is just an excuse to force the tenant out?

Even with a 50% increase in current rent, the increased rate will still be lower than the market rate rent in the area. The property is a modern house compared to older houses. I have several adverts to prove this to RTB.

I care because it is my property and unfortunately I can't afford to be a charity. I am however open to all advice to minimise the tenants rent payment including bringing in other tenants including HAP tenants.

If I were some money mad landlord, boards.ie would be the last place I would come for advice, Thankfully some posters have recognised this and provided helpful constructive advice! Thank you!

Graham

Comment_below wrote: »

Thankfully some posters have recognised this and provided helpful constructive advice! Thank you!

If you clarified your objective/s you might get more constructive advice.

It's not at all clear what you're trying to achieve here.

Comment_below

Graham wrote: »

If you clarified your objective/s you might get more constructive advice.

It's not at all clear what you're trying to achieve here.

i) Increase rent to just below market rate, albeit a 50% increase.
ii) Minimize impact of this rent increase on the single tenat in the 3 bed house yet maintaining financial viability.

The property was purchased for personal use in the far future when I would be working in this city for periods of time throughout the year.

I could disrupt tenant needlessly and issue a termination notice to quit as I'll be using for personal use, allowing for 6 months notice period. 'Move in' and rent out other 2 rooms and get a far greater rental income (plus in cash or through rent a room scheme tax free). However, I am trying to explore all avenues before I proceed, including renting a room in a strangers house myself (paying same amount as the rent I receive) while I work in this city, while the single tenant rents a 3 bed house for less than 100 euro (to him).

Any constructive advice welcome!

Graham

Still not particularly clear.

Let's deal with the elephant first. Do you need the property for personal use?

KTBFFH

Comment_below wrote: »

i) Increase rent to just below market rate, albeit a 50% increase.
ii) Minimize impact of this rent increase on the single tenat in the 3 bed house yet maintaining financial viability.

The property was purchased for personal use in the far future when I would be working in this city for periods of time throughout the year.

I could disrupt tenant needlessly and issue a termination notice to quit as I'll be using for personal use, allowing for 6 months notice period. 'Move in' and rent out other 2 rooms and get a far greater rental income (plus in cash or through rent a room scheme tax free). However, I am trying to explore all avenues before I proceed, including renting a room in a strangers house myself (paying same amount as the rent I receive) while I work in this city, while the single tenant rents a 3 bed house for less than 100 euro (to him).

Any constructive advice welcome!

People are not leaving constructive comments because it does not seem you are being 100% truthful about the situation.
Is HAP paying you 100 euro total per month?..I guess not. You keep repeating your point that is all he is paying HAP, which is none of your business.
Its technically not for personal use if it is 'maybe to move in myself in far future'. Reality is you are a LL and bought the property knowing such facts.

Your point about moving him out and getting people to pay cash... that is a clear sign of a chancer looking to skip taxes and legal steps.
Be very careful OP, you are entitled to do certain things with your property, but not take blind advantage. People will not react well to that here. That is the constructive advise you get from me.

Comment_below

Graham wrote: »

Still not particularly clear.

Let's deal with the elephant first. Do you need the property for personal use?

Yes, as I will be living there for 8 to 9 months of the year for work.

Comment_below

KTBFFH wrote: »

People are not leaving constructive comments because it does not seem you are being 100% truthful about the situation.
Is HAP paying you 100 euro total per month?..I guess not. You keep repeating your point that is all he is paying HAP, which is none of your business.
Its technically not for personal use if it is 'maybe to move in myself in far future'. Reality is you are a LL and bought the property knowing such facts.

Your point about moving him out and getting people to pay cash... that is a clear sign of a chancer looking to skip taxes and legal steps.
Be very careful OP, you are entitled to do certain things with your property, but not take blind advantage. People will not react well to that here. That is the constructive advise you get from me.

Okay, fair point however just to be clear I made comment about cash/rent a room scheme as rooms can be rented out tax free up to 14k per annum. I am registered with RTB and will continue to be. I made the distinction as other LL can be unscrupulous.

As previously mentioned, I will be using property for personal use as I will be working for 8 to 9 months in this city. I cannot pay for 2 properties at current rental rates while renting a room, therefore hence the rent review and for seeking suggestions.

The contructive criticism of leaving tenant insitu and getting another tenant to make up the shortfall is a very good suggestion for both parties, if tenant agrees. However, if tenant does not agree the tenant will have to make up the shortfall and/or I'll have to issue a valid termination notice as I will be using the property for personal use. Yes, I know the tenant can drag their heels in every approach I take.

KTBFFH

Comment_below wrote: »

Okay, fair point however just to be clear I made comment about cash/rent a room scheme as rooms can be rented out tax free up to 14k per annum. I am registered with RTB and will continue to be. I made the distinction as other LL can be unscrupulous.

As previously mentioned, I using property for personal use as I will be working for 8 to 9 months in this city. I cannot pay for 2 properties at current rental rates while renting another, therefore hence the rent review and for seeking suggestions.

The contructive criticism of leaving tenant insitu and getting another tenant to make up the shortfall is a very good suggestion for both parties, if tenant agrees. However, if tenant does not agree the tenant will have to make up the shortfall and/or I'll have to issue a valid termination notice as I will be using the property for personal use. Yes, I know the tenant can drag their heels in every approach I take.

If the landlord or a family member* intend to live in the property, the tenancy can be ended. In this case, a statutory declaration providing 'specific details' must be included in the notice of termination or given with the notice of termination stating this. (This does not apply to Approved Housing Bodies). These specific details are:

• The intended occupant's identity
• Their relationship to the landlord
• The expected duration of their occupation

Landlords must offer the property back to the tenant that vacated on foot of a valid notice of termination if the property becomes available to rent again. From the 4th June 2019, the time period that a landlord must offer the property back to the tenant has extended from 6 months to 12 months from the expiry of the notice period.

Comment_below

KTBFFH wrote: »

If the landlord or a family member* intend to live in the property, the tenancy can be ended. In this case, a statutory declaration providing 'specific details' must be included in the notice of termination or given with the notice of termination stating this. (This does not apply to Approved Housing Bodies). These specific details are:

• The intended occupant's identity
• Their relationship to the landlord
• The expected duration of their occupation

Landlords must offer the property back to the tenant that vacated on foot of a valid notice of termination if the property becomes available to rent again. From the 4th June 2019, the time period that a landlord must offer the property back to the tenant has extended from 6 months to 12 months from the expiry of the notice period.

I have no issue offering property back to tenant, however the whole point is to avoid the tenant moving out in the 1st place. Where's the tenant supposed to go for 8 to 9 months anyway? The rent a room scheme would make more sense to both parties!

mrslancaster

Comment_below wrote: »

I have no issue offering property back to tenant, however the whole point is to avoid the tenant moving out in the 1st place. Where's the tenant supposed to go for 8 to 9 months anyway? The rent a room scheme would make more sense to both parties!

OP you could give termination notice to current tenant as you need the house for personal use. let tenant move out until the house is freshly painted cleaned etc. They might have family or friends to put them up for a few weeks.

then when you move into the house you could let the tenant move back in as a licensee under rent a room. If they pay 7k pa you could also let the second room for 7k.

tenant will not have to find a new place & you can live in your own house. That could work until such time that you need the entire house for yourself & if you don't mind sharing.

The tenant might not like that arrangement as they've had the p!ace to themselves for years but it might suit as rent would be reasonable & include utilities.

MacDanger

It sounds like you bought a property with a tenant in situ knowing that the rental income was X amount/month. Now you're not happy with X amount/month and you also want to use the property yourself?

Seems like you should have thought this out a bit more before buying OP. Good luck with it though