Problems with purchase of Koleos

TenBeers

I am no car expert so any feedback is appreciated.
I also understand from reading other posts that many believe the DFP filter should be removed in some cases

Bought a Koleos from new 2.5 years ago and has given nothing but trouble.
Was bought as a pre-reg from major Renault dealer in Mayo
Paid a hefty deposit and decided to take the rest on five year repayment plan as warranty and break-down assist were covered for 5 years.

First issue: Get the finance papers which were very illegible and requested a new copy.
Turns out the interest rate for repayment was now 9.4% instead of the agreed 4.9%.
Both parties blamed each other for the "error".

Then the anti-pollution filter lights started to come on(many times) with other warning lights. Car was brought to dealer on all occasions and different reason was given every time it was brought in. My style of driving, these cars aren't made for these roads, I must be doing short journeys (I'm not),etc.

The second last time this happened, I was told that a full "factory reset" would be done and that this issue would not arise again. They put up over 700km while testing the car with no offer of compensation. Car only lasted a week without the lights coming on again. This time they decided to put over 1500km up again without any offer of compensation or extending the warranty.

Here is a list of work that Renault have stated was carried out on the car:
1.07.12.2018 INJECTION COMPUTER
2. 07.12.2018 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE
3. 17.06.2019 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE
4. 17.06.2019 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE
5. 25.09.2019 INJECTION COMPUTER
6. 25.09.2019 INJECTION COMPUTER
7. 05.11.2019 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE
8. 05.11.2019 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE
9.08.02.2020 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE
10. 08.02.2020 LOWER ENGINE, MOVING PARTS, HOUSING, COMPLETE ENGINE
11. 24.02.2020 Service
12. 06.03.2020 EGR (EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION)
13. 07.08.2020 SENSOR, CONTROL UNIT, PROBES
14. 08.10.2020 INJECTION COMPUTER
15.17.10.2020 UNIT and PLATE, CONNECTION, FUSE

This conflicts with the information that I was given from the dealer, which Renault had requested from the dealer and I had to ask for multiple times.



Anyway, finally get the car back from dealer the latest time and the car was in a despicable condition.
Oil or mold on the upholstery (not sure but don't want to attempt to clean incase I make it worse)
Paper cup from a restaurant left spilt all over the middle console (can't post photos)

TenBeers.

statto25

You mentioned DPF and from the detail you posted, it looks like the DPF isn't regenerating. You mention you do long journeys, how long are they?

.42.

I like my Renault.

ek motor

Buy an old Toyota if you dont was any messing about . **** this new car ****e

TenBeers

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Nothing like a good rant

Thanks LIGHTNING really insightful and a great help.

banie01

TenBeers wrote: »

Thanks LIGHTNING really insightful and a great help.

Sorry, I might have missed it.
Did you ask for help or advice in the OP?

TenBeers

statto25 wrote: »

You mentioned DPF and from the detail you posted, it looks like the DPF isn't regenerating. You mention you do long journeys, how long are they?

Yes but how many times does this have to keep happening?
Most journeys are 50km +

PukkaStukka

Have you considered taking it to a different Renault dealer?

Have you taken legal advice?

kirving

I'm not saying you're to blame, but 50km is a short journey for a diesel. That would be 30-40 minutes on N Roads.

That kind of driving is bad, it's high cumulative mileage, but never actually gives the car a chance to heat up and do a full DPF regen cycle.

People think the granny doing 20km per week is bad for a diesel, but in that case, the regular milage is so short that the DPF never actually gets full, before a long journey this done.

statto25

TenBeers wrote: »

Yes but how many times does this have to keep happening?
Most journeys are 50km +

If your journeys are consistently 50km then the DPF should be regenerating. If you're mixing it with a lot of short spins then you're gonna have issues. If you're not getting satisfaction from the dealer then try another main dealer or contact Renault Ireland.

TenBeers

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Have you considered taking it to a different Renault dealer?

Have you taken legal advice?

Have contacted Renault Ireland who are based in the U.K. and don't seem to give a rats ass.
I contacted them over a week ago about the condition the car was returned and they are still waiting for a response from the dealer.

CianRyan

It's not just the distance but the style of driving. regeneration will only happen while as a steady speed, motorway style driving for 30+ minutes.
If you're not doing that, it's down to you.

However, you should be really angry at the state of the car. Inform them you'll be having is professionally cleaned and the invoice will be sent to them. The have a visit to the show room to discuss why you were miss sold a diesel engines vehicle when it is the wrong type of car for your needs.

My diesel Renaults were faultless.
Rather than it being a rant can you elaborate? Was it a 1.5 or a 1.6 litre diesel engine?
The 1.5 litre dCi has a very good reputation.

TenBeers

statto25 wrote: »

If your journeys are consistently 50km then the DPF should be regenerating. If you're mixing it with a lot of short spins then you're gonna have issues. If you're not getting satisfaction from the dealer then try another main dealer or contact Renault Ireland.

Shortest journey which would be rare would be over 5km

jimmycrackcorm

After the debacle that was the electric window regulators in mid 2000's meganes, I'd never go near another Renault. The reason is that Renault never bothered providing a proper fix. Some people got free replacements under pressure from Renault, but as it was a design fault, it kept re-occurring so pointless.

Maybe their newer cars are better quality, but no evidence of their customer focus to redeem themselves.

RandomViewer

Drive it like you stole it, best way to keep DPF at bay

theteal

No need to read anymore than the title. Nope, never.

TenBeers

Deleted User wrote: »

My diesel Renaults were faultless.
Rather than it being a rant can you elaborate? Was it a 1.5 or a 1.6 litre diesel engine?
The 1.5 litre dCi has a very good reputation.

I had a Megane before this and never an issue. 1.5dCi
Koleos is 1.6.

It is just that the customer service is so shockingly bad that I will never buy another Renault.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

After the debacle that was the electric window regulators in mid 2000's meganes, I'd never go near another Renault. The reason is that Renault never bothered providing a proper fix. Some people got free replacements under pressure from Renault, but as it was a design fault, it kept re-occurring so pointless.

Maybe their newer cars are better quality, but no evidence of their customer focus to redeem themselves.

I've had no windows regulator problems on the 3 Renaults I owned in the last decade.

TenBeers

RandomViewer wrote: »

Drive it like you stole it, best way to keep DPF at bay

Believe me, I do. I would not be shy of pressing the accelerator.
I do almost 800km a week and the car gets a good long runout every time.

TenBeers

TenBeers wrote: »

I had a Megane before this and never an issue. 1.5dCi
Koleos is 1.6.

It is just that the customer service is so shockingly bad that I will never buy another Renault.

My Renault dealer was excellent. Maybe that is where your biggest problem is which was hidden by the reliability of the Megane.

Buddy Bubs

kirving wrote: »

I'm not saying you're to blame, but 50km is a short journey for a diesel. That would be 30-40 minutes on N Roads.

That kind of driving is bad, it's high cumulative mileage, but never actually gives the car a chance to heat up and do a full DPF regen cycle.

People think the granny doing 20km per week is bad for a diesel, but in that case, the regular milage is so short that the DPF never actually gets full, before a long journey this done.

One of the looniest posts I've seen. 50kms is too short but 20kms a week is fine. Care to elaborate on the science?

listermint

Had numerous Renault's. Never a problem with them tbh.

Accidentally

06 Clio some years ago. Random electrical faults that Renault never go to the bottom of. Never, ever again.

TenBeers

CianRyan wrote: »

It's not just the distance but the style of driving. regeneration will only happen while as a steady speed, motorway style driving for 30+ minutes.
If you're not doing that, it's down to you.

However, you should be really angry at the state of the car. Inform them you'll be having is professionally cleaned and the invoice will be sent to them. The have a visit to the show room to discuss why you were miss sold a diesel engines vehicle when it is the wrong type of car for your needs.

80-115km/hr for almost an hour doing between 50-70km per journey?
Hope the guards are monitoring these posts ;-\

CianRyan

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

One of the looniest posts I've seen. 50kms is too short but 20kms a week is fine. Care to elaborate on the science?

No, he has a valid point.
A high quantity of bad driving habits will definitely be less harmful than a low quantity of bad habits.

800km a week on N road where the car is accelerating and slowing constantly is much worse for the dpf then popping to the shops once a week.
It is generating more soot and the car is not being driven in the correct manner to regenerate.

The OP needs a petrol, hybrid or electric vehicle. Diesel will not work for him with modern emissions standards.

statto25

TenBeers wrote: »

80-115km/hr for almost an hour doing between 50-70km per journey?
Hope the guards are monitoring these posts ;-\

There is nothing wrong with the advice you were given

CianRyan

TenBeers wrote: »

80-115km/hr for almost an hour doing between 50-70km per journey?
Hope the guards are monitoring these posts ;-\

Unfortunately not, the ECM will not allow the vehicle to regenerate unless the speed is kept at a constant.
A motorway run at 100kph on cruise control, car kept in 5th gear would help if there's lot of soot build up.

J2CVC

I can assure you that if anyone on this thread had to take their car to be fixed as many times as you have (and had it back with dirty seats) they'd not be best pleased.

There's an issue somewhere. Your driving sounds very normal. I have a ton of neighbours who don't drive their diesels 'correctly' without any issue.

It sounds like piss poor form from Renault but they have form for it.

TenBeers

CianRyan wrote: »

Unfortunately not, the ECM will not allow the vehicle to regenerate unless the speed is kept at a constant.
A motorway run at 100kph on cruise control, car kept in 5th gear would help if there's lot of soot build up.

I got from the service manager that 'these cars are not built for our roads'
So why sell them here then?

TenBeers

CianRyan wrote: »

Unfortunately not, the ECM will not allow the vehicle to regenerate unless the speed is kept at a constant.
A motorway run at 100kph on cruise control, car kept in 5th gear would help if there's lot of soot build up.

Unfortunately I'm a good 1 and half hour drive from a good motorway so by the time i get back home the regeneration lights will be back on 😜

TenBeers

TenBeers wrote: »

I got from the service manager that 'these cars are not built for our roads'
So why sell them here then?

Find a different dealer. Service Manager doesn't deserve his job.

TenBeers

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Find a different dealer. Service Manager doesn't deserve his job.

Bad enough to have to do a 150km round trip to dealer but next nearest is double that at least.

PukkaStukka

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Have you considered taking it to a different Renault dealer?

Have you taken legal advice?

As above, have you taken legal advice?

TenBeers

PukkaStukka wrote: »

As above, have you taken legal advice?

Am in the process of doing so.

TenBeers

TenBeers wrote: »

Bad enough to have to do a 150km round trip to dealer but next nearest is double that at least.

Both Nissan and Mercedes Dealers should be familiar with that engine. The cost of 1 hour of diagnostics would be worth it. Also if problem persists get an ODBII reader and see what the car itself is communicating to you.

PukkaStukka

TenBeers wrote: »

Am in the process of doing so.

What I would suggest then is refraining from further comment here so that you don't prejudice your position pending that advice and how it dictates your next steps. On the face of it, you may have a very good case.

kirving

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

One of the looniest posts I've seen. 50kms is too short but 20kms a week is fine. Care to elaborate on the science?

Accumulation of particulate in the filter and is dependant on the driving style and distance.

Someone doing a 50km commute one way is doing 1000km every two weeks. It takes the granny going to the shops a year to accumulate the same mileage (and soot).

About the worst journey you can do in a modern diesel would be 20 mins one way commute on motorway(~400km/pw) or N roads(~250kmpm).

Long enough at motorway speeds to do big milage every week and build up lots of soot, but short enough that a regen cycle never has a chance to complete.

Coupled to that, the engine wouldn't be up to temperature for half the journey which wont help. I know half a dozen people near me with DPF problems due to that kind of commuting around rural galway.

We hear that people "don't do the mileage for diesel" all the time, but it's about journey profile far more than mileage. If you have a diesel and do exceptionally low milage day to day, and even one long trip in the summer, you may never have a problem in a diesel.

TenBeers

Dealer garage must have someone on boards reading motoring forum as just received a call to offer full valet ;-0

Asked them had they got back to Renault with the concerns that Renault had over this and was told that they have had no contact with this from Renault, even though I have been in contact with Renault every couple of days asking for an update.

Once again, either dealership or Renault is blatantly lying and blaming one another.

Another reason to stay away from Renault.

Abcryan123

[Replying to kirving]

I’ve noticed that my DPF regenerates approximately every 250 miles during a mixture of driving. When taking mostly short trips (~10 km one way) it can go down to 150 miles between regenerations.

PukkaStukka

I didn't have time earlier to pen this story but will add it now for potential benefit as elements of it may be relevant to this discussion.

My brother had two Vivaro vans: a 2010 and a 2012. Both had the same Renault M9R diesel engine and DPF's. He had the 2010 van for 3 years till it was written off by an errant truck but thankfully he was uninjured. He replaced it with the 2012 one bought from a main dealer. All went well for about a month and it threw on the warning lights and logged fault codes for DPF ash accumulation. It went back to the dealer who did a regeneration and oil change. Another troublefree few weeks passed till the van repeated the same DPF issues again. The response of the garage was to blame my brother's driving habits but he countered it with the previous van used identically being troublefree, and if this van couldn't hack it then there was something wrong with it or he was missold it.

Cue a few days of heated exchanges with the garage, another regen, and the DPF pressure sensor changed, and I offered to take the van for a bit and monitor it with my scantool (MaxiECU) which had an excellent van specific module. I cleared a few fault codes and drove it and could clearly see ash accumulation rising over time and no evidence of a regeneration happening, despite my driving being favourable for it. A check on the latest fault codes did show something very interesting: there was a code logged for a P0504 Brake Pedal switch correlation. The garage has dismissed that as irrelevant but I looked further at it. The switch has two circuits: one to work the brake lights and the second to tell the ECU if the brakes were being applied. The latter circuit was showing the brakes on when they weren't even though the brake lights were out. Lifting the pedal with my toe resolved it. The ECU was flagging the fault because the vehicle was being driven but seeing both the brake and accelerator being pressed simultaneously and almost constantly. The brake switch was clearly faulty and ash accumulation was now around 70gms which was in the zone for a regen but climbing. The garage swapped that switch after much hassling, and the car did a regen on the way home. The DPF fault never reoccurred since and the van has been perfect in the 2 years since. Obviously if the ECU thinks a brake pedal is constantly being pressed in those circumstances, doing a regen wouldn't be good.

So my conclusions from this and with DPF issues are:

1. Driving habits are not necessarily to blame. Two identical vehicles used the same with one giving trouble is proof of that.

2. Some AND NOT ALL dealers may not have a full grasp of the technology they are selling and supporting. It's very easy to read a scantool but some techies may not fully understand what is giving rise to what they are seeing and allow themselves to be misguided by it. In essence they can see a headline but don't know the story in full.

3. Indies that do DPF work tend to have a better handle on how these systems work and have proper equipment to test everything. This isn't just scan tools, but pressure sensors and scopes. Even if dealers have these, some of their techies may not be au fait, and some may know it inside out. It depends where you go.

I'll add too that I drive. Renault - a 2010 Clio. I've had it 4 years and it's been fine

kirving

That's a really interesting in post, and is a great example of how ridiculously interconnected modern systems are. Could be a plenty of things stopping the regeneration from happening.

FrankC21

TenBeers wrote: »

80-115km/hr for almost an hour doing between 50-70km per journey?
Hope the guards are monitoring these posts ;-\

My 2014 renault fluence 1.5 dci had been serviced recently by my indie mechanic and he asked me if i got the fluence remapped, he's shocked with the power, but the fluence wasn't, it is still 110hp.

I do about 500km per week commuting and every second early sunday morning i blast the fluence upt to 120-160km/hr for 40mins on the motorway that's about 4-5k rpm and that is not me trolling.

Regards with dealership, I bought mine off windsor galway main renault dealer online, got it delivered at drogheda windsor, and few days after driving, it had engine failure warning, the windsor motormall, said it was fuel pump trouble, timing belt and water pump also had to be replaced. I was under warranty so they took care everything it was a big job so I have to leave the car for 1 day and they even lend me a 2019 renault clio. That's my experience with renault so far. 1.5 dci full tank 1000km range, very economical.

TrailerBob

Buy a Toyota... see my thread about how they dealt with an unfixable engine issue on a 5 year old Rav4....









Spoiler: they replaced the whole powerplant free of charge and were great to deal with..

TenBeers

Picture 1

TenBeers

Pic 2

TenBeers

Cant post vid or other pics as too large but hopefully you can see state car was delivered back to me.
Bad enough in normal times, but with Covid-19 I didn't expect car to be in this terrible condition.

kirving

FrankC21 wrote: »

early sunday morning i blast the fluence upt to 120-160km/hr for 40mins on the motorway that's about 4-5k rpm and that is not me trolling.

Despite what I said about longer journies being preferable, that sounds completely unnecessary. A normal speed hours drive every so often should have it more than covered.

ExMachina1000

Easiest thing to do is take it for a motorway blast just to see if the Dpf regenerates. That would put the story to bed.

Otherwise it's a perpetual cycle of them saying one thing and you the other

ratracer

TenBeers wrote: »

Cant post vid or other pics as too large but hopefully you can see state car was delivered back to me.
Bad enough in normal times, but with Covid-19 I didn't expect car to be in this terrible condition.

How or why did you accept the car back in that state from them? Not a hope would I have taken it back if it was left in that condition.

biko

Take it up with the dealer.


Thread reopened after PM discussion, and title and OP updated.