Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055618#Comment_121055618

The WRC has abysmal numbers and the numbers it does have are thanks to stupidly cheap fares, free parking and one of the biggest subventions in the state.

The worst thing that could have happened to IE was the reopening of the WRC. Now they're stuck with trying to make it work which is a lost cause.

Now, you want more spent on it, cool go ahead....once the main line is fully double tracked with all level crossings removed.

Prioritising the WRC over the main line is, well, brain dead

Ireland trains

Was the line built for a lower line speed than promised, or was that just a line from WoT

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055377#Comment_121055377

I'm afraid your priorities are wrong. If a new passing loop is needed anywhere it's between Ennis and Limerick, not Ennis and Gort. Also the official line speed between Ennis and Athenry is 80mph (130 kph), whereas between Ennis and Limerick it;s just 50 mph (80 kph). The main journey time killer is the frequent lower limits for level crossings, farm crossings, etc.

A bit of investment in Ennis-Limerick would benefit many more passengers than work North of Ennis. It would of course improve overall Limerick-Galway times and also service reliability.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043907#Comment_121043907

The density of one-off housing is Donegal is possibly high enough for the county to be deemed urban. 😀

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056066#Comment_121056066

The Gort Ennis passing loop was just an example. Between Ennis and Limerick then. My overall point is still valid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056454#Comment_121056454

Its really not.

If the WRC crowd were serious from the start about providing a good service, they never would have begged to reuse the old alignment

It should have been a new alignment, fully separated, double tracked and fully electric

Instead they aimed for leftovers and got crumbs

A ridiculous lack of ambition that is being carried through to WRC phase 2. A single line track on an 1800's alignment that will result in a shite service and low user numbers from now until the end of time.

Economics101

DaCar: you say "It (the WRC) should have been a new alignment, fully separated, double tracked and fully electric"

Are you serious?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056695#Comment_121056695

That is the fundamental problem with rural rail.

You either invest properly in it and build a service good enough that people might actually use, but then the problem is that it might cost too much to build and not pass a CBA.

Or you build a cheap crap line, that is too slow and thus no one uses anyway.

Neither are really good options. IMO the focus is all wrong. We should be focusing instead on commuter rail into our cities first and foremost and then fixes the issues of the mainlines. Once that is all done, we can revisit doing rural lines properly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056695#Comment_121056695

100%

I would rather spend 3 times the amount and build a top class service that will be a top class service for 200 years instead of spending 1/3rd on a shite service that will always be a shite service

The WRC problem is its a bunch of anoraks who are nostalgic for the return of shite services, well they got them and everyone else got, well, a shite service

Aim higher is my point otherwise invest in the mainline where you'll get more bang per buck

ohographite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056777#Comment_121056777

I fully agree with the last two sentences in your last post, "We should be focusing instead on commuter rail into our cities first and foremost and then fixes the issues of the mainlines. Once that is all done, we can revisit doing rural lines properly." Of course improvements to the railways for which demand is highest should be prioritised over railways for which demand is lower, but I think investment in the lower demand railways should still be made, just not as much as the higher demand ones.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056491#Comment_121056491

Isn't the old line from Athenry to Tuam a straight line, pretty much?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056843#Comment_121056843

The idea that any historic rail alignment can never be a good service is nonsense. Entirely feasible and a better CBA for piecemeal upgrades of existing "archaic" lines than building entire brand new alignments.

If the goal was high speed rail on all lines, then the new alignments would be a requirement. But that is not the goal anywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057255#Comment_121057255

The idea that any historic rail alignment can never be a good service is nonsense. 

Not what I said. The WRC phase 1 proves my point. It was an alignment that should never have been reused

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057219#Comment_121057219

Yay, one straight bit lol. Beyond that its a bag of rubbish with dozens of level crossings and just gets worse the further north you go

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057333#Comment_121057333

There's actually one 7km section north of Tuam, around Miltown, that is quite bendy. Other than that it's pretty much as straight as any other line in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057368#Comment_121057368

with 18 level crossings in that tiny stretch 🤦‍♂️

As I said, its rubbish and should not be reused

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057398#Comment_121057398

Rather dramatic no? Every single road junction between Tuam and Athenry already has an under/over pass. Obviously, all of these would need repair works, including replacements such as the bridge over the N63, which was removed during the M17 works.

Most of the level crossings you mention are farm crossings, many of these illegal and where alternative access to fields exists nearby.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057439#Comment_121057439

Most of the level crossings you mention are farm crossings

Sorry to disappoint but I didn't count those. 18 are legit level crossings in 7km. Don't believe me, look at the imagery

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055664#Comment_121055664

Given how cheap reopening the line was I don't have any problem with subvention. Its not costing a huge amount given how its still facilitating a fair amount of commuters per day (this is absent Oranmore).

I never said that the main line shouldn't be prioritised over WRC? I am simply saying that treating Limerick Galway as some sort of abject failure is just not true. The fact that it still has decent ridership despite its heavy limitations speaks to it as a service.

I'm not arguing for reopening the rest of it either, the alignment north of Athenry is truly quite bad and would need a decent amount of investment to make them viable in commuting times (+ a sensible connection to the airport). However speed improvements along it through level crossing closures and underpasses as part of a greater package of Ireland investing more in rail seems sensible? Closing the line does not seem at all sensible, especially since it is being used as a commuter service for Limerick and Galway.

loco_scolo

You're still being very dramatic.

There are 3 or 4 overpasses, not level crossings. Several of the level crossings are minor roads beside the stations, where trains are traveling very slow anyway. The majority of the crossings are minor roads, accessing a handful of houses or a single farm, where alternative routes for traffic exist very nearby. Most of these could be replaced by foot bridges, or nothing.

The biggest potential cost / issue is 4 level crossings on the N17, however a realignment for a 10km section or simply building overpasses would solve this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057774#Comment_121057774

It's this lack of ambition that has and will continue to doom the WRC. Coupled with downright lies and blinkers of course

Aim higher

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057803#Comment_121057803

Genuinely don't understand your comment?

People keep saying the WRC alignment between Athenry and Claremorris is extremely poor, as it's winding and full of level crossings. This is only partly true and, in my opinion, misleading.

It's not that winding, save for a short section less than 7km, and despite a high number of level crossings, many of these could be closed. Alternative access exists nearby, or the level crossings are at stations where speed wouldn't be an issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057848#Comment_121057848

I'll repeat

It's this lack of ambition that has and will continue to doom the WRC. Coupled with downright lies and blinkers of course

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we leave the Athenry Tuam super-highway to the M18. It is unlikely that a railway will ever compete with it.

Instead can we keep to the Cross-border review.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057873#Comment_121057873

You're just being extremely rude now. What lack of ambition? Are you accusing me of lying? Should I be pushing for a billion euro higher speed, double tracked, fully segregated new alignment?

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057885#Comment_121057885

The All Island Rail Review includes Athenry to Claremorris. You can't deem it off topic, especially by stating, as a fact, your opinion that the railway is unviable.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056843#Comment_121056843

We don't even have that in Dublin though

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057803#Comment_121057803

Lies? Bit drama llama, no? Considering how freely denial of pax numbers is flung around here I reckon Infra is rapidly gaining the wider credibility of C&T

ohographite

There's a lot of talk in response to the rail review about cost benefit analyses. They are not factual, because there is no way to determine whether something is factually worth the money it costs or not. Some people might regard something as value for money, and others may regard the same thing as a waste of money, but neither of them are factually correct.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057913#Comment_121057913

This WRC Athenry to Tuam reinstatement has been done to death on various threads over the years. I did not say it was off topic, just I think it is a rabbit hole of a discussion.

There must be new areas of interest within this report worth discussing, like the service to Navan. Or even the Limerick Junction improvements. Or the Foynes line. Anything but the WRC.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058345#Comment_121058345

It certainly is a rabbit hole, so I appreciate you trying to avoid that!

Just please be mindful, there are legitimate opposing views on WRC phase 2, so if you're pushing people off the topic, don't simultaneously voice a negative view on it.

Should be discuss Mullingar to Portadown instead? 😂🫣🙈