Was Osama Bin Laden a patsy?

The Nal

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Very strange how many of these, 'what the history books don't want you to know' type of facts happen to be brought to mass attention by history books.....I learned both of those things from books. I don't recall learning very much from conspiracy blogs on the Internet, bar how to improve my BS filter.

"You won't read about George Washington owning slaves in history books" (slight paraphrase) is one of the best things I've ever read on the internet.

Dohnjoe

So we've had the "Bin Laden probably didn't die in 2011 because recorded history is all a lie" spiel

Haven't seen anything of substance to suggest Bin Laden was a "patsy" or that he died at any other time (or is still alive)

ShatterAlan

The Nal wrote: »

Yes. This is common knowledge and in all the history books about him. Amzed you don't know this. Really basic common knowledge.

"George Washington is a hard master, very severe, a hard husband, a hard father, a hard governor. From his childhood he always ruled and ruled severely. He was first brought up to govern slaves."

Thomas Jefferson, 1799



It was always studied and argued but now we know its true thanks to DNA analysis which didn't exist until a few decades ago.





Genuinely astonishing how people can be so wrong so often yet keep posting wrong things.

I'm bringing attention to "history" books.....books that paint people and events in a light that scores points or pads a narrative. What part of that escaped you?

Did not Reagan refer to the Mujihadeen as the "Jeffersons of Afghanistan"?

If the rape and torture and enslavement was what he was referring to then he might have a point, except that I think he was trying to allude that they were shaking off the yoke of Soviet intervention the same way that Jefferson and Washington did the same to vanquish the Redcoats.

20 years later, the US has been roundly defeated in Afghanistan. They will leave this year having accomplished nothing. But the history books will run off the print press reading that their 20 year joke of an occupation improved matters. I would guess that most of the US cannon fodder holed up in bases in Afghanistan weren't ene born in 2011 and those that were were still in nappies or short pants.

The US wanted Bin Laden to be handed over for 9/11 and the Taliban said "No problem.....show us the proof". The US said "fcuk you we're going to assault and wreck your country". And now they're going home, in humility and defeat. How easy it would have been to just provide the proof back 20 years ago..

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Translation: "Academia is a conspiracy"



Yes. Where do you think you got that information from?



Yes. Likewise.



Right, what's the difference between a "real" book and a book covering the history of an event or person?

Academia is not a conspiracy. But if you glean that from historically inaccurate accounts in books then that is your wont. Dont accuse me of it.

Guy:Incognito

Did we get a list of the information that shows how all logic points to bin Laden being dead before 2011 yet?

The Nal

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I'm bringing attention to "history" books.....books that paint people and events in a light that scores points or pads a narrative. What part of that escaped you?

The part where you said you won't read about Washingtons slaves in history books. Its been written about for centuries.

The rest of your post is deflective waffle. History will show Afghanistan and Iraq as a spectacular failure. "History books" have already been written about this.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Academia is not a conspiracy. But if you glean that from historically inaccurate accounts in books then that is your wont. Dont accuse me of it.

"Academia is wrong because I say it is" - and then you list a bunch of uninformed examples

Sorting between all your tangents and rants, it appears you believe Bin Laden died in 2001 based on one news report from one news channel that you can't remember.

The same news channel that confirmed he died in 2011. Stunning logic going on there.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"Academia is wrong because I say it is" - and then you list a bunch of uninformed examples

Sorting between all your tangents and rants, it appears you believe Bin Laden died in 2001 based on one news report from one news channel that you can't remember.

The same news channel that confirmed he died in 2011. Stunning logic going on there.

Why would you say that I believe that academia is a conspiracy?

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why would you say that I believe that academia is a conspiracy?

Because you believe that they are presenting false information at the behest of the government.

If this isn't what you're claiming, why else do you believe that all history books are wrong, but your internet research on twitter and youtube is perfectly accurate?

Are you just far better at research and analysing than all academics?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why would you say that I believe that academia is a conspiracy?

Because you claimed that history books are full of lies and hinted via question that authors of them are paid to lie

Again, all of this is the usual clown sideshow of waffle and whataboutery to deflect from the fact that you haven't said anything of substance about the subject

Did Bin Laden die in 2001, when, where, how?

ShatterAlan

The Nal wrote: »

The part where you said you won't read about Washingtons slaves in history books. Its been written about for centuries.

The rest of your post is deflective waffle. History will show Afghanistan and Iraq as a spectacular failure. "History books" have already been written about this.

Will you read about that in school history books or in books that nobody wants to read? You know the big tomes sandwiched up on the top left shelf of B&N?


What history books have you read outside of your Inter Cert? Few, I would imagine.



Was Jefferson's rapes, corruption and cowardice ever codified in a history book? Certainly not one that will ever be used to teach.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Was Jefferson's rapes, corruption and cowardice ever codified in a history book?

There are dozens of biographies and books about Jefferson, list off the ones that you claim don't mention any of the above..

Dohnjoe

And deflections aside, explain how you think Bin Laden "probably died" in 2001. Apparently you require a vast amount of evidence, photos, video, etc to believe he died, so what convinced you he died in 2001?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are dozens of biographies and books about Jefferson, list off the ones that you claim don't mention any of the above..

I know of Jefferson's chequered past. You will not, however, read any of this in history books. Now perhaps you are attempting to nitpick and claim that NO history books cover such episodes and then lay that claim at my door and demand that I cite books that paint the man in a favourable light.



I'll digress. Do school history books or television documentaries mention slavery, sedition, cowardice, subterfuge, rapine and any other quality that would cast a shadow upon the myth?

ShatterAlan

But once again, you are trying to derail and pull the debate to the realms of foggy nettlehood.


You claimed that I said that academia was a conspiracy. I said no such thing. I mentioned falsehoods or omissions. Nothing more.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You claimed that I said that academia was a conspiracy. I said no such thing. I mentioned falsehoods or omissions. Nothing more.

Again yes you did.
You've claimed that these "falsehoods and omissions" occured at the behest of some shadowy patty for some nefarious purpose.
This is a conspiracy.

If that's not what you believe, why do you believe these falsehoods exist?
It surely can't be that you're simply a better historian than people who are trained in the field.
It can't be your lazy Twitter and YouTube watching is somehow more accurate than actual research...

I'm curious how exactly you learned about the "true history" of Jefferson when you're claiming it's not in any book...

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I know of Jefferson's chequered past. You will not, however, read any of this in history books. Now perhaps you are attempting to nitpick and claim that NO history books cover such episodes and then lay that claim at my door and demand that I cite books that paint the man in a favourable light.

Wow. Where do you think your information comes from?

People who study the past maybe, "historians"?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

But once again, you are trying to derail and pull the debate to the realms of foggy nettlehood.


You claimed that I said that academia was a conspiracy. I said no such thing. I mentioned falsehoods or omissions. Nothing more.

You claimed that historians are paid to write lies. Who gives them the money? are they all paid to write the same lie?

All the history books on Jefferson are wrong according to you, that's a conspiracy by academia, they bribed? how does it work?



This is a thread about Bin Laden, here's the question again

Explain how you think Bin Laden "probably died" in 2001. Apparently you require a vast amount of evidence, photos, video, etc to believe he died, so what convinced you he died in 2001?

The Nal

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What history books have you read outside of your Inter Cert? Few, I would imagine.

What a weird (and totally incorrect) assumption.