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HAP and Landlords

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  • 11-04-2021 3:13pm
    #1
    Imaginebaggins
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭


    So , Ive Been approved for hap in Laois , there was a whole situation and I have a thread about it. I am wondering what the best approach is when speaking to a potential landlord, do I be upfront and tell them I work full time but I will still be getting supports or do I view a place if I can get that far and then bring it up. I haven't really been in a position like this before so I would appreciate advice, I am not fussy I could live in a one bedroom and give the kids the bedroom when they are staying over its just actually finding a place that is my problem


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    #2
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    If a LL has a place to rent, they must accept hap. However. To be eligible to be a hap landlord, they must be tax compliant, have good title to a property, have it at a certain standard and other reasons.

    There is a regular issue where a LL says yes, but then hap rejects the LL. This leaves the tenant obliged to pay all the rent. Some LL are not paying tax or just don't want the hassle. Hap pays in arrears for example. So you are at a disadvantage before you start.
    Some people say don't tell the LL until you are in and he cannot refuse the hap, otherwise you can sue him, but if hap refuses the LL, you shot yourself in the foot.
    There is an excellent facebook group with heaps of info. I will look it up and send it on to you.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/169969000326213/permalink/754402111882896/


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    #3
    Imaginebaggins
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Imaginebaggins


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    If a LL has a place to rent, they must accept hap. However. To be eligible to be a hap landlord, they must be tax compliant, have good title to a property, have it at a certain standard and other reasons.

    There is a regular issue where a LL says yes, but then hap rejects the LL. This leaves the tenant obliged to pay all the rent. Some LL are not paying tax or just don't want the hassle. Hap pays in arrears for example. So you are at a disadvantage before you start.
    Some people say don't tell the LL until you are in and he cannot refuse the hap, otherwise you can sue him, but if hap refuses the LL, you shot yourself in the foot.
    There is an excellent facebook group with heaps of info. I will look it up and send it on to you.

    Thanks for this , I'm in a strange situation in the fact that I'm homeless but I work and have kids , maybe not that strange but I was told it's not common , anyway because of that the council are actually paying my deposit and first month's rent for me ( I don't like it but needs must and all that ).
    I can understand why some landlords would be hesitant in accepting it , even if they aren't actually saying that's the reason , I'm coming in with hap and there is probably 70 people also looking that won't need it


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    #4
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    Not strange at all. Read that group. You are not alone.
    I manage 2 houses for someone, don't ask, they are full!, but the info on that group is gold. Lots of ejits though saying don't mention hap, then when in tell them. They are the dopes that disappear when you discover hap will not pay that LL and you are after signing a lease as advised.
    Good luck in your search


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    #5
    Imaginebaggins
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Imaginebaggins


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    Not strange at all. Read that group. You are not alone.
    I manage 2 houses for someone, don't ask, they are full!, but the info on that group is gold. Lots of ejits though saying don't mention hap, then when in tell them. They are the dopes that disappear when you discover hap will not pay that LL and you are after signing a lease as advised.
    Good luck in your search

    Lol , I wouldn't ask anyway , and no I wasnt not going to Tell them at all i was just wondering should I let them meet me first rather than email and when I bring up hap they hesitate or let them see I'm normal and then bring it up face to face.


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    #6
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Imaginebaggins wrote: »
    Lol , I wouldn't ask anyway , and no I wasnt not going to Tell them at all i was just wondering should I let them meet me first rather than email and when I bring up hap they hesitate or let them see I'm normal and then bring it up face to face.

    Be upfront and straight. To the LLs that accept it, it won't matter. In fact some LLs actively seek it. Highlight the fulltime job and sense of responsibility, previous LL references etc, anything that distinguishes you from the layabouts.

    But most every LL that won't accept HAP will still not accept it. Being upfront saves you time and getting your hopes up. (I not getting into the morals and legalities)

    Precovid, to stop time wasting I would ask the applicant tenant their total household income (to include children's allowance and supplementary social payments etc) before offering a viewing, making it clear they will have to prove it eventually before getting the keys.

    For those that obviously require helps with the rent such as HAP and don't mention it, don't get a viewing. They've displayed their duplicity and lost my trust by not mentioning it. What else are they trying to hide?

    Covid stops a LL from showing a house until a lease is signed, so it's even harder to hide the fact that HAP or similar would be needed.


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    #7
    Imaginebaggins
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Imaginebaggins


    10pennymixup wrote: »
    Be upfront and straight. To the LLs that accept it, it won't matter. In fact some LLs actively seek it. Highlight the fulltime job and sense of responsibility, previous LL references etc, anything that distinguishes you from the layabouts.

    But most every LL that won't accept HAP will still not accept it. Being upfront saves you time and getting your hopes up. (I not getting into the morals and legalities)

    Precovid, to stop time wasting I would ask the applicant tenant their total household income (to include children's allowance and supplementary social payments etc) before offering a viewing, making it clear they will have to prove it eventually before getting the keys.

    For those that obviously require helps with the rent such as HAP and don't mention it, don't get a viewing. They've displayed their duplicity and lost my trust by not mentioning it. What else are they trying to hide?

    Covid stops a LL from showing a house until a lease is signed, so it's even harder to hide the fact that HAP or similar would be needed.

    Thanks for this , it's good to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak , I am hitting a brick wall here to be honest anyway , 15 houses in the county on daft and I've emailed or called all of them and either got no response or its already gone , I'm not too fussy to move out of county but I'd like if possible to be close to kids and work as I can't drive(medical issue not inability) and working evenings and in a place with little to no public transport I am kind of stuck here. Can you recommend anywhere other than daft I might find something.


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    #8
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Imaginebaggins wrote: »
    Thanks for this , it's good to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak , I am hitting a brick wall here to be honest anyway , 15 houses in the county on daft and I've emailed or called all of them and either got no response or its already gone , I'm not too fussy to move out of county but I'd like if possible to be close to kids and work as I can't drive(medical issue not inability) and working evenings and in a place with little to no public transport I am kind of stuck here. Can you recommend anywhere other than daft I might find something.

    Some facebook pages can be useful but other than Daft, no.


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    #9
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    The two houses I manage are both HAP. There are LL out there that are happy enough to accept it so do not be disheartened.

    When I was interviewing tenants, I put an ad on Daft. There was no way to reply to everyone, I was bombarded. I asked for basic info like references, family makeup, method of payment, etc etc. and went from there. Limited viewing was arranged. Get dressed up. Make an impression if you get a face to face.

    I was looking for a longterm candidate, HAP was fine and should mean the tenant will not struggle to pay up and cause grief, and the family makeup has to be suitable for the property. i.e. 4 bed house not suitable or acceptable for a couple and one child for example. Any agent or LL has to be careful as that last line could be used for discrimination due to a couple of reasons - stupid but true!
    Hassle like a struggling tenant means more work for me and the LL getting peed off. Do not forget though, while the guy I represent is happy enough with HAP, an agent only does as they are told. If a LL tells an agent no, then that means no. The agent cannot tell you that as it could cause a legal case. I see comments online about this agent or that agent doesn't accept HAP. Rubbish, he does as he is told, he has no say.

    Keep trying, point out you are employed full time, get references if you can, and whatever you do, make sure you pay the rent on time. I have my tenants told, if there is an issue, call me, do not have a LL calling me! I have a tenant with massive entitlement. "I am entitled to....." he lost all goodwill and now gets exactly what he is entitled to. He expected everything to be handed to him, not sure of his history but someone told him he could get everything given to him, then when the council moved him to HAP, his wacko demands were ignored.
    "Don't worry, the council with give me one", I was not long shutting him up.

    He gets what is correct, no more, no less. Attitude plays a big part. I wont even talk to him now. He has to email me. So now I have a full record of what he says and wont allow him to twist our conversations.

    A different tenant I know is polite, humble and fair and square. They can call me and I sort out things over the phone.

    Best of luck !


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    #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    If a LL has a place to rent, they must accept hap.
    Incorrect. The LL can't deny a tenant on HAP, for the reason of HAP. So if the OP rings and asks, the LL will say that they accept HAP, as the law says that they must say this. But the LL doesn't have to accept the HAP, once they don't say that they're not accepting the tenant because of HAP. The new law got someone votes.

    The law will only waste peoples time, as everyone would be labelled as "accepting HAP", when they actually won't.


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    #11
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    the_syco wrote: »
    Incorrect. The LL can't deny a tenant on HAP, for the reason of HAP. So if the OP rings and asks, the LL will say that they accept HAP, as the law says that they must say this. But the LL doesn't have to accept the HAP, once they don't say that they're not accepting the tenant because of HAP. The new law got someone votes.

    The law will only waste peoples time, as everyone would be labelled as "accepting HAP", when they actually won't.
    That is what I meant to say.....
    They have to accept it. If they say they dont, it can cause a legal issue. However, if they say they cannot, for a verifiable reason, then they should be ok.


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    #12
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    That is what I meant to say.....
    They have to accept it. If they say they dont, it can cause a legal issue. However, if they say they cannot, for a verifiable reason, then they should be ok.

    A landlord doesn't need to provide any reason for rejecting a tenant. Providing a reason is not smart.


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    #13
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    Manion wrote: »
    A landlord doesn't need to provide any reason for rejecting a tenant. Providing a reason is not smart.
    True, but if the LL says the house does not have legal papers in order, that is it, end of. You would be some ejit saying "I just dont want to"


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    #14
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    True, but if the LL says the house does not have legal papers in order, that is it, end of. You would be some ejit saying "I just don't want to"

    Giving any reasons as a landlord is less advantageous than giving no reason. The courteous thing to do is give a reason, however, this is a business transaction.


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    #15
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    HAP minimises the risk to the landlord. A tenant on HAP is surely far less likely to fall into rent arrears if they lose their job as they have somewhat of a safety net regarding their rent payment.
    I would have thought landlord's would be delighted to let to HAP tenants and would be bending over backwards to let only to them.


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    #16
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Saudades wrote: »
    HAP minimises the risk to the landlord. A tenant on HAP is surely far less likely to fall into rent arrears if they lose their job as they have somewhat of a safety net regarding their rent payment.
    If the tenant lose their job, and can't keep paying their percentage to the CC, the CC stops paying the LL. The LL will not be told why they didn't get their rent, as only the tenant can contact the CC. The tenant can play games if they want, and tell the LL that the CC were at fault, and will pay double next month. The LL will not be able to verify this.


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    #17
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Saudades wrote: »
    HAP minimises the risk to the landlord. A tenant on HAP is surely far less likely to fall into rent arrears if they lose their job as they have somewhat of a safety net regarding their rent payment.
    I would have thought landlord's would be delighted to let to HAP tenants and would be bending over backwards to let only to them.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...........

    Some LL's have been burned too much, too many times before.


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    #18
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Imaginebaggins wrote: »
    I am not fussy I could live in a one bedroom and give the kids the bedroom when they are staying over

    Be careful with this; one of the valid reasons that a landlord can terminate a Part 4 tenancy legally is if the property is no longer suited to your needs. If you have partial custody of your children and they stay with you sometimes and you don't have a separate bedroom for them, that would make the property overcrowded. If the landlord is ever looking for an excuse to get rid of you (because of HAP or for any other reason), that would provide them with a perfect one.


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