National Hurling League 2021 discussion

breezy1985

threeball wrote: »

No that stuff is a cowards game. If you're a man go toe to toe. Sly digs are for players who would pish themselves if anyone actually gave it back. Hegarty is a prime example.
You probably enjoyed Roy Keane breaking Haalands leg that time. A real hard man.

You honestly saying those Limerick players wouldnt give it back or go toe to toe. Byrnes gave it back today and I was a monster for saying fair play to him.


Serious double standards

formerlyET

PeggyShippen wrote: »

He speaks for loads of people outside of Limerick. I watched it with 4 claremen and they l agree with Kiely

Sure, Clare is in Limerick.

breezy1985

formerlyET wrote: »

And when limerick were beaten the other team was diving and simulating and all the rules are changed against us, no one else, and everything has changed and Galway are cheating.

Ive said it from the start all the teams have an element of fouling, cheating and yes having managers who try push a certain narrative. I dont think Galway simulate more than any other team and I dont ever listen to players or managers post match because you never get the full truth out of any of them

Cool Hand Lucy

costacorta wrote: »

You must never have watched John Fenton on a hurling pitch ?

Still remember THAT goal against Limerick

PeggyShippen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is probably the core issue for me. I've no issue with "timber merchants", they were always part and parcel of the game for me, probably because Limerick have had more of them than most. I've no interest in watching an anodyne game with no bite, even if it's all singing, all dancing, skills.

Likewise, premiership football is way less interesting to me these days even though the skill level is higher, there's no bite left. A player like Roy Keane would be whistled off the park these days.

I can see other's have a different point of view on it, it's just a preference, I guess.

100% agree.. Thats why Limerick traditionally love the combat games of hurling and rugby. They were honest, aggressive and appealed to the people. My favourite players were always the hard men ...Iv no interest in what hurling becoming.. I can see the talent in the Cork game but for me you gotta be able to 'plant' a guy in a game

formerlyET

PeggyShippen wrote: »

100% agree.. Thats why Limerick traditionally love the combat games of hurling and rugby. They were honest, aggressive and appealed to the people. My favourite players were always the hard men ...Iv no interest in what hurling becoming.. I can see the talent in the Cork game but for me you gotta be able to 'plant' a guy in a game

Traditionally, not a whole pile of planting goes on in the league.

You'll get your Mike Houlihan stuff yet.

FintanMcluskey

formerlyET wrote: »

Traditionally, not a whole pile of planting goes on in the league.

You'll get your Mike Houlihan stuff yet.

100%

The league is always ****e

June and July is when the hurling is played

farmerval

There's hardly anything new in Ref's being over zealous in the early rounds of the league.
It normally looks like they've had a few seminars over the winter and looked at issues from last years championship and try to remedy these. Hand passing without a clear striking motion, steps etc.
One of the biggest contributors to the multitude or frees is the quantity of players around the man in possession.
Limerick as an example and Kilkenny and Galway all pull half forwards back under opposition puck outs and completely crowd their half backline space, trying to create a numbers mismatch. A half forward that wins the ball has three or four players all pulling, dragging the free hand jabbing etc. He's getting tackled/hit from several directions.
In the Tipp Limerick game last weekend when Gearoid Hegarty and Cian Lynch came on I thought that was the biggest difference, Hegarty's incredible athleticism had him back in the half back line, linking play going forward and also popping up on the opposite wing for a score.
I thought it was Limerick today that tried to push the physical button a bit but got nowhere for it.
It was lovely to see a couple of full forwards grabbing long ball today and turning and going with the ball. Great antidote to tippy tappy hurling.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

No that stuff is a cowards game. If you're a man go toe to toe. Sly digs are for players who would pish themselves if anyone actually gave it back. Hegarty is a prime example.
You probably enjoyed Roy Keane breaking Haalands leg that time. A real hard man.

Hegarty got a hurley to the head today, no one is going on about it. It's give and take. Likewise, Kyle Hayes got a loose hurley to the head in the 63 or 64th minute of last years final, no one is bringing that up either. It happens.

Grats

So, what is the solution to reducing the free count. One solution might be getting the players to foul less, or to put it more correctly - get coaches to coach tackling correctly. Another solution, get the refs to leave the whistle in the dressing room and let the players beat the lard out of each other!

John Kiely would obviously prefer less of the whistle as his team always out-fouls the opposition. It's a no brainer for him but can't be tolerated.

JJs Left Hand

This thread is box office to be fair. Some serious rage posting.

threeball

Deleted User wrote: »

Hegarty got a hurley to the head today, no one is going on about it. It's give and take. Likewise, Kyle Hayes got a loose hurley to the head in the 63 or 64th minute of last years final, no one is bringing that up either. It happens.

Yes while jumping for a ball. No intent but still a yellow. Hegarty went on about it enough at the time. Didn't like it one bit but loves slapping lads across the back or jabbing them in the balls with the hurl. And 100% intentionally to boot.

formerlyET

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

This thread is box office to be fair. Some serious rage posting.

Some hilarious stuff too.

PeggyShippen

threeball wrote: »

Yes while jumping for a ball. No intent but still a yellow. Hegarty went on about it enough at the time. Didn't like it one bit but loves slapping lads across the back or jabbing them in the balls with the hurl. And 100% intentionally to boot.

100% intentionally.?!'# well we got a mind reader here in Threeball. He knows the Galway guy had no intent but Hegarty always does..

crossman47

zetecescort wrote: »

Was Tim O'Mahoney booked last night for an overhead pull or was there something else in it? Did he hit the Tipp player?

I wondered that too. The overhead pull was one of the great skills but refs don't like it. They give a free if the opponent puts his hand up. In the old days he protected it or ran the risk of a good belt.

Davys Fits

Im disappointed with Jackie Tyrell and his 100% agreement with John Kiely. I understand Kiely's frustration as a manager but for a pundit to agree 100% with him means he actually doesn't see anything whatsoever wrong with the tackle in hurling. I wish Cantwell would ask him what exactly is a foul and whats not a foul these days and to what extent a player can pull another players hand or shoulder in the name of contact sport?

Mehapoy

Davys Fits wrote: »

Im disappointed with Jackie Tyrell and his 100% agreement with John Kiely. I understand Kiely's frustration as a manager but for a pundit to agree 100% with him means he actually doesn't see anything whatsoever wrong with the tackle in hurling. I wish Cantwell would ask him what exactly is a foul and whats not a foul these days and to what extent a player can pull another players hand or shoulder in the name of contact sport?

Can anyone at the moment confidently say what's a foul and what's not a foul? Thought Limerick were being penalised anytime the Hurley was put up in the tackle and contact with the opponent's hurley was made, thought some of the frees were 'soft' frees ie.man coming out with the ball impeded but no obvious foul made and ref blows up straight away for a free...it seems like whoever is directing the refs are specifically looking at the 'limerick' way of tackling and making changes without any consultation or warnings

FoFo1254122

Galway yesterday looked like they have really bulked up and matched limericks hard work ethic.

Kielys comments afterwards were well rehearsed - the fact is limerick foul more then any other team, its a tactic of theirs, and like the great kilkenny they more often then not get away with it.
holding of the arm briefly but timely, the flick of the hurley to make space or slow the play down, the tap at the back of the helmet to win the aerial battle. all done very quick but all very illegal.
But against tipp and galway the refs just called limerick for their constant fouling.
I have said it many times but either put the whistle away and only blow for dangerous or cynical play or ref it fairly.

Kiely made one serious error in his comments when he called Galway for simulation and questioned their manliness.
Bad call by kiely.

Glenomra

FoFo1254122 wrote: »

Galway yesterday looked like they have really bulked up and matched limericks hard work ethic.

Kielys comments afterwards were well rehearsed - the fact is limerick foul more then any other team, its a tactic of theirs, and like the great kilkenny they more often then not get away with it.
holding of the arm briefly but timely, the flick of the hurley to make space or slow the play down, the tap at the back of the helmet to win the aerial battle. all done very quick but all very illegal.
But against tipp and galway the refs just called limerick for their constant fouling.
I have said it many times but either put the whistle away and only blow for dangerous or cynical play or ref it fairly.

Kiely made one serious error in his comments when he called Galway for simulation and questioned their manliness.
Bad call by kiely.

No, he was spot on. Even a Galway relation watching the game with me was embarrassed at Galway's continual diving. It had to be called out for the sake of hurling.

formerlyET

Glenomra wrote: »

No, he was spot on. Even a Galway relation watching the game with me was embarrassed at Galway's continual diving. It had to be called out for the sake of hurling.

Yeah, a few border collies who watched it with me were shocked too. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: They're worried about hurling too. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Rosita

formerlyET wrote: »

Yeah, a few border collies who watched it me were shocked too. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: They're worried about hurling too. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

They, presumably, are the "dogs in the street"?

cosatron

can someone please point out a moment where a galway lad dived without any prior contact. Im at a loss remember any simulation, does Kiely expect galway lads to continue on hurling when they get a flick on the helmet or a high tackle which are against the rules.

FoFo1254122

Glenomra wrote: »

No, he was spot on. Even a Galway relation watching the game with me was embarrassed at Galway's continual diving. It had to be called out for the sake of hurling.

So for the sake of hurling teams like limerick who foul constantly should be allowed to continue to do with no penalties?
This is same entitlement that makes Kilkenny people think Richie Hogan should not have been sent off in 2019 final.
Truly bizarre logic.

slegs

cosatron wrote: »

can someone please point out a moment where a galway lad dived without any prior contact. Im at a loss remember any simulation, does Kiely expect galway lads to continue on hurling when they get a flick on the helmet or a high tackle which are against the rules.

There were at least three occasions where a Limerick player just stood their ground with no movement forward and the Galway player ran into them and went down in a heap.

In the old days this was not a free but apparently in 2021 it is.

breezy1985

Mehapoy wrote: »

Can anyone at the moment confidently say what's a foul and what's not a foul? Thought Limerick were being penalised anytime the Hurley was put up in the tackle and contact with the opponent's hurley was made, thought some of the frees were 'soft' frees ie.man coming out with the ball impeded but no obvious foul made and ref blows up straight away for a free...it seems like whoever is directing the refs are specifically looking at the 'limerick' way of tackling and making changes without any consultation or warnings

Man coming out with the ball into a player is charging and should be a free to the defender but it's never given anymore

tranquilo

The bitterness towards Limerick is comical I must say. It's obvious that their success these past few years has really touched a nerve with some people. From what I've been reading on here and in other forums it's very evident. I guess it's true that success brings with it lots of envy. As a Wexford man I'm happy for them anyway, some of the hurling I've witnessed from them over the last few years has been wonderful to watch. I used to enjoy reading the hurling forums but they're just full of sour and bitter opposition fans now unfortunately, presumably from counties that used to beat Limerick handily in the past and are finding it hard to come to terms with how they've been these past few years.

On another note, fair play to Galway yesterday. A very dominant performance it must be said. I'm really looking forward to the summer of hurling ahead

cosatron

Mehapoy wrote: »

Can anyone at the moment confidently say what's a foul and what's not a foul? Thought Limerick were being penalised anytime the Hurley was put up in the tackle and contact with the opponent's hurley was made, thought some of the frees were 'soft' frees ie.man coming out with the ball impeded but no obvious foul made and ref blows up straight away for a free...it seems like whoever is directing the refs are specifically looking at the 'limerick' way of tackling and making changes without any consultation or warnings

If your making an effort to play the ball it nots a foul. What you have at the moment is allot of fouling by all teams, with the tugging of the arm, holding an opponents hurl, flicking an opponents hurl with your hurl, hurl in around the shoulder area, arm in around the shoulder area. What Kiely did last night was change the narrative to focus on the teams being fouled and it worked a treat as the focus is not on limericks persistent fouling today

tanko

Did Kiely ever have a problem with the rules in a post match interview after Limerick had won the game?

breezy1985

tanko wrote: »

Did Kiely ever have a problem with the rules in a post match interview after Limerick had won the game?

Probably not. Same as every other manager in the history of sport.

I'm not sure why someone who has ever watched sport would bother making such a pointless comment

limerickabroad

tranquilo wrote: »

The bitterness towards Limerick is comical I must say. It's obvious that their success these past few years has really touched a nerve with some people. From what I've been reading on here and in other forums it's very evident. I guess it's true that success brings with it lots of envy. As a Wexford man I'm happy for them anyway, some of the hurling I've witnessed from them over the last few years has been wonderful to watch. I used to enjoy reading the hurling forums but they're just full of sour and bitter opposition fans now unfortunately, presumably from counties that used to beat Limerick handily in the past and are finding it hard to come to terms with how they've been these past few years.

On another note, fair play to Galway yesterday. A very dominant performance it must be said. I'm really looking forward to the summer of hurling ahead

Well said, and you are exactly right. It's very interesting to me that the current bitterness towards Limerick (from a few) has strong echoes of what happened to two other non-traditional teams who made the breakthrough - Galway in the late 1980s, and Clare in the mid-90s. In both cases, they were criticized for their tactics (Galway's third midfielder and handpassing game) and their 'intensity'; I remember people saying in the 1990s that Loughnane and Clare had gone way too far, were 'timber merchants', etc. All BS, of course.

Interestingly, in a time before social media, rumours also swept the country about the off-field behaviour of some of those hurlers too - disgraceful rumours, as Anthony Daly talked about in his book. In the end, it all culminated in the Keady affair, and a diabolical refereeing display in the 1989 semi-final against Galway, and the 1998 Munster final replay and selective justice being applied to Colin Lynch . . .

I think that (a few) fans from the big three hurling counties just plain don't like other counties having any sustained success - simple as that. One All-Ireland here or there is great, but don't be getting notions above your station, lads . . .

slegs

tranquilo wrote: »

The bitterness towards Limerick is comical I must say. It's obvious that their success these past few years has really touched a nerve with some people. From what I've been reading on here and in other forums it's very evident. I guess it's true that success brings with it lots of envy. As a Wexford man I'm happy for them anyway, some of the hurling I've witnessed from them over the last few years has been wonderful to watch. I used to enjoy reading the hurling forums but they're just full of sour and bitter opposition fans now unfortunately, presumably from counties that used to beat Limerick handily in the past and are finding it hard to come to terms with how they've been these past few years.

On another note, fair play to Galway yesterday. A very dominant performance it must be said. I'm really looking forward to the summer of hurling ahead

Yes, its an eye opener to go back over this thread and check the home counties of the noisiest anti-Limerick posters.

BENDYBINN

limerickabroad wrote: »

Well said, and you are exactly right. It's very interesting to me that the current bitterness towards Limerick (from a few) has strong echoes of what happened to two other non-traditional teams who made the breakthrough - Galway in the late 1980s, and Clare in the mid-90s. In both cases, they were criticized for their tactics (Galway's third midfielder and handpassing game) and their 'intensity'; I remember people saying in the 1990s that Loughnane and Clare had gone way too far, were 'timber merchants', etc. All BS, of course.

Interestingly, in a time before social media, rumours also swept the country about the off-field behaviour of some of those hurlers too - disgraceful rumours, as Anthony Daly talked about in his book. In the end, it all culminated in the Keady affair, and a diabolical refereeing display in the 1989 semi-final against Galway, and the 1998 Munster final replay and selective justice being applied to Colin Lynch . . .

I think that (a few) fans from the big three hurling counties just plain don't like other counties having any sustained success - simple as that. One All-Ireland here or there is great, but don't be getting notions above your station, lads . . .

A lot true in what you’re sayin.....just that Kiely accusingly the opposition of simulation is petty and nasty........almost child like

Davys Fits

I hear a lot of sympathy lately coming Clares way from Limerick Fans about how were treated in the late 90's. I dont remember any sympathy from them at the time though.

breezy1985

limerickabroad wrote: »

Well said, and you are exactly right. It's very interesting to me that the current bitterness towards Limerick (from a few) has strong echoes of what happened to two other non-traditional teams who made the breakthrough - Galway in the late 1980s, and Clare in the mid-90s. In both cases, they were criticized for their tactics (Galway's third midfielder and handpassing game) and their 'intensity'; I remember people saying in the 1990s that Loughnane and Clare had gone way too far, were 'timber merchants', etc. All BS, of course.

Interestingly, in a time before social media, rumours also swept the country about the off-field behaviour of some of those hurlers too - disgraceful rumours, as Anthony Daly talked about in his book. In the end, it all culminated in the Keady affair, and a diabolical refereeing display in the 1989 semi-final against Galway, and the 1998 Munster final replay and selective justice being applied to Colin Lynch . . .

I think that (a few) fans from the big three hurling counties just plain don't like other counties having any sustained success - simple as that. One All-Ireland here or there is great, but don't be getting notions above your station, lads . . .

Anthony Daly was warning TJ Ryan about it on the podcast on day last year. Win one and they are all about you but go win 2 and you are getting above your station

tranquilo

It would be nice to have a discussion about the summer ahead anyway and talk about the hurling. Not rules or fouling or this and that, but what different people predict for the championship. It's early days of course but Galway yesterday looked brilliant. The bookies have Limerick as favourites for the All Ireland but I could see Galway winning it, and of course you couldn't write off Kilkenny and Tipp. I'd love for my own county to be there abouts but can't see it happening this year. 2019 was our best chance when we won Leinster final. Who know though! Antrim fair play to them have improved an awful lot. Beating Clare was some win for them and losing by 7 points to Kilkenny in Nowlan Park isn't too bad at all.

I predict a Galway vs Limerick final with Galway coming out on top

limerickabroad

Davys Fits wrote: »

I hear a lot of sympathy lately coming Clares way from Limerick Fans about how were treated in the late 90's. I dont remember any sympathy from them at the time though.

Username checks out anyway!

breezy1985

tranquilo wrote: »

It would be nice to have a discussion about the summer ahead anyway and talk about the hurling. Not rules or fouling or this and that, but what different people predict for the championship. It's early days of course but Galway yesterday looked brilliant. The bookies have Limerick as favourites for the All Ireland but I could see Galway winning it, and of course you couldn't write off Kilkenny and Tipp. I'd love for my own county to be there abouts but can't see it happening this year. 2019 was our best chance when we won Leinster final. Who know though! Antrim fair play to them have improved an awful lot. Beating Clare was some win for them and losing by 7 points to Kilkenny in Nowlan Park isn't too bad at all.

I predict a Galway vs Limerick final with Galway coming out on top

I would happily write of Kilkenny. They are good enough to beat any team on their day but to be able to beat enough of them to win I would give them very little chance.
Galway are a great side and look to have shaken off whatever it was that was wrong with them the last few years.
I really like Cork I think they have a good shot if the form holds and they get a run behind them.
Opposite for Limerick I really hope the league is just shadow boxing and the forwards click come championship. If they do it it will be a backdoor job as I can't see them go unbeaten

formerlyET

limerickabroad wrote: »

Well said, and you are exactly right. It's very interesting to me that the current bitterness towards Limerick (from a few) has strong echoes of what happened to two other non-traditional teams who made the breakthrough - Galway in the late 1980s, and Clare in the mid-90s. In both cases, they were criticized for their tactics (Galway's third midfielder and handpassing game) and their 'intensity'; I remember people saying in the 1990s that Loughnane and Clare had gone way too far, were 'timber merchants', etc. All BS, of course.

Interestingly, in a time before social media, rumours also swept the country about the off-field behaviour of some of those hurlers too - disgraceful rumours, as Anthony Daly talked about in his book. In the end, it all culminated in the Keady affair, and a diabolical refereeing display in the 1989 semi-final against Galway, and the 1998 Munster final replay and selective justice being applied to Colin Lynch . . .

I think that (a few) fans from the big three hurling counties just plain don't like other counties having any sustained success - simple as that. One All-Ireland here or there is great, but don't be getting notions above your station, lads . . .

Sport is built on bitterness, on anonymous forums.

Do you think traditional counties don't get bitterness or rumours or accused of being hatchet men or anything else? And within their own county by their own supporters? Are you out of your mind? It's all par for the course.

You could win something but you didn't really win it well enough. Didn't play well.

Don't be whinging about winning something and being the focus and getting undue attention. It's all part of it. Deal with it or get off the perch.

If you think the supporters of counties, like Kerry, Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny, Mayo or Dublin, don't treat their team to the same scrutiny as other teams, their own supporters savage their own counties, just as they scrutinise other counties, and if you think it's not the case, you don't know this sport.

Welcome to the real world. Tis tough at the top. Heavy lies the crown - yada yada yada.

breezy1985

formerlyET wrote: »

Sport is built on bitterness, on anonymous forums.

Do you think traditional counties don't get bitterness or rumours or accused of being hatchet men or anything else? And within their own county by their own supporters? Are you out of your mind? It's all par for the course.

You could win something but you didn't really win it well enough. Didn't play well.

Don't be whinging about winning something and being the focus and getting undue attention. It's all part of it. Deal with it or get off the perch.

If you think the supporters of counties, like Kerry, Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny, Mayo or Dublin, don't treat their team to the same scrutiny as other teams, their own supporters savage their own counties, just as they scrutinise other counties, and if you think it's not the case, you don't know this sport.

Welcome to the real world. Tis tough at the top. Heavy lies the crown - yada yada yada.

Why be bitter at all though. You seem to excuse angry bitterness as part of the game but why ?

I love to have a good slag off our neighbours but I'm never bitter about it the way some barstool/forum grumps get. There is a huge difference between a slag and being blinded by hatred the way some are.

I ain't whinging about the extra attention winners get I am reveling in the moaning and tears as I said last night. You know you are the best when people are twisting themselves in knots to find fault

threeball

cosatron wrote: »

can someone please point out a moment where a galway lad dived without any prior contact. Im at a loss remember any simulation, does Kiely expect galway lads to continue on hurling when they get a flick on the helmet or a high tackle which are against the rules.

Canning kept hurling despite 3 of them clattering his arm and shoulder when he made that run up the left wing. Not a single hurl got within a foot of the ball. The lad a yard behind actually him him on the hip a good 3 to 4ft from where the ball was. Apparently Kiely thinks thats a tackle.

formerlyET

breezy1985 wrote: »

Why be bitter at all though. You seem to excuse angry bitterness as part of the game but why ?

I love to have a good slag off our neighbours but I'm never bitter about it the way some barstool/forum grumps get. There is a huge difference between a slag and being blinded by hatred the way some are.

I ain't whinging about the extra attention winners get I am reveling in the moaning and tears as I said last night. You know you are the best when people are twisting themselves in knots to find fault

I'm not condoning anything.

But the reality of it is another thing.

I said, on online forums.

I don't excuse anything. You can't stop people who have a chance to be bitter and anonymous from indulging their whims.

I'm not saying anyone whines about the extra attention winners get. It's just a reality they do get it. That Limerick lads are surprised by this or think that they're any holier or less bitter than any other county is not realistic.

Limerick and their supporters are making themselves out to be victims. It ain't so. Everyone who wins, gets extra attention in many forms. Both the good and bad. That's just the way it is.

breezy1985

formerlyET wrote: »

I'm not condoning anything.

But the reality of it is another thing.

I said, on online forums.

I don't excuse anything. You can't stop people who have a chance to be bitter and anonymous from indulging their whims.

I'm not saying anyone whines about the extra attention winners get. It's just a reality they do get it. That Limerick lads are surprised by this or think that they're any holier or less bitter than any other county is not realistic.

Limerick and their supporters are making themselves out to be victims. It ain't so. Everyone who wins, gets extra attention in many forms. Both the good and bad. That's just the way it is.

I love how you talk like you are not the chief instigator of all the bitterness on here. Like it is some force of nature that just happens.

And yes you did say people were whining about the extra attention winners get. You pretty much said exactly that

formerlyET

breezy1985 wrote: »

I love how you talk like you are not the chief instigator of all the bitterness on here. Like it is some force of nature that just happens.

And yes you did say people were whining about the extra attention winners get. You pretty much said exactly that

What bitterness?

slegs

formerlyET wrote: »

What bitterness?

Your own words from three posts ago

"Sport is built on bitterness, on anonymous forums."

Doubling back on your own trail of nonsense at this stage...

Grats

limerickabroad wrote: »

Well said, and you are exactly right. It's very interesting to me that the current bitterness towards Limerick (from a few) has strong echoes of what happened to two other non-traditional teams who made the breakthrough - Galway in the late 1980s, and Clare in the mid-90s. In both cases, they were criticized for their tactics (Galway's third midfielder and handpassing game) and their 'intensity'; I remember people saying in the 1990s that Loughnane and Clare had gone way too far, were 'timber merchants', etc. All BS, of course.

Interestingly, in a time before social media, rumours also swept the country about the off-field behaviour of some of those hurlers too - disgraceful rumours, as Anthony Daly talked about in his book. In the end, it all culminated in the Keady affair, and a diabolical refereeing display in the 1989 semi-final against Galway, and the 1998 Munster final replay and selective justice being applied to Colin Lynch . . .

I think that (a few) fans from the big three hurling counties just plain don't like other counties having any sustained success - simple as that. One All-Ireland here or there is great, but don't be getting notions above your station, lads . . .

You can't be serious or you must have a short memory. Were Kilkenny not ridiculed week in week out during the years of dominance? Not only from posters on Boards but from some particularly bitter pundits. It's nothing to do with the so called traditional counties, it's to do with success. The successful team will always be in the spotlight and have refs etc on their backs. It's how you cope with it all. Kiely let his guard down.

formerlyET

slegs wrote: »

Your own words from three posts ago

"Sport is built on bitterness, on anonymous forums."

Doubling back on your own trail of nonsense at this stage...

I stand by that comment.

Look at this paranoid stuff you wrote - you maintain the new rules were introduced so all teams could play a Cork and Tipp style of hurling? Very unbalanced. You maintained that the rules were introduced to counteract Limerick and not protect the game from becoming an eyesore like football. Paranoid?

Ruin hurling? Hurling been bad for the last year or more. Persistent fouling is the reason and it will now be blown up continually until it's eradicated. Until teams get teh message that this is not acceptable any more. Happens in most leagues, every year, with new rules. Kiely maintains the introduction of new rules and trials in the league is a new thing. Embarrassing stuff.

Look at this One eyed stuff, you wrote:

I dont think we have ever had a situation before where the rules have been changed because a team has successfully employed a strategy within the rules ("the swarm defense"). Like Kiely, I have no issue with real frees which Limerick give too many of at times, but the notion that contact needs to be taken out of the game is ridiculous. This will ruin hurling and not sure why they think it is something that needs to be addressed. It feels like they just don't like the swarm defense so want it gone so they can watch Cork and Tipp style hurling from everybody. With the ball so light, by taking contact out with a free for everything of course players are going to simulate and go down. Any free within 100 yards is scorable so of course players will dive for the free at the first opportunity.

formerlyET

Good article by Conor Neville on the RTE website today. I think he nails a lot of things, that the Limerick bandwagoners, fresh from Pro14 and Premierships, wouldn't get - The more it changes, the more it stays the same:

Things could spin out in other directions. The question was posed in the wake of the draw with Tipperary as to whether the officials had been told to clamp down on Limerick's tackling style. If we know our history, we can foresee how this could play out. Limerick, like other upstart counties before them, will develop a persecution complex and suspect that the new rules are being arranged so as to prevent them trampling the competition under foot. A siege mentality akin to Galway '89 or Clare '98 could develop.


James Owens, three-time All-Ireland final referee, was the man in the middle in Pearse Stadium
More likely is the refs, themselves adjusting to the new directives, will swing back towards a more laissez faire style come championship. The phenomenon of referees applying the rule-book in more doctrinaire fashion in an early season league game is not a new one. Tyrrell noted as much last night, saying referees are usually whistle-happy early in the league.

In Barry Kelly's 'Men in Black' programme on Setanta, the four-time All-Ireland referee spoke of the importance of laying down the law early in the game so as to set the tone. It's possible that the same arc plays itself out over the course of a season.

Either the players will have to adapt or the refs will have to introduce our old friend discretion. Perhaps there'll be a meeting in the middle. And hopefully, hurling can get through its least important league with the game still intact.


(i'm still laughing about the paranoid and delusional idea that Limerick were being clamped down on after only one game in the season. One thing Limerick excel at, as a county, is paranoia. Hon Limerick!!!!)

limerickabroad

Grats wrote: »

You can't be serious or you must have a short memory. Were Kilkenny not ridiculed week in week out during the years of dominance? Not only from posters on Boards but from some particularly bitter pundits. It's nothing to do with the so called traditional counties, it's to do with success. The successful team will always be in the spotlight and have refs etc on their backs. It's how you cope with it all. Kiely let his guard down.

Genuinely, I have no recollection of Kilkenny being 'ridiculed'. Complete opposite actually - I would say they are and were universally admired as the greatest team of all time. What bitter pundits were ridiculing Kilkenny during 2006-2015? To be fair, I do recall some know-nothings on here repeatedly calling Tommy Walsh 'dirty' and a 'tramp', based on one or two incidents, but that's about it - same thing is happening to Hegarty, atm.- goes with being Hurler of the Year, maybe? (not comparing Hegarty to Tommy Walsh, btw. - TW probably the greatest hurler I've ever seen!)

Pogue eile

Haven't posted on/in the GAA section here for a long time and mainly because of the tribal childish stuff that has gone on in this thread over the last few pages was the reason, this place used to be somewhat sane when compared to twitter and the likes but I felt compelled to post just reading this thread, its getting a bit out of hand!

There has been a lot of non sense here to be fair. And just in the interests of transparency and openness before I make a few points I will declare that I am from Tipp

1. Are Limerick a dirty team? Not even in the slightest, the suggestion otherwise is absurd, they are a fine big strong physical team with a work ethic that can only be admired.
2. Do Limerick foul tactically? This is a more interesting question, I think the game plan and style they have developed simply leads to an increased chance of giving away frees but I don't think it is actually a tactic, merely a result.
3. Is Hurling on a slippery road? It might be, but I don't think that it is nearly as bad as some make out and it is certainly not the fault of Limerick - Derek McGrath and Davy Fitz were the original targets of peoples ire but simply because Limerick's different way of playing has become successful at the very top level, the clamour has become louder.
4. Are referees to blame for the latest free taking matches? Absolutely not, 90% plus of the frees awarded have been frees, they are simply applying the rules and I for one am very glad to see steps and the hand pass being refereed correctly. The hand pass has long become a joke, and I have seen suggestions that Limerick somehow introduced the 'thrown' hand pass, they did like fcuk, its rampant in the game, from U6 to Liam McCarthy - Limerick simply hand pass more so as a result they are seen to offend more. Just this weekend I only watched two games, and all four teams - Tipp, Cork, Limerick and Galway were throwing the ball, in fact the most blatant one I seen that led to a score was a Tipp player.
5. Was Kiely right what he said about Galway? I don't think he was, but he has every right to stand up for his players and if he sees something happening as an injustice or if he sees it as been directed at his players he has every right to stand up for them - its not a popularity contest, its all about winning, but I do think he will regret those comments and they were ill advised or at least ill advised to air them on a national broadcaster. He can talk all he likes about referees and 'buying' frees etc. the reality is that it was his team who have gifted Jason Forde and Evan Niland MOTM in two successive games and were very fortunate to finish yesterday with 15 players on the field.

But even allowing for all the foregoing, people really need to calm to fcuk down, we are two weeks into a league campaign that there was no preparatory work or group training for - basically in a normal year the Waterford Crystal or challenge game type stuff - and people are bemoaning the downfall of hurling.

No system or tactic has ever dominated the game for a sustained period, the game will adapt and evolve again. Limerick didn't win two All Irelands because of tactics or because Paul Kinnerk bought a fcukin white board, they won two all Irelands because they are an extremely talented, well drilled and hard working team.

formerlyET

Pogue eile wrote: »

Haven't posted on/in the GAA section here for a long time and mainly because of the tribal childish stuff that has gone on in this thread over the last few pages was the reason, this place used to be somewhat sane when compared to twitter and the likes but I felt compelled to post just reading this thread, its getting a bit out of hand!

There has been a lot of non sense here to be fair. And just in the interests of transparency and openness before I make a few points I will declare that I am from Tipp

.

I'd agree with the vast majority of your points.

But, I'd urge you to watch a few of those Limerick games last year. The persistent fouling in opposition halfback lines and fouling players breaking the line is without a shadow of a doubt, is a tactic. It's utilized way too much, not to be. It is a common feature of their play. A football tactic, 100%.

Have other teams been engaging it? Yes. Are more and more teams engaging it? YES. Would Davy have done it with Wexford to Limerick's level if he had the players to make it happen? 100%. Limerick have taken it to the next level though. And most teams, if not all (Cork aside), are doing it. Has to be addressed now.