National Hurling League 2021 discussion

Pogue eile

I see Kiely has retracted his comments about Galway, apologised unreservedly and admitted he was wrong!

I said earlier that he would regret it, but I didn't think it would happen that quickly! Fair play to him I guess for admitting he was wrong but it was an error in judgment on his behalf, hopefully it can be parked now.

formerlyET

Pogue eile wrote: »

I see Kiely has retracted his comments about Galway, apologised unreservedly and admitted he was wrong!

I said earlier that he would regret it, but I didn't think it would happen that quickly! Fair play to him I guess for admitting he was wrong but it was an error in judgment on his behalf, hopefully it can be parked now.

I see he didn't retract the comments he made about the frees against Tipp?

He can apologize all he wants. He tried to besmirch the Galway player's names.

That will be some game when they meet next. I can't wait.

formerlyET

Kiely says:
“Players and managements are struggling with the situation at the moment, but I believe we can come to a resolution on this with better communication and better interaction with officials in Croke Park.

“I think we can work on this and come up with solutions that will work for the year ahead, but it’s a work in progress.”

How about keeping quiet, John, and do your own job. Making rules isn't part of his job or to try and interfere and influence referees or make statements about players and their character.

Officials in Croke Park do an amazing job - they don't need anybody putting a headlight on them.

prishtinaboy99

MfMan wrote: »

Wish the whole verbal handbags after the weekend would go away. Kiely has a point about the game being ruined by frees, and by advantage largely not being applied. I think his 'diving' comments may have said with one eye on the future; so be it, he's there to win, not to make friends and doesn't need apologise for it. I hope and think Galway are long enough in the tooth not to be bothered about what went on afterwards. I do think also there's a certain amount of jealousy re: Limerick's success and a rather unfair attitude of 'needing to take them down a peg'. Some of their play last year was superb in fairness and at times they looked invincible.

Saying Galway stood up physically to Limerick last Sunday made me smile a bit; no Daithi, Jonny Glynn or Conor Cooney, Joe Cooney went off, JC only came on later. Four smaller forwards started. It was more a team built for pace rather than power. Tipp and KK (put of habit) should also be good enough to ask questions of Limerick as the season goes on. Based on what I've seen of Cork though, I don't think so. Rather, they may be good enough to beat Limerick, but a long way off yet to win Liam. I don't think they have enough good players brought in yet, or have a settled side, and their main men, Coleman, Horgan, Fitzgibbon, are having to do too much heavy lifting for the others still.

You are right to win out in the Championship consistency is the key and Cork cannot do it game after game as we have seen in recent years. On their day they can beat anyone but not put it in on a regular basis. That being said they have the most space for improvement of the chasing pack but this year May be a year too soon.

Not sure how Waterford will pan out or was last year their chance.

Vinnie222

Pogue eile wrote: »

Seriously man, give it a rest, you are neither funny or clever and your obsession with Limerick is just embarrassing at this point. You are exactly the type of poster I was referring to yesterday and it just ruins the possibility of having an adult conversation. Try Premierview I think it would be more your speed, lots of spoilt kids with agendas over there!

I'm not sure if you got barred out of Donkey Fords or tried to drop the gob on some young one in Smiths and she laughed at you or what other misfortune may have befallen you in Limerick, but you need to build a bridge, its not healthy for you!

Why bother replying to him. The guy needs to get a day job

Pogue eile

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Why bother replying to him. The guy needs to get a day job

I'd say he is a few years off that milestone, but yes of course you are right!!

formerlyET

Pogue eile wrote: »

Seriously man, give it a rest, you are neither funny or clever and your obsession with Limerick is just embarrassing at this point. You are exactly the type of poster I was referring to yesterday and it just ruins the possibility of having an adult conversation. Try Premierview I think it would be more your speed, lots of spoilt kids with agendas over there!

I'm not sure if you got barred out of Donkey Fords or tried to drop the gob on some young one in Smiths and she laughed at you or what other misfortune may have befallen you in Limerick, but you need to build a bridge, its not healthy for you!

Excellent points. And on topic too.

Grats

John Kiely has apologised for accusing Galway players of diving. He truly dropped his guard on Sunday. Then we had posters trying to back him up when there was no evidence to back up the allegation.

Hulk Hands

Pogue eile wrote: »

I see Kiely has retracted his comments about Galway, apologised unreservedly and admitted he was wrong!

I said earlier that he would regret it, but I didn't think it would happen that quickly! Fair play to him I guess for admitting he was wrong but it was an error in judgment on his behalf, hopefully it can be parked now.

Wasn't your normal "I said some things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have" climb down either. He was very specific that he thought he saw something and was incorrect about it

“At the time I was of the opinion that I had seen an incident that I wasn’t happy with: It was late in the game and very much to the forefront of my thoughts after the game.
“But over the last two days, I’ve been going through the video footage of the game and have had a very clear sight of those incidents I referred to. The bottom line is that what I thought I had seen was absolutely not the case."

There were plenty of people (and their imaginary neutral friends from Clare, Dublin, Thailand etc) who jumped on and called Galway divers, after Kielys comments were made. Will they have the humility to make similar retractions

breezy1985

I know I am guilty here too but should we maybe have an actual league thread and a separate Limerick GAA and associated criticism and conspiracy theory thread like we had to do with the Dubs

dobman88

Glenomra wrote: »

No, he was spot on. Even a Galway relation watching the game with me was embarrassed at Galway's continual diving. It had to be called out for the sake of hurling.

:pac:

Book your relation into specsavers.

Charlie69

Pogue eile wrote: »

Haven't posted on/in the GAA section here for a long time and mainly because of the tribal childish stuff that has gone on in this thread over the last few pages was the reason, this place used to be somewhat sane when compared to twitter and the likes but I felt compelled to post just reading this thread, its getting a bit out of hand!

There has been a lot of non sense here to be fair. And just in the interests of transparency and openness before I make a few points I will declare that I am from Tipp

1. Are Limerick a dirty team? Not even in the slightest, the suggestion otherwise is absurd, they are a fine big strong physical team with a work ethic that can only be admired.
2. Do Limerick foul tactically? This is a more interesting question, I think the game plan and style they have developed simply leads to an increased chance of giving away frees but I don't think it is actually a tactic, merely a result.
3. Is Hurling on a slippery road? It might be, but I don't think that it is nearly as bad as some make out and it is certainly not the fault of Limerick - Derek McGrath and Davy Fitz were the original targets of peoples ire but simply because Limerick's different way of playing has become successful at the very top level, the clamour has become louder.
4. Are referees to blame for the latest free taking matches? Absolutely not, 90% plus of the frees awarded have been frees, they are simply applying the rules and I for one am very glad to see steps and the hand pass being refereed correctly. The hand pass has long become a joke, and I have seen suggestions that Limerick somehow introduced the 'thrown' hand pass, they did like fcuk, its rampant in the game, from U6 to Liam McCarthy - Limerick simply hand pass more so as a result they are seen to offend more. Just this weekend I only watched two games, and all four teams - Tipp, Cork, Limerick and Galway were throwing the ball, in fact the most blatant one I seen that led to a score was a Tipp player.
5. Was Kiely right what he said about Galway? I don't think he was, but he has every right to stand up for his players and if he sees something happening as an injustice or if he sees it as been directed at his players he has every right to stand up for them - its not a popularity contest, its all about winning, but I do think he will regret those comments and they were ill advised or at least ill advised to air them on a national broadcaster. He can talk all he likes about referees and 'buying' frees etc. the reality is that it was his team who have gifted Jason Forde and Evan Niland MOTM in two successive games and were very fortunate to finish yesterday with 15 players on the field.

But even allowing for all the foregoing, people really need to calm to fcuk down, we are two weeks into a league campaign that there was no preparatory work or group training for - basically in a normal year the Waterford Crystal or challenge game type stuff - and people are bemoaning the downfall of hurling.

No system or tactic has ever dominated the game for a sustained period, the game will adapt and evolve again. Limerick didn't win two All Irelands because of tactics or because Paul Kinnerk bought a fcukin white board, they won two all Irelands because they are an extremely talented, well drilled and hard working team.

Excellent post... at last a bit of common sense... I've missed your contributions on here pogue eile.

threeball

Pogue eile wrote: »

I see Kiely has retracted his comments about Galway, apologised unreservedly and admitted he was wrong!

I said earlier that he would regret it, but I didn't think it would happen that quickly! Fair play to him I guess for admitting he was wrong but it was an error in judgment on his behalf, hopefully it can be parked now.

Fair play my arse. Don't come out with a pack of lies, regret saying it then apologise hoping its forgotten. No amount of snivelling apologies will make a difference now. Hes made training very easy for galway boys for the next few months.

formerlyET

The amazing ability of people to be dismissive of evidence is just baffling to me. Just watch something and support your team and then just accept anything their manager says... fascinating to witness. And then gravitate towards something that tries to please everyone without any evidence
.

And then there's the posters happy and quick to name call and abuse people who they know nothing about. And worse than that, there are the people who like those posts, and don't have the follow through to do it themselves.

Charlie69

formerlyET wrote: »

The amazing ability of people to be dismissive of evidence is just baffling to me. Just watch something and support your team and then just accept anything their manager says... fascinating to witness. And then gravitate towards something that tries to please everyone without any evidence
.

And then there's the posters happy and quick to name call and abuse people who they know nothing about. And worse than that, there are the people who like those posts, and don't have the follow through to do it themselves.

For what it's worth ET I think you're a genuine and fair poster on these boards but you've been labouring the same point on here for days... we get it... you believe that Limerick are guilty of some sort of premeditated tactical fouling... How many times though?

Girly Gal

Kiely has put the idea that Galway dive to win frees and that Limerick are harshly treated out there now, that'll be in the minds of referees later in the year, he obviously sees Galway as one of the main threats to Limerick and is hoping that if the teams meet again in the championship that referees will think twice about awarding "soft" frees to Galway, that would make a huge difference in a match if a referee is reluctant to award frees to Galway/ against Limerick. He's planting the seed now and hoping to reap the rewards in the championship.

formerlyET

Fair enough, I'll unfollow the thread. I see that a lot posters are pushing for me to go (encouraged by you Charlie69 it has to be said). And the mods are quiet. Some of my posts got a lot of engagement from a certain sector and I've been hounded by a number of posters (I don't think that's over the top). Normally, I wouldn't let people like that get their way but there are other threads. But to engage my posts and not expect a response or for me to engage with new evidence is a bit odd. I'm entitled to back my points. But it has got poisonous so I'll disengage.

Charlie69

formerlyET wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll unfollow the thread. I see that a lot posters are pushing for me to go (encouraged by you Charlie69 it has to be said). And the mods are quiet. Some of my posts got a lot of engagement from a certain sector and I've been hounded by a number of posters (I don't think that's over the top). Normally, I wouldn't let people like that get their way but there are other threads. But to engage my posts and not expect a response or for me to engage with new evidence is a bit odd. I'm entitled to back my points. But it has got poisonous so I'll disengage.

What on earth are you talking about, I just offered an opinion... nothing against you at all and I have no idea how you could have taken it personally. As I said I just thought you had beaten the tactical fouling thing to death.

seligehgit

Charlie69 wrote: »

For what it's worth ET I think you're a genuine and fair poster on these boards but you've been labouring the same point on here for days... we get it... you believe that Limerick are guilty of some sort of premeditated tactical fouling... How many times though?

formerlyET wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll unfollow the thread. I see that a lot posters are pushing for me to go (encouraged by you Charlie69 it has to be said). And the mods are quiet. Some of my posts got a lot of engagement from a certain sector and I've been hounded by a number of posters (I don't think that's over the top). Normally, I wouldn't let people like that get their way but there are other threads. But to engage my posts and not expect a response or for me to engage with new evidence is a bit odd. I'm entitled to back my points. But it has got poisonous so I'll disengage.

Charlie69 wrote: »

What on earth are you talking about, I just offered an opinion... nothing against you at all and I have no idea how you could have taken it personally. As I said I just thought you had beaten the tactical fouling thing to death.

formerlyET

Nobody wishes for you to disengage from the the thread.

Charlie69's initial post was made undoubtedly with the nicest of intentions.I do not know how you could read it any other fashion.

I think posters get the bolded but it's the repeated statement of same that has aggravated some posters.It is derailing the thread.

How about we talk about the progress that Antrim appear to be making,other teams,forthcoming contests or other topics relating the hurling league?

pajoguy

seligehgit wrote: »

formerlyET

Nobody wishes for you to disengage from the the thread.

Charlie69's initial post was made undoubtedly with the nicest of intentions.I do not know how you could read it any other fashion.

I think posters get the bolded but it's the repeated statement of same that has aggravated some posters.It is derailing the thread.

How about we talk about the progress that Antrim appear to be making,other teams,forthcoming contests or other topics relating the hurling league?

Have Antrim being able to train before the teams from the republic. Would that kind of a headstart be levelled out over the season. It would be great to have a strong antrim team as opposed to the proposed team Ulster a few years ago. Hopefully they keep up the performances and make further progress.

BENDYBINN

Girly Gal wrote: »

Kiely has put the idea that Galway dive to win frees and that Limerick are harshly treated out there now, that'll be in the minds of referees later in the year, he obviously sees Galway as one of the main threats to Limerick and is hoping that if the teams meet again in the championship that referees will think twice about awarding "soft" frees to Galway, that would make a huge difference in a match if a referee is reluctant to award frees to Galway/ against Limerick. He's planting the seed now and hoping to reap the rewards in the championship.

It’s backfired on him though........The fact that limerick foul to stop the opposition coming out from defense has been well highlighted. A Hurley to the groin will not go unpunished this year...........

threeball

pajoguy wrote: »

Have Antrim being able to train before the teams from the republic. Would that kind of a headstart be levelled out over the season. It would be great to have a strong antrim team as opposed to the proposed team Ulster a few years ago. Hopefully they keep up the performances and make further progress.

All Gaa teams were subject to the same restrictions. I don't think there's been any reports of Antrim breaking the protocol.

Girly Gal

BENDYBINN wrote: »

It’s backfired on him though........The fact that limerick foul to stop the opposition coming out from defense has been well highlighted. A Hurley to the groin will not go unpunished this year...........

Too early to say it's backfired yet, we'll have to wait for later in the year to see if this has backfired or not

BENDYBINN

Girly Gal wrote: »

Too early to say it's backfired yet, we'll have to wait for later in the year to see if this has backfired or not

Kilkenny v limerick will be interesting at the weekend...

FoFo1254122

i see kiely has apologised for his Galway simulation comment.

breezy1985

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Kilkenny v limerick will be interesting at the weekend...

They are in opposite groups

TheRiverman

FoFo1254122 wrote: »

i see kiely has apologised for his Galway simulation comment.

Jackie Tyrrell should apologise also for agreeing with Kiely on Sunday night.

padraig47

Pogue eile wrote: »

I see Kiely has retracted his comments about Galway, apologised unreservedly and admitted he was wrong!

I said earlier that he would regret it, but I didn't think it would happen that quickly! Fair play to him I guess for admitting he was wrong but it was an error in judgment on his behalf, hopefully it can be parked now.

he is a sore loser and cannot take a loss like a man

Grats

TheRiverman wrote: »

Jackie Tyrrell should apologise also for agreeing with Kiely on Sunday night.

There was no discussion about Kiely's diving accusation. It was concentrated on Kiely's criticism of the free count. Have another listen.

breezy1985

Grats wrote: »

There was no discussion about Kiely's diving accusation. It was concentrated on Kiely's criticism of the free count. Have another listen.

That doesn't fit the narrative though

slegs

Girly Gal wrote: »

Kiely has put the idea that Galway dive to win frees and that Limerick are harshly treated out there now, that'll be in the minds of referees later in the year, he obviously sees Galway as one of the main threats to Limerick and is hoping that if the teams meet again in the championship that referees will think twice about awarding "soft" frees to Galway, that would make a huge difference in a match if a referee is reluctant to award frees to Galway/ against Limerick. He's planting the seed now and hoping to reap the rewards in the championship.

Highly unlikely he is thinking that deeply about it and much more likely a simple reaction to a question he was asked (one that he regrets now). There were plenty of soft frees given against Limerick in that match (the stand your ground/barging type). Diving/simulation was poor way to describe it as the Galway players probably didn't do anything intentionally and was much more to do with Owens' refereeing than anything Galway players were doing.

The reaction coming from the Limerick side is down to this supposed clampdown on contact which seems to be strategy coming from the refs early on in the league. I have no issue with real fouls being given of which Limerick do too much of also but as another poster said is a consequence of their swarm defense style. Will be interesting to see if this "contact clampdown" is a permanent trend or just early league laying down markers stuff. If its permanent its a pretty big change in how the game has been officiated over the last number of years where a certain amount of "on the edge of rules" contact has been allowed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there is a lot of pretty nasty stuff being spouted on here that Limerick intentionally foul and worse as part of their game plan with the subtext being they wouldn't be successful without it.

Either way it didn't matter much to the result on Sunday. Galway were simply much better on the day and look like they are shaping up well this year.

Grats

Owens is accused of been whistle happy last Sunday. That may be the case but he most definitely was very lenient when it came to yellow, and red, cards. Flanagan, Hegarty and Hayes can count themselves very lucky to have lasted the entire match. On another day Owens would have issued the cards.

Kiely managed to steer the focus away from what his own players were getting up to. Clever manager.

slegs

Grats wrote: »

Owens is accused of been whistle happy last Sunday. That may be the case but he most definitely was very lenient when it came to yellow, and red, cards. Flanagan, Hegarty and Hayes can count themselves very lucky to have lasted the entire match. On another day Owens would have issued the cards.

Kiely managed to steer the focus away from what his own players were getting up to. Clever manager.

Maybe they were lucky to not lose one to red but there were actually incidents on both sides. Hegarty got a wild belt to the helmet no where near the ball that wasnt even given as a free. Commentary on here from a couple of posters was "good enough for him". A bit of balance wouldn't go astray.

Grats

slegs wrote: »

Maybe they were lucky to not lose one to red but there were actually incidents on both sides. Hegarty got a wild belt to the helmet no where near the ball that wasnt even given as a free. Commentary on here from a couple of posters was "good enough for him". A bit of balance wouldn't go astray.

I agree, the Galway strike on Hegarty wasn't dealt with properly either. My post was more to do with Kiely's moaning about the soft frees when he could have lost players due to been carded.

breezy1985

Grats wrote: »

I agree, the Galway strike on Hegarty wasn't dealt with properly either. My post was more to do with Kiely's moaning about the soft frees when he could have lost players due to been carded.

It's just a manager thing really. They are always one sided and trying to play games in interviews it's just blown out of all proportion when it's the All Ireland winning manager. If it was the Antrim or Westmeath manager everyone here would be jumping to agree with them

PTH2009

Interesting weekend coming up

Repeat of the 2020 All Ireland Final and let's hope Waterford put it up to Limerick, Waterfords form over the last 2 weeks would suggest we could be in for a hammering if we don't improve

Tipp vs Galway could be a cracker

Cork vs Westmeath should be straight forward with Cork winning handy enough

Dublin vs Antrim will be interesting as both will meet in the Championship later on in the summer and Antrim will like the small size of Parnell Park

Clare need to get back to winning ways very fast and will come under pressure in this game against Laois who have nothing to lose

Wexford vs Kilkenny could be great and Davy will always want to get one over on Brian Cody.

BENDYBINN

padraig47 wrote: »

he is a sore loser and cannot take a loss like a man

His team fouls big time!........he’s dead right to try and getaway with it.Let the game flow he says and let the dirtiest team win.......

MfMan

PTH2009 wrote: »

Interesting weekend coming up

Repeat of the 2020 All Ireland Final and let's hope Waterford put it up to Limerick, Waterfords form over the last 2 weeks would suggest we could be in for a hammering if we don't improve

Tipp vs Galway could be a cracker

Cork vs Westmeath should be straight forward with Cork winning handy enough

Dublin vs Antrim will be interesting as both will meet in the Championship later on in the summer and Antrim will like the small size of Parnell Park

Clare need to get back to winning ways very fast and will come under pressure in this game against Laois who have nothing to lose

Wexford vs Kilkenny could be great and Davy will always want to get one over on Brian Cody.

Waterford fielded a weaker team v Westmeath I think? A full team workout will be no harm for them but I fear Limerick will be in 'backlash' mode'

Tipp/Galway might be a bit of both resting on their oars a little; they're like an old married couple, they know each other so well at this point, and will keep their powder dry for future meetings. From a Galway POV, the game with Cork will be of more interest, to see how they cope with the Rebel's newly-developing style.

Clare should do the business and agree about WX/KK, think home advantage to swing it. Dubs will be a good weather-vane for Antrim, who will feel they may have the beating of them in the championship and would like to frank their progress this year by doing so.

Rasputin11

slegs wrote: »

Maybe they were lucky to not lose one to red but there were actually incidents on both sides. Hegarty got a wild belt to the helmet no where near the ball that wasnt even given as a free. Commentary on here from a couple of posters was "good enough for him". A bit of balance wouldn't go astray.

Cleere was about 4 yards from it on the sideline and did nothing, I'd blame him for not letting the ref know. He had a perfect viewpoint.

pajoguy

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Cleere was about 4 yards from it on the sideline and did nothing, I'd blame him for not letting the ref know. He had a perfect viewpoint.

Cleere shouldnt be left near a field his officiating is so poor. Probably be given the all ireland this year.

Pogue eile

TheRiverman wrote: »

Jackie Tyrrell should apologise also for agreeing with Kiely on Sunday night.

As a Tipp man I am loathe to defend the bould Jackie, but in this instance he has absolutely nothing to apologise for, he supported Kiely on the fact that the game was spoilt by the volume of 'soft frees'.

Of course Joanne Cantwell should have asked him about the diving accusation but she didn't - again probably being told into her ear not to such are the way if things in Montrose - but Tyrell never once mentioned anything about Galway.

Pogue eile

PTH2009 wrote: »

Dublin vs Antrim will be interesting as both will meet in the Championship later on in the summer and Antrim will like the small size of Parnell Park.

Parnell Park is not a small field, its actually wider than Thurles and longer and wider than the Gaelic Grounds.

The stands and standing areas are very close to the field which gives the impression that the field is smaller, same as Ennis. It's a myth and with no crowds in this weekend there is no difference to any other pitch.

All the above aside I'm not sure why a smaller field would suit Antrim, having watched them quite a bit over the last 18 months I haven't seen anything that would suggest they would have a preference for a tighter field, if anything quite the opposite.

PTH2009

Pogue eile wrote: »

Parnell Park is not a small field, its actually wider than Thurles and longer and wider than the Gaelic Grounds.

The stands and standing areas are very close to the field which gives the impression that the field is smaller, same as Ennis. It's a myth and with no crowds in this weekend there is no difference to any other pitch.

All the above aside I'm not sure why a smaller field would suit Antrim, having watched them quite a bit over the last 18 months I haven't seen anything that would suggest they would have a preference for a tighter field, if anything quite the opposite.

Parnell Parks seems like a shooting range, a lot of the hurling games produce high enough scores

breezy1985

PTH2009 wrote: »

Parnell Parks seems like a shooting range, a lot of the hurling games produce high enough scores

That's just the Dublin back lines

Pogue eile

PTH2009 wrote: »

Parnell Parks seems like a shooting range, a lot of the hurling games produce high enough scores

Surely the tighter the field the lower the score would be??

big_drive

Diarmuid byrnes after getting one match ban for incident at finish of game last weekend

breezy1985

big_drive wrote: »

Diarmuid byrnes after getting one match ban for incident at finish of game last weekend

No surprise really. Anything for the lad who attacked him first ?

big_drive

breezy1985 wrote: »

No surprise really. Anything for the lad who attacked him first ?

No, but I wouldn't expect it

The first part was harmless, it was the reaction that was a step up in terms of seriousness

Jacktheelad

Diarmuid Byrnes threw a punch, you can't be doing that.

Not the brightest idea punching a helmet mind, thankfully it's just a deserved one game ban & not a few games out with a hand injury on top of it.

breezy1985

big_drive wrote: »

No, but I wouldn't expect it

The first part was harmless, it was the reaction that was a step up in terms of seriousness

Harmless but against the rules. People are getting ripped apart here for saying things like that when Limerick break the rules