Has anyone had any luck with politicans about housing crisis?

mariaalice

Idbatterim wrote: »

Free housing for " the poor" paid for by the poor, who will never own their own home or have to emigrate etc...

It all well giving out but what is your solution to housing those on low income that does not cost anything to the taxpayer.

Two examples and you tell me the solution.

Person A has a child and works in a creche their income is 27k plus a small amount of maintenance they live in Dublin.

In fact, what are your solution for any modestly paid worker or for those with mental health issues or disabilities in Dublin?

Any nonsensical answers such as they need to get better jobs = a fail as every society need carers, childcare workers, retail, transport and myriad of other job that do no pay very well.

ELM327

There is no housing crisis.

I'd much prefer that our ministers' time is spent on the vaccine rollout.

mariaalice

ELM327 wrote: »

There is no housing crisis.

I'd much prefer that our ministers' time is spent on the vaccine rollout.

The is an affordability issue for some that is not a crisis.

Xterminator

ELM327 wrote: »

There is no housing crisis.

To be fair for people on the property ladder, there is no crisis.

they have pulled the ladder up behind them and those who live in rented accommodation are not invited to the party.

of those on rented accommodation the ones with council & state funded controlled rent, as again okay, was rent is tied to income and tenure is safe.

Of those who are on the waiting list, or not eligible - they pay more for rent than a mortgage would cost on the open market, but they are excluded from getting a mortgage - and if they ever get ill or lose their job etc, they are truly screwed.

But i am guessing ELM327 and a large chunk of the population are grand, and sure if they are grand, they can say

There is no housing crisis

slipperyox

I reckon the solution of housing is as follows:

1) Everyone accepts that housing is exceptionally important .
2) As such, it is not treated as a "good".
3) Every person in ireland is only allowed to own 2 houses.

Give 15 years for the last rule to kick in.

That would solve an awful lot of problems, for several reasons.

Mrs OBumble

[quote="slipperyox;116875113"
3) Every person in ireland is only allowed to own 2 houses.

Give 15 years for the last rule to kick in.

That would solve an awful lot of problems, for several reasons.[/quote]

If companies were not allowed to own houses, there would be a LOT of social houses being sold.

Dav010

mariaalice wrote: »

It all well giving out but what is your solution to housing those on low income that does not cost anything to the taxpayer.

Two examples and you tell me the solution.

Person A has a child and works in a creche their income is 27k plus a small amount of maintenance they live in Dublin.

In fact, what are your solution for any modestly paid worker or for those with mental health issues or disabilities in Dublin?

Any nonsensical answers such as they need to get better jobs = a fail as every society need carers, childcare workers, retail, transport and myriad of other job that do no pay very well.

It was ever thus. Buying in most cities is not cheap for obvious reasons. I hate to say it, but society does not owe anyone a house.

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

The is an affordability issue for some that is not a crisis.

Correct, if your current job cannot fund a house purchase then you need a new job.

Xterminator wrote: »

To be fair for people on the property ladder, there is no crisis.

they have pulled the ladder up behind them and those who live in rented accommodation are not invited to the party.

of those on rented accommodation the ones with council & state funded controlled rent, as again okay, was rent is tied to income and tenure is safe.

Of those who are on the waiting list, or not eligible - they pay more for rent than a mortgage would cost on the open market, but they are excluded from getting a mortgage - and if they ever get ill or lose their job etc, they are truly screwed.

But i am guessing ELM327 and a large chunk of the population are grand, and sure if they are grand, they can say

I rented for 10 years privately before buying a cheap apartment in 2018. We're now looking to move again.


There was no crisis when I was renting up to 2018, and there is no crisis now.

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

It all well giving out but what is your solution to housing those on low income that does not cost anything to the taxpayer.

Two examples and you tell me the solution.

Person A has a child and works in a creche their income is 27k plus a small amount of maintenance they live in Dublin.

In fact, what are your solution for any modestly paid worker or for those with mental health issues or disabilities in Dublin?

Any nonsensical answers such as they need to get better jobs = a fail as every society need carers, childcare workers, retail, transport and myriad of other job that do no pay very well.

Person A should of thought about the consequences of having a kid before having one and at the very least asking one very basic question can I afford it.
Also why isnt babydaddy paying more. Person A could afford to live in other areas of the country why should they get preferential treatment of living somewhere that a high number of people also want to live? Why is it it nonsensical to say they need to get a better job?? Its as nonsensical as asking others to pay for you to stay somewhere you cant afford.

Mad_maxx

slipperyox wrote: »

I reckon the solution of housing is as follows:

1) Everyone accepts that housing is exceptionally important .
2) As such, it is not treated as a "good".
3) Every person in ireland is only allowed to own 2 houses.

Give 15 years for the last rule to kick in.

That would solve an awful lot of problems, for several reasons.

you forgot another key solution

1. frivolous objections to developments should not be entertained , that is a major factor and its completely politicised , SF have blocked building left right and centre in Dublin as they are the largest party on DCC , pure political cynicism

mariaalice

Dav010 wrote: »

It was ever thus. Buying in most cities is not cheap for obvious reasons. I hate to say it, but society does not owe anyone a house.

Society does not own anyone a house but if you want services in large urban areas people have to be housed.

So how does society house moderately or averagely paid workers? and preferably it's not to cost the taxpayer any money.

slipperyox

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If companies were not allowed to own houses, there would be a LOT of social houses being sold.

Why would a company need to own a house?
A person in the company could.

ELM327

fliball123 wrote: »

Person A should of thought about the consequences of having a kid before having one and at the very least asking one very basic question can I afford it.
Also why isnt babydaddy paying more. Person A could afford to live in other areas of the country why should they get preferential treatment of living somewhere that a high number of people also want to live? Why is it it nonsensical to say they need to get a better job?? Its as nonsensical as asking others to pay for you to stay somewhere you cant afford.

Simples. Person A should move to an area they can afford! I moved from Dublin to Meath in 2014 as I couldnt afford to rent a larger house in Dublin.

mariaalice

fliball123 wrote: »

Person A should of thought about the consequences of having a kid before having one and at the very least asking one very basic question can I afford it.
Also why isnt babydaddy paying more. Person A could afford to live in other areas of the country why should they get preferential treatment of living somewhere that a high number of people also want to live? Why is it it nonsensical to say they need to get a better job?? Its as nonsensical as asking others to pay for you to stay somewhere you cant afford.

First off A is from Dublin and is working in a creche with the children of well-off IT workers and the like the IT worker can't go to work unless A goes to work.
If A gets a better Job who is going to work in the childcare sector or any sector that pays modestly.

Define affordable in regards to having a baby by your definition everyone on average and above incomes in Dublin should not have a baby as the average cost of child care is 1000k a month.

Where within commuting range of Dublin would a worker on 27k get a home?

By you definition evey lower-paid civil servant, retail, pub, restaurant, childcare, and care worker should feck off out of Dublin.

Dav010

mariaalice wrote: »

Society does not own anyone a house but if you want services in large urban areas people have to be housed.

So how does society house moderately or averagely paid workers? and preferably it's not to cost the taxpayer any money.

I understand your point, but this is not unique to Ireland. I lived and worked in London and New York in the 90s and could not afford to live near where I worked in either. I had long commutes daily in both cities. Eventually I took a job outside London where I could afford to live within 30mins of where I worked. Ce la vie.

Mrs OBumble

slipperyox wrote: »

Why would a company need to own a house?
A person in the company could.

How many people do you think there are working in Clúid, Respond, Tuath, etc

mariaalice

ELM327 wrote: »

Simples. Person A should move to an area they can afford! I moved from Dublin to Meath in 2014 as I couldnt afford to rent a larger house in Dublin.

Where is the area when A on an income of 27k plus say 3k maintenance could house themselves and still work in childcare in Dublin and by way, A has a degree? they just happen to work in a not very well-paid area.

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

Where is the area when A on an income of 27k plus say 3k maintenance could house themselves and still work in childcare in Dublin and by way, A has a degree? they just happen to work in a not very well-paid area.

Why have they to work in Dublin? That's not affordable for them, demonstrably, as they cannot afford to live there.
(The degree is not relevant by the way, that just means they have spent thousands of taxpayer money to get a qualification)


27k is a low salary, but you could get housing in plenty of areas with that.
Cavan for instance.

mariaalice

Dav010 wrote: »

I understand your point, but this is not unique to Ireland. I lived and worked in London and New York in the 90s and could not afford to live near where I worked in either. I had long commutes daily in both cities. Eventually I took a job outside London where I could afford to live within 30mins of where I worked. Ce la vie.

Nobody is answering the question of where within commuting distance of their job in Dublin A on an income of 27k could house themselves?

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

Nobody is answering the question of where within commuting distance of their job in Dublin A on an income of 27k could house themselves?

Because they cannot afford to sustain a lifestyle in dublin on a single 27k salary?


Show me an area of london, paris, new york, berlin etc where you can live in the city on a single 27k salary?

Shelga

ELM327 wrote: »

Why have they to work in Dublin? That's not affordable for them, demonstrably, as they cannot afford to live there.
(The degree is not relevant by the way, that just means they have spent thousands of taxpayer money to get a qualification)


27k is a low salary, but you could get housing in plenty of areas with that.
Cavan for instance.

What about nurses, binmen, childcare workers, teachers, bus drivers, retail workers, bricklayers, social workers, nursing home staff, etc etc?

Sure, let's just put them all in Cavan and have them commute 2 hours each way to work in Dublin, and if they don't like it, tough.

The housing market in this country is not working for vast swathes of the population. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

Dav010

mariaalice wrote: »

Nobody is answering the question of where within commuting distance of their job in Dublin A on an income of 27k could house themselves?

There probably isn’t, but that is not to say there has to be. As I said, that is not unique to Dublin, if you can’t afford to live/work where you want, you have to consider the alternatives, either a higher paying job or a lower cost living area.

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

First off A is from Dublin and is working in a creche with the children of well-off IT workers and the like the IT worker can't go to work unless A goes to work.
If A gets a better Job who is going to work in the childcare sector or any sector that pays modestly.

Define affordable in regards to having a baby by your definition everyone on average and above incomes in Dublin should not have a baby as the average cost of child care is 1000k a month.

Where within commuting range of Dublin would a worker on 27k get a home?

By you definition evey lower-paid civil servant, retail, pub, restaurant, childcare, and care worker should feck off out of Dublin.

Person A needs to stop thinking they are vital when it comes to keeping the creche going if they leave their job in the creche there will be another worker ready to step in. Maybe one who has not got a kid and has less outgoings?

Did I say anything about who should or should not have a baby. What I was trying to say is anyone having a kid should sit down and think about it and do the math and understand how expensive they are before having one, you know plan and save to have one instead of using the state to pay for them. Normally it takes 2 people to have a kid why is the onus on the state to step in and be daddy, where the hell is daddy?????

What I am spelling out is more or less common sense. There are rooms to rent in Dublin for anyone on 27k that they could afford, if you want your own place then your going to have to re-educate, re-skill and up your income level, you know basically the same options every other citizen has in the country. I dont see why you or anyone else should feel they are owed something just because you work in a creche for 27k or you have a kid. Sorry if this seems harsh but we are all running the same race and jumping the same hurdles.

mariaalice

ELM327 wrote: »

Because they cannot afford to sustain a lifestyle in dublin on a single 27k salary?


Show me an area of london, paris, new york, berlin etc where you can live in the city on a single 27k salary?

They have helped to buy in London and key worker money. There is affordable housing in New york.

So basically to keep people who have an issue with taxpayer-funded social housing happy Dublin is to be confined to the well of and all those servicing the well off providing them with child care, serving them in M&S, or looking after them in a hospital are to move to an area with a 2 hours commute?

mariaalice

fliball123 wrote: »

Person A needs to stop thinking they are vital when it comes to keeping the creche going if they leave their job in the creche there will be another worker ready to step in. Maybe one who has not got a kid and has less outgoings?

Did I say anything about who should or should not have a baby. What I was trying to say is anyone having a kid should sit down and think about it and do the math and understand how expensive they are before having one, you know plan and save to have one instead of using the state to pay for them. Normally it takes 2 people to have a kid why is the onus on the state to step in and be daddy, where the hell is daddy?????

What I am spelling out is more or less common sense. There are rooms to rent in Dublin for anyone on 27k that they could afford, if you want your own place then your going to have to re-educate, res-kill and up your income level, you know basically the same options every other citizen has in the country. I dont see why you or anyone else should feel they are owed something just because you work in a creche for 27k or you have a kid. Sorry if this seems harsh but we are all running the same race and jumping the same hurdles.

The childcare facility has have brought in Spanish staff because they can get local and they dont stay so A won't be replaced just like that.

FileNotFound

I'm not sure what capital city the OP plans to move to in order to get a house for cheaper?

With the base cost of land in Dublin (All private owned so not much the Gov can do) and limited building (Recession followed by Covid) I am not sure what anyone expects the Government to do, especially right now.

Irish (me included) are obsessed with ownership - Germany, France and many other major cities are inclined to rental as cost to buy is not feasible, we are just slowly progressing in the same vein.

Would we prefer to keep yapping on about an impossible ask (Give me a house in dublin for 150k) or is it time we looked to emulate long term rental rules like exist elsewhere on the continent, giving people stability in a home (even if they don't financially own it).


The pipe dream won't fix anything, might as well be realistic.

Mrs OBumble

mariaalice wrote: »

Nobody is answering the question of where within commuting distance of their job in Dublin A on an income of 27k could house themselves?

A person on 27k is not expected to house themselves in Dublin, they qualify for social housing because they don't earn enough.

FileNotFound

ELM327 wrote: »

Because they cannot afford to sustain a lifestyle in dublin on a single 27k salary?


Show me an area of london, paris, new york, berlin etc where you can live in the city on a single 27k salary?

Isn't a single person on a wage of under 27k able to avail of HAP? Thought i read that on boards here some time back.

Shelga

Listen, I'm not expecting magic solutions. What really gets to me now is that I would have been able to buy a property at a somewhat reasonable price this time last year, based on my current salary and financial position.

Now, because of the pandemic and panic buying, with construction halted for months and months, with no indication from government about when viewings will recommence, I cannot.

I'm frustrated that what was a very tough situation, in 2019/early 2020, is now dire, for huge amounts of people.

mariaalice

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A person on 27k is not expected to house themselves in Dublin, they qualify for social housing because they don't earn enough.

Of course but that is heretical to some and they believe such a person is getting some advantage over them plus they believe they are the cause of them not being able to afford a house.

It is a coping mechanism to blame others and it does seem logical to them.