Has anyone had any luck with politicans about housing crisis?

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

Nobody is answering the question of where within commuting distance of their job in Dublin A on an income of 27k could house themselves?

OK so after tax this person comes out with 2080 (using pwc take home pay calc)


They also get 250 a month in maintenance, if they have one kid they get childrens allowance of 140 a week so 560 a month. Then this girl is also under the rate (under 35k in Dublin) where she can apply for and get HAP so in Dublin this is 1250 a month. So all together this girl has a spending capacity of 4140 a month.

So to live you need to eat, heat, elecy, broadband, sky and living going for a pint even enough there for a holiday if they budget.

600 Eating a month should be about (I am married 2 kids and get a weekly shop for under 150) so 1 Adult 1 kid should easily be able to do this.
100 Elecy/heat
100 broadband/sky/netflix (whatever floats your boat)
150 on train/bus for work (this can also be offset with your employer with certain government schemes)
1000 for their own childcare??
190 for beers, clothes, holidays etc.

Comes to about 2140

So she is left with 2k to rent

If you look at daft there are 1845 properties available for under 2000 a month in Dublin

take home calc
https://www.pwc.ie/issues/budget-2021/income-tax-calculator.html


HAP payments and rates
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

ELM327

Shelga wrote: »

What about nurses, binmen, childcare workers, teachers, bus drivers, retail workers, bricklayers, social workers, nursing home staff, etc etc?

Sure, let's just put them all in Cavan and have them commute 2 hours each way to work in Dublin, and if they don't like it, tough.

The housing market in this country is not working for vast swathes of the population. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

It's not 2 hours from Cavan. I lived 10 mins from Whitegate in Cavan and we had a 40 minute commute to work. We could not afford to live in Dublin so we moved.

mariaalice wrote: »

They have helped to buy in London and key worker money. There is affordable housing in New york.

So basically to keep people who have an issue with taxpayer-funded social housing happy Dublin is to be confined to the well of and all those servicing the well off providing them with child care, serving them in M&S, or looking after them in a hospital are to move to an area with a 2 hours commute?

Not necessary.
Move to where you can afford.
Work in an commutable area you deem appropriate.

FileNotFound wrote: »

Isn't a single person on a wage of under 27k able to avail of HAP? Thought i read that on boards here some time back.

HAP limit is 35k I think?

ELM327

fliball123 wrote: »

OK so after tax this person comes out with 2080 (using pwc take home pay calc)


They also get 250 a month in maintenance, if they have one kid they get childrens allowance of 140 a week so 560 a month. Then this girl is also under the rate (under 35k in Dublin) where she can apply for and get HAP so in Dublin this is 1250 a month. So all together this girl has a spending capacity of 4140 a month.

So to live you need to eat, heat, elecy, broadband, sky and living going for a pint even enough there for a holiday if they budget.

600 Eating a month should be about (I am married 2 kids and get a weekly shop for under 150) so 1 Adult 1 kid should easily be able to do this.
100 Elecy/heat
100 broadband/sky/netflix (whatever floats your boat)
150 on train/bus for work (this can also be offset with your employer with certain government schemes)
1000 for their own childcare??
190 for beers, clothes, holidays etc.

Comes to about 2140

So she is left with 2k to rent

If you look at daft there are 1845 properties available for under 2000 a month in Dublin

take home calc
https://www.pwc.ie/issues/budget-2021/income-tax-calculator.html


HAP payments and rates
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

Careful, people asking these questions often want to rant on , and are not interested in reality

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

The childcare facility has have brought in Spanish staff because they can get local and they dont stay so A won't be replaced just like that.

Yes they will if A gets a better job there will be someone waiting sorry to burst your bubble on this but that is how it is

fliball123

ELM327 wrote: »

Careful, people asking these questions often want to rant on , and are not interested in reality

This is it I like you had to leave Dublin as I cant afford it yet I will be expected to pay through the nose in taxes to help low wage/single parent workers stay in Dublin. Not to mention the costs of traveling into work in Dublin on top which is all paid out of after tax income

FileNotFound

Shelga wrote: »

Listen, I'm not expecting magic solutions. What really gets to me now is that I would have been able to buy a property at a somewhat reasonable price this time last year, based on my current salary and financial position.

Now, because of the pandemic and panic buying, with construction halted for months and months, with no indication from government about when viewings will recommence, I cannot.

I'm frustrated that what was a very tough situation, in 2019/early 2020, is now dire, for huge amounts of people.

People are still viewing any buying houses throughout this, Sadly the building slow down will probably never be able to be counteracted fully

Harsh reality

Tacitus Kilgore

fliball123 wrote: »

This is it I like you had to leave Dublin as I cant afford it yet I will be expected to pay through the nose in taxes to help low wage/single parent workers stay in Dublin. Not to mention the costs of traveling into work in Dublin on top which is all paid out of after tax income

Would be nice if both you and the lower paid folk could afford to live there though

Shelga

ELM327 wrote: »

It's not 2 hours from Cavan. I lived 10 mins from Whitegate in Cavan and we had a 40 minute commute to work. We could not afford to live in Dublin so we moved.

Let me guess, you drove? So all the nurses should be happy with a 200km round trip on the already congested M3 to go do a 10 hour shift in a covid ward? That's going to cost them €4-500 a month in fuel and tolls, and add (being generous) 15-20 hours to their week, every week.

It's just as well you're not in politics if your answer to these questions is to shrug and say "What do you expect?"

I don't think we should just abandon the idea of ever trying to make anything better for the people of the country, because that's just the system and, well, tough.

I just see no innovative ideas from the weak and mediocre members of the cabinet.

mariaalice

fliball123 wrote: »

Yes they will if A gets a better job there will be someone waiting sorry to burst your bubble on this but that is how it is

Of course but in Dublin it's not as simple as that, lower-paid workers have a hard time in Dublin.

It's a bit of a pointless argument really as every urban location has to have a huge amount of staff who are modestly paid. I do think this idea that someone can only live in the part of Dublin they grew up in is nonsense and a bit entitled on the other hand saying move to Cavan is equally as nonsensical.

ELM327

Shelga wrote: »

Let me guess, you drove? So all the nurses should be happy with a 200km round trip on the already congested M3 to go do a 10 hour shift in a covid ward? That's going to cost them €4-500 a month in fuel and tolls, and add (being generous) 15-20 hours to their week, every week.

It's just as well you're not in politics if your answer to these questions is to shrug and say "What do you expect?"

I don't think we should just abandon the idea of ever trying to make anything better for the people of the country, because that's just the system and, well, tough.

I just see no innovative ideas from the weak and mediocre members of the cabinet.

I was "happy" to do it, what difference is the nature of employment?

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

Of course but in Dublin it's not as simple as that, lower-paid workers have a hard time in Dublin.

It's a bit of a pointless argument really as every urban location has to have a huge amount of staff who are modestly paid. I do think this idea that someone can only live in the part of Dublin they grew up in is nonsense and a bit entitled on the other hand saying move to Cavan is equally as nonsensical.

Cavan was an example.
It's not "move to cavan" , it's "move to where you can afford". That could be within a dublin postal code for instance.

FileNotFound

Shelga wrote: »

Let me guess, you drove? So all the nurses should be happy with a 200km round trip on the already congested M3 to go do a 10 hour shift in a covid ward? That's going to cost them €4-500 a month in fuel and tolls, and add (being generous) 15-20 hours to their week, every week.

It's just as well you're not in politics if your answer to these questions is to shrug and say "What do you expect?"

I don't think we should just abandon the idea of ever trying to make anything better for the people of the country, because that's just the system and, well, tough.

I just see no innovative ideas from the weak and mediocre members of the cabinet.

In fairness I am not a nurse but spent years driving 180km a day round trip to work.

I think the solution is rent is supported for those under a certain income - above the threshhold is much more difficult.

Long term rental is how many nations have gone - I have yet to see a real alternative with the situation only going 1 way.

If there were 20yr rental agreements would that be an acceptable path for you? Or is ownership everything?

In London one of the lads bought half a house and some company essentially owns the other half, not sure if this could be an option?

fliball123

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Would be nice if both you and the lower paid folk could afford to live there though

They can I put up a calc that they can anyone under the AIW can

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

Of course but in Dublin it's not as simple as that, lower-paid workers have a hard time in Dublin.

It's a bit of a pointless argument really as every urban location has to have a huge amount of staff who are modestly paid. I do think this idea that someone can only live in the part of Dublin they grew up in is nonsense and a bit entitled on the other hand saying move to Cavan is equally as nonsensical.

Look at my calcs low paid (anyone on under the AIW) can afford to live in Dublin tackle the figures I have put up otherwise the whole people on low wage cant afford to live in Dublin is nonsense

JimmyVik

Shelga wrote: »

Listen, I'm not expecting magic solutions. What really gets to me now is that I would have been able to buy a property at a somewhat reasonable price this time last year, based on my current salary and financial position.

Now, because of the pandemic and panic buying, with construction halted for months and months, with no indication from government about when viewings will recommence, I cannot.

I'm frustrated that what was a very tough situation, in 2019/early 2020, is now dire, for huge amounts of people.

Ask the government how many of these houses they bought in the last year themselves.
Also ask them how many deals they have made with REITS.
Its the councils outbidding normal house buyers that is the problem.
Creates more scarcity and drives up the cost of the houses.
If the councils werent buying up the stock, there would be plenty left for normal buyers to buy.

The Student

Shelga wrote: »

Let me guess, you drove? So all the nurses should be happy with a 200km round trip on the already congested M3 to go do a 10 hour shift in a covid ward? That's going to cost them €4-500 a month in fuel and tolls, and add (being generous) 15-20 hours to their week, every week.

It's just as well you're not in politics if your answer to these questions is to shrug and say "What do you expect?"

I don't think we should just abandon the idea of ever trying to make anything better for the people of the country, because that's just the system and, well, tough.

I just see no innovative ideas from the weak and mediocre members of the cabinet.

We have a finite amount of land in the cities to build on. Everybody says we should build up but no one wants anything high rise beside them.

Social tenants want to be housed in cities where they grew up yet those who needed to go into the cities to work can't afford to buy where they work because the limited accommodation is used to house some who have no need to be housed in cities other than wanting to be there rather than needing to be there (ie workers who work in the cities).

So how do you resolve this. Have a fairer way of deciding who is housed where? No politician will suggest the above as they want to be re elected? By contracting the housing situation to the private sector then the State can blame the private sector on everything.

We have a ridiculous Part V requirement in our planning laws that states 20% of all new housing developments should go to social housing. So we have some people (not all) not working living in apartments valued at over €500k with all of the amenities on site (gym & gated community) while we have people having to travel to work earning a wage who could never in their wildest dreams ever afford an apartment like this.

So yes the system is flawed but nobody is willing to call it out.

FileNotFound

The Student wrote: »

We have a finite amount of land in the cities to build on. Everybody says we should build up but no one wants anything high rise beside them.

Social tenants want to be housed in cities where they grew up yet those who needed to go into the cities to work can't afford to buy where they work because the limited accommodation is used to house some who have no need to be housed in cities other than wanting to be there rather than needing to be there (ie workers who work in the cities).

So how do you resolve this. Have a fairer way of deciding who is housed where? No politician will suggest the above as they want to be re elected? By contracting the housing situation to the private sector then the State can blame the private sector on everything.

We have a ridiculous Part V requirement in our planning laws that states 20% of all new housing developments should go to social housing. So we have some people (not all) not working living in apartments valued at over €500k with all of the amenities on site (gym & gated community) while we have people having to travel to work earning a wage who could never in their wildest dreams ever afford an apartment like this.

So yes the system is flawed but nobody is willing to call it out.

Valid Post alright - this and the absorption of new properties for short term rental is exacerbating the current situation.

mariaalice

FileNotFound wrote: »

In fairness I am not a nurse but spent years driving 180km a day round trip to work.

I think the solution is rent is supported for those under a certain income - above the threshhold is much more difficult.

Long term rental is how many nations have gone - I have yet to see a real alternative with the situation only going 1 way.

If there were 20yr rental agreements would that be an acceptable path for you? Or is ownership everything?

In London, one of the lads bought half a house and some company essentially owns the other half, not sure if this could be an option?

Housing association social housing is a form of long term rent model housing but its the fact that its taxpayer subsided is an issue for some posters, and they believe taxpayer subsided housing associations are in computation with them for a scarce resource so they blame the social housing recipient and feel other are getting some advantage over them.

mariaalice

fliball123 wrote: »

OK so after tax this person comes out with 2080 (using pwc take home pay calc)


They also get 250 a month in maintenance, if they have one kid they get childrens allowance of 140 a week so 560 a month. Then this girl is also under the rate (under 35k in Dublin) where she can apply for and get HAP so in Dublin this is 1250 a month. So all together this girl has a spending capacity of 4140 a month.

So to live you need to eat, heat, elecy, broadband, sky and living going for a pint even enough there for a holiday if they budget.

600 Eating a month should be about (I am married 2 kids and get a weekly shop for under 150) so 1 Adult 1 kid should easily be able to do this.
100 Elecy/heat
100 broadband/sky/netflix (whatever floats your boat)
150 on train/bus for work (this can also be offset with your employer with certain government schemes)
1000 for their own childcare??
190 for beers, clothes, holidays etc.

Comes to about 2140

So she is left with 2k to rent

If you look at daft there are 1845 properties available for under 2000 a month in Dublin

take home calc
https://www.pwc.ie/issues/budget-2021/income-tax-calculator.html


HAP payments and rates
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

How much is A child care costs?

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

How much is A child care costs?

They have budgeted 1k per month.

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

How much is A child care costs?

I put 1k down for this as part of their outgoings? Also there are government subsidies for childcare and at 5 they go to school so the cost of childcare gets less as the kid gets older

mariaalice

ELM327 wrote: »

They have budgeted 1k per month.

if they have one kid they get childrens allowance of 140 a week so 560 a month.

Its 140K a month

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html#

The Student

mariaalice wrote: »

Housing association social housing is a form of long term rent model housing but its the fact that its taxpayer subsided is an issue for some posters, and they believe taxpayer subsided housing associations are in computation with them for a scarce resource so they blame the social housing recipient and feel other are getting some advantage over them.

I dont think the subsidisation is the issue. The issue is the provision of property in high demand areas the location of which would be better utilised for those who have to commute to get to work.

rightmove

slipperyox wrote: »

3) Every person in ireland is only allowed to own 2 houses.

.

Whilst I see where you are going most of the small LL who left or are leaving the market had only 1 other property and this accounted for the majority of LL. Alot of good stats put up on this site over the years confirmed this.

Most of the ppl I know who own other property generally have only one and when there is a tenant issue they have to pay the mortgage if the tenant decides not too.

If a couple own 2 houses each ...thats 4 so ppl will find ways around this anyhow.

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

if they have one kid they get childrens allowance of 140 a week so 560 a month.

Its 140K a month

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html#

Yeap your right sorry about that I miscalculated. So your down 420 on my figures. So we had 190 built in for extra stuff so even at a rent point of 1700 a month there are still 1113 properties for rent in Dublin at this price and under, this does not take into account shared accommodation either.

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

if they have one kid they get childrens allowance of 140 a week so 560 a month.

Its 140K a month

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html#

What are you on about now?
He budgeted 1k per month for childcare already.

fliball123

ELM327 wrote: »

What are you on about now?
He budgeted 1k per month for childcare already.

NO they are right children's allowance is paid monthly I put in a weekly figure but there are still plenty of accommodation to rent well over 1k available properties in Dublin alone for a price point they could afford and not including any house shares.

ELM327

fliball123 wrote: »

NO they are right children's allowance is paid monthly I put in a weekly figure but there are still plenty of accommodation to rent well over 1k available properties in Dublin alone for a price point they could afford and not including any house shares.

Ok.


I see what you said after my post, makes sense, changes to €1700 or so p/m

fliball123

ELM327 wrote: »

Ok.


I see what you said after my post, makes sense, changes to €1700 or so p/m

If I was this person (Person A) I would rent a house with 3/4 beds there are a few of them around in Dublin and I would rent out 1 or 2 rooms, you would then have a room for yourself and your kid and be able to earn 400 - 1000 depending on where you rented for the rent coming in and all tax free of course due to the rent a room allowance.

slipperyox

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How many people do you think there are working in Clúid, Respond, Tuath, etc

you mean a consortium?
Its irrelevant.

Limited ownership to two houses per person, and the middleman disappears