Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

ACitizenErased

Strazdas wrote: »

We would deal with that when we come to it. As some have said, reserving the best vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna for healthy young people in their 20s and 30s wouldn't make much sense either. There is a strong logic to people in their 50s getting them (alongside J & J).

That causes a delay. You'll end up with J&J left over, not able to be used, while waiting for enough Pfizer deliveries to catch up.

ACitizenErased

Turtwig wrote: »

The treatment, prognosis and timeliness of intervention required for one is markedly different to the other.

You said one is treatable. Both are treatable.

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

How does this work ethically? As I understand it a vulnerable population is broadly one where there is felt to be a large risk they don't attend the second dose of the other vaccines.

Do you get put into a particular group by someone and told you are getting that vaccine which NIAC says shouldn't be given to other under-50 year olds because they think you won't attend for a second vaccination?

That vulnerable group is largely Travellers, Roma and the homeless. They number about 40,000, which we will have shortly in J&J vaccines.

Miike

Turtwig wrote: »

I was fearful they'd go with 60 and not allow any exceptions for the various community groups. It goes to show how low my expectations were that I was actually, sort of, pleasantly surprised they went with 50 and made provision for the various minority groups that HIQA wanted the vaccine reserved for.

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

Polar101

Might be a good idea to wait for the actual announcement of the NIAC J&J decision, too.

Stheno

Miike wrote: »

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

RTE News
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0426/1212222-niac/

However, it could also be used for younger people if there is no option of another vaccine, and for those who live in hard to reach communities.

Think hard to reach communities is minority groups?

is_that_so

Miike wrote: »

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

Mentioned in there - a HIQA report and NIAC agreed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/niac-vaccine-recommendations-5397171-Mar2021/

Stheno

Polar101 wrote: »

Might be a good idea to wait for the actual announcement of the NIAC J&J decision, too.

Well Tony H has to rubber stamp it

Turtwig

Miike wrote: »

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

Yeah sure
*brain: has to scramble for links on phone ughh*

Stheno wrote: »

RTE News
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0426/1212222-niac/


Think hard to reach communities is minority groups?

is_that_so wrote: »

Mentioned in there - a HIQA report and NIAC agreed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/niac-vaccine-recommendations-5397171-Mar2021/

You guys are the bestest.

KrustyUCC

Stheno wrote: »

Well Tony H has to rubber stamp it

True but he won't go against NIAC

castletownman

Question: I'm 33 with no underlying conditions. Assuming this J+J age restriction will be rubber-stamped, what order will the various age groups be rolled out now with the other vaccines?

I am guessing after the over 60s are done, they will do 40-49, then 30-39 etc.? With the over-50s done concurrently with J+J. Just curious whether I have suddenly moved up the list, but happy enough to bide my time anyway.

Bit cynical

is_that_so wrote: »

That vulnerable group is largely Travellers, Roma and the homeless. They number about 40,000, which we will have shortly in J&J vaccines.

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

Stheno

Bit cynical wrote: »

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

No second dose needed, so no risk of them not turning up for the second dose

Zhane

Bit cynical wrote: »

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

It’s one dose, which means they only have to show up once and not being chased down for the second dose as they might be worried they won’t show up.

JPup

Bit cynical wrote: »

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

One and done. They may not be easy to reach for a second dose.

Also can be more easily transported and stored. Harder to get homeless to attend mass vaccination centres. This way, nurses could visit homeless shelters and vaccinate there.

Miike

Stheno wrote: »

RTE News
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0426/1212222-niac/


Think hard to reach communities is minority groups?

I would imagine so! I must have had a cached version of that page because I wasn't seeing it on my phone, but I can see it on my PC!

is_that_so wrote: »

Mentioned in there - a HIQA report and NIAC agreed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/niac-vaccine-recommendations-5397171-Mar2021/

I saw that report by HIQA and I was hoping that it would be 'honored' but I didn't see mention of it in the RTE article.

Turtwig wrote: »

Yeah sure
*brain: has to scramble for links on phone ughh*



You guys are the bestest.

Thank you all

Hurrache

Level 42 wrote: »

This is utter madness restricting it to 50 plus.who does this butler think she is

banana republic

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You said one is treatable. Both are treatable.

I'm not actually sure what we're disagreeing with or agreeing with here.

Godot.

Terrible decision regarding J&J regarding restricting J&J to over 50's imo. Holohan needs to give it the green light next? Taking them a while to rubber stamp one of the worst possible decisions, isn't it? How long until we actually start jabbing with it? Some European countries were using it the very next day after the EMA issued their announcement.

Stheno

Godot. wrote: »

Terrible decision regarding J&J regarding restricting J&J to over 50's imo. Holohan needs to give it the green light next? Taking them a while to rubber stamp one of the worst possible decisions, isn't it? How long until we actually start jabbing with it? Some European countries were using it the very next day after the EMA issued their announcement.

Think we have either 14 or 40k doses in storage

Aidric

What is this NIAC recommendation based on? Given that the FDA and EMA have lifted their pause with the condition of an additional warning of rare clotting events in young women.

hmmm

Hurrache wrote: »

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

Unless we have data which is not available to other regulators who have not imposed an age restriction, there's nothing wrong on a discussion forum asking why the recommendation in Ireland is different. Particularly considering there are such high stakes - 25% of people are unemployed, there are lots of business hoping for a reopening during Summer.

It'll be for the Government to explain their decision, I've no doubt they'll do a wonderful job.

odyssey06

Hurrache wrote: »

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

I guess our experts wouldnt be justifying their position if they came to the same conclusion as the EMA.

lucernarian

Hurrache wrote: »

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

Try and sell that line to a Traveller family, it's fine to give you this J&J vaccine but we think it's too risky to give it to 35 year old settled folk down the road.

If this age restriction is implemented, it will have severe ramifications for the rollout from both an epidemiological and political perspective.

Deathofcool

Irish times reporting that AZ will also be used for 50+ so that will help.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/niac-to-recommend-johnson-johnson-and-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines-for-over-50s-1.4547891?mode=amp

KrustyUCC

Deathofcool wrote: »

Irish times reporting that AZ will also be used for 50+ so that will help.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/niac-to-recommend-johnson-johnson-and-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines-for-over-50s-1.4547891?mode=amp

So J&J has less issues with clots than AZ but now they're going to be on a par?

Not sure that makes sense

The US is different, alternatives are being offered.

From the head of the CDC committee who approved resumption of J&J:

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine “can be reinstituted and should be reinstituted. I acknowledge, as does everyone else, that these events are rare, but serious,” Jose Romero, chair of the committee, said. “It is our responsibility as clinicians to make sure that women understand this risk and, when possible, that they have an alternative at the same site that you’re administering the vaccine.”

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/23/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots/

In practice, even if an alternative was not available at the same site, it would be easy to source one elsewhere.

Myramar

Aidric wrote: »

What is this NIAC recommendation based on? Given that the FDA and EMA have lifted their pause with the condition of an additional warning of rare clotting events in young women.

It is based on the fact that they are paid to give advice to government so Government can distance themselves from the decision and claim it is based on science.


They made a very restricitive decision on AZ which was based more on logistics.
Inventory and supplies of AZ in coming weeks were about equal to the number of 60-69 year olds that needed to be vaccinated. To avoid problems with vaccine hesitancy where younger people (like teachers and guards for example ) who were told that the risks of dying from Covid were very low for under 60s and these
might question whether the risk was worth it. NIAC decided to limit it to the 60-69 year olds who have no choice but to accept the risk.


A few days later the same issues of clotting were identified with the J&J Vaccine and now the numbers don't add up. There are not enough 60-69 year olds to use up the supplies of both AZ and J&J.


Problem was that they had to come up with a reason why they had to differentiate between the two vaccines and keep government happy so they get to continue to get paid!


Last week Martin and Varadkar made it abundantly clear to NIAC theat they wanted "independant" advice that was not the same as that they had received for AZ.


Today NIAC have complied by "Leaking" their advice.


But please be assured - It's all based on Science - We are always following the Science.

titan18

Deathofcool wrote: »

Irish times reporting that AZ will also be used for 50+ so that will help.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/niac-to-recommend-johnson-johnson-and-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines-for-over-50s-1.4547891?mode=amp

What's that a week or so since they recommended over 60s. I'm sure they got a huge pile of more information to change that.

Szero

Serious question ... Should we now jump straight to those aged 49 and below with Pfizer and Moderna if we want to make best use?