Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

SJFly

I think a good way to use up the j&j vaccines (and potentially excess az) would be to organise a parallel rollout, perhaps through the pharmacy network, where people could sign up voluntarily, but ahead of time. So, e.g., when 40+ are being vaccinated in the MVC, 30+ could sign up at pharmacies. Not sure how high the uptake would be, but it would potentially allow the MVCs to go ahead and vaccinate 50 and 60+ with whatever is available, without worrying about excess stocks at the end.
I know it probably won't be allowed, but if people are willing and aware of the risks, I think it is wrong to withhold the vaccines.

is_that_so

SJFly wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/double-boost-for-ireland-s-vaccine-rollout-j-j-use-approved-and-astrazeneca-restrictions-eased-1.4548432

Interesting take by the Irish Times. Interpreting the NIAC decision as a double boost to he vaccine rollout.

Independent have done the same but do include the 40K this month and the 132K next month for J&J. That first 40K is likely to be earmarked to go to minority groups anyway. A change in AZ may make more of a difference but it's AZ so who really knows.

is_that_so

Russman wrote: »

True but at the same time, it would depend on how govt “sells” it. I totally agree the programme should be moving down the age cohorts, the virus is progressively more deadly the older you are, after all.
However, given the likely dates for full protection - say a 50 something getting J&J in mid June would be fully protected by the end of June, and a 40 something getting Pfizer in mid May would also only be fully protected by the end of June too, with the second dose - is something govt could highlight, along with the benefits of only having to get one jab. That, along with the message that “if we don’t do it this way, we’ll end up binning half a million J&J shots, and taking much longer” would get it over the line I think. The plan was always a “live” document and subject to change.
Now, on one hand I don’t really agree with this, there’s something inherently wrong imo in the 50s & 60s being only given the vaccines that are perceived (rightly or wrongly) as being inferior, for a virus that’s worse for older people.
On the other hand, I’m not on NIAC or privy to the data they have, and if the medical advice is what is being speculated re the 50s, then it’s just something we have to deal with. I’m not even sure reducing the AZ restriction to 50 would help much, if you’re 58 you’d be p1ssed that you might get AZ in mid May and have to wait 12 weeks for dose two, while a 52 year old might get J&J late May and be done with it.
Then again a vaccination programme is mostly about the herd rather than the individual, so what best for the herd ? I’d hate to be on the HSE planning team right now, that’s for sure ! It’ll be bin J&J and take longer, or else p1ss off the 50-59 age cohort but stay on target.

J&J are delivering 132k in May, the 50-59 age group is about 600K so at most 25% will be done by the end of May via J&J.

is_that_so

timsey tiger wrote: »

people in their 60s got vaccinated before some in their 70s. This wouldn't be any different. It is about getting everybody done as quickly as possible, not sticking to some arbitrary order for the sake of it.

70s are largely GP so are on a separate schedule, 60s and below are the MVCs who are supposed to be in order of age. Something about fairness and risk I believe. Our advice now means we effectively lose access to two vaccines by the end of May. That is an odd way to do things as quickly as possible.

Supercell

Have to say that as a 50 year old I'm concerned that it seems I am going to have to take the worst possible vaccine available in terms of effectiveness. I was very much a pro vaxxer previously, however I am leaning towards waiting it out now and seeing if something better becomes available later on in the summer. Also some reports out of the US on severe reactions to this one have me nervous also.

Sofa King Great

Has there been any further mention of extending the time between doses for Pfizer? Wasn't that supposed to be decided by NIAC as part of their review on J&J?

Valhallapt

If they use AZ and J&J exclusively for 50-69. Will they kick off a parallel cohort of 49 and under using Pfizer?

is_that_so

Supercell wrote: »

Have to say that as a 50 year old I'm concerned that it seems I am going to have to take the worst possible vaccine available in terms of effectiveness. I was very much a pro vaxxer previously, however I am leaning towards waiting it out now and seeing if something better becomes available later on in the summer. Also some reports out of the US on severe reactions to this one have me nervous also.

AZ is more likely for most on account of the delivery levels of J&J in May although you could be queueing with the 20 somethings in June while they get their Pfizer!

is_that_so

Valhallapt wrote: »

If they use AZ and J&J exclusively for 50-69. Will they kick off a parallel cohort of 49 and under using Pfizer?

They'll have have to kick it off very soon after to get to 80% in June and we can probably expect some 40 somethings being done well in advance of 50 year olds. IMO July may now be that date because of these changes.

Happydays2020

nibtrix wrote: »

They are talking about skipping ahead to 40s while 50s wait for the supply of J&J not being palatable.

Yep I do not think that is palatable either. Running 40 - 50 with Pfizer and 50 - 60 with AZ in parallel would be a different matter.

Panrich

is_that_so wrote: »

AZ is more likely for most on account of the delivery levels of J&J in May although you could be queueing with the 20 somethings in June while they get their Pfizer!

And we’ll be queueing on our own in September for the second dose. It looks like we’ve drawn the short straw in the vaccine lottery. As others have said it’s not the individual that counts though. Still I will hate another period of time working from home while all my colleagues are back to normal.

km79

Portal open for 60 year olds today. If it keeps going down year a day I’ll be registering in just over two weeks

is_that_so

Panrich wrote: »

And we’ll be queueing on our own in September for the second dose. It looks like we’ve drawn the short straw in the vaccine lottery. As others have said it’s not the individual that counts though. Still I will hate another period of time working from home while all my colleagues are back to normal.

Sure, it is the group but you've one part of the programme , the HSE, doing all they can to make it fair and another, NIAC, resetting their own guidance and potentially disrupting that plan. Optics and order of vaccination play a part in this too.

Pretzill

Supercell wrote: »

Have to say that as a 50 year old I'm concerned that it seems I am going to have to take the worst possible vaccine available in terms of effectiveness. I was very much a pro vaxxer previously, however I am leaning towards waiting it out now and seeing if something better becomes available later on in the summer. Also some reports out of the US on severe reactions to this one have me nervous also.

I'm also in this age group and I always thought it would be J & J by the time the got around to me - Any vaccine is better than none and all have side effects they are looking into the bioanteq one being linked to heart issues in Germany (sorry no link) Also a one shot is very acceptable to me they wouldn't have it on the market if it wasn inferior they just have to check everything.

Supercell

I do agree any vaccine is better than none - if no others are available. However 20 somethings getting a vaccine with 95% efficacy at the same time as 50+ year olds getting one with mid 60's seems unfair to me. I'd rather wait until more Phizer/Moderna became available as a choice than having to go with the worst performer or possibly the second worst AZ with a 12 week wait for both doses.

funnydoggy

I just want to see the economy going and society getting back to normality. My GF and mammydoggy are getting their vaccine today, and by the end of the week those closest to me will have had their first shot (the vulnerable people).

They're asking if I'm going mad that I will be another while, but tbh I'm not. I have been working since society opened back up post lockdown 1 and all throughout, until this one. The fear is totally gone, replaced with a bit of cop on.

Just get the vaccines in. It's time for either the NIAC to stop pissing about with these age restrictions, or for the HSE to defer to EMA advice. The sooner we get the vaccines sorted, the sooner we get out of this mess.

dominatinMC

Supercell wrote: »

I do agree any vaccine is better than none - if no others are available. However 20 somethings getting a vaccine with 95% efficacy at the same time as 50+ year olds getting one with mid 60's seems unfair to me. I'd rather wait until more Phizer/Moderna became available as a choice than having to go with the worst performer or possibly the second worst AZ with a 12 week wait for both doses.

Not aiming this at you OP, but more in general.
All this talk of efficacy and vaccine selection is bloody ridiculous. Reeks of privilage, and is an issue excaerbated by the media - who are basically playing vaccines off against each other. From what I have seen, all vaccines (AZ, BioNTech, Moderna, J&J) are almost 100% effective at preventing severe illness and/or death against the disease. Isn't that the goal here? Added bonus if they prevent symptomatic infection and/or transmission, but don't let that distract from the facts that all vaccines do as they say on the tin.

If we are looking for perfection, we will never get out of this mess.

adam240610

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Are you sure? In India they gave out millions of domestically produced AZ vaccines (look at their vaccination graph going vertical) yet are in absolute disaster now wouldn’t be surprised if AZ is useless against this variant, which doesn’t bode well for those took it.

You do realise how big india is and how few vaccines they have given out, combined with the religious festivals and political rallies... No variant anywhere has any evidence that it beats the vaccines

dominatinMC

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Are you sure? In India they gave out millions of domestically produced AZ vaccines (look at their vaccination graph going vertical) yet are in absolute disaster now wouldn’t be surprised if AZ is useless against this variant, which doesn’t bode well for those took it.

I don't know, maybe it's more to do with the fact that India has a population of over a billion but have only administered ~170 million vaccines

Klonker

Strazdas wrote: »

I can't see imagine any scenario where it would be acceptable for hundreds of thousands of people in their 50s to be still waiting for a vaccine in mid June (nearly two months away from now), when the whole idea of the programme is that it moves down through the age cohorts : at that stage you would nearly see people in their twenties and teens being vaccinated ahead of them.

They would rightly be questioning what was going on and why it had been deemed they could receive J & J, but nothing else.

I don't know of it wouldn't be acceptable but it is rather ironic that NIAC were the ones who advised the roleout priority to change from profession based more ps to age based. This is what the teachers were complaining about last month. Now these older more vulnerable people they previously wanted to get the vaccine earlier will have to wait for J&J and AZ supplies into late June and possible July. NIAC are contradicting themselves with this.

Cork2021

Why are the papers saying this is a positive? They surely know that J&J won’t get fully delivered until middle to late June?
Only 170k doses between now and end of May.....
also they really need to set out that this is the last change to AZ and J&J and start opening up the portals for Pfizer and moderna for the under 50’s space out the interval by two works get as many as them done as possible before end of June!
Plough on!!

vienne86

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Are you sure? In India they gave out millions of domestically produced AZ vaccines (look at their vaccination graph going vertical) yet are in absolute disaster now wouldn’t be surprised if AZ is useless against this variant, which doesn’t bode well for those took it.

Dr Moore from UCC was just on Morning Ireland there pointing out that these efficacy figures came from trials, but so far all vaccines seem about equally effective in the rollouts. First World problem saying I want to choose my own vaccine.

duffman13

Cork2021 wrote: »

Why are the papers saying this is a positive? They surely know that J&J won’t get fully delivered until middle to late June?
Only 170k doses between now and end of May.....
also they really need to set out that this is the last change to AZ and J&J and start opening up the portals for Pfizer and moderna for the under 50’s space out the interval by two works get as many as them done as possible before end of June!
Plough on!!

I think the wording on the J&J recommendation is going to be interesting to analyse to be honest. J&J might see more daylight than just the over 50s and hopefully so. I would imagine the media have an idea on this hence reporting it as a positive

stephenjmcd

Cork2021 wrote: »

Why are the papers saying this is a positive? They surely know that J&J won’t get fully delivered until middle to late June?
Only 170k doses between now and end of May.....
also they really need to set out that this is the last change to AZ and J&J and start opening up the portals for Pfizer and moderna for the under 50’s space out the interval by two works get as many as them done as possible before end of June!
Plough on!!

Nobody can say its the last change to AZ or J&J , as more data comes in limits could well change, its just how it works, as you learn more you can become more confident in potentially dropping the age limit a little again. I would suspect J&J will be used widely enough in u50s to be perfectly honest.

Why are the papers saying its positive? Because it really doesn't make any difference in the timelines of the rollout and the ultimate end goal.

is_that_so

Klonker wrote: »

I don't know of it wouldn't be acceptable but it is rather ironic that NIAC were the ones who advised the roleout priority to change from profession based more ps to age based. This is what the teachers were complaining about last month. Now these older more vulnerable people they previously wanted to get the vaccine earlier will have to wait for J&J and AZ supplies into late June and possible July. NIAC are contradicting themselves with this.

It is interesting to note how the risk of AZ to a slightly younger cohort has suddenly lessened over the last few days. Clearly nothing to do with the more limited J&J supplies of course.

Dempo1

Becoming more complicated weekly. Is the J&J vacinne restricted in the US as is being suggested here to 50 and older? NIAC seem also to be revising recommendations on AZ made less than a few weeks ago. Whilst appreciating new data coming in regularly, seems quite odd usage recommendations changing all the time.

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Nobody can say its the last change to AZ or J&J , as more data comes in limits could well change, its just how it works, as you learn more you can become more confident in potentially dropping the age limit a little again. I would suspect J&J will be used widely enough in u50s to be perfectly honest.

Why are the papers saying its positive? Because it really doesn't make any difference in the timelines of the rollout and the ultimate end goal.

For a body overflowing with expertise it's a pretty numpty piece of advice on J&J. You couldn't legally sell any product with that set of instructions or guidelines.

Cork2021

is_that_so wrote: »

For a body overflowing with expertise it's a pretty numpty piece of advice on J&J. You couldn't legally sell any product with that set of instructions or guidelines.

It’s poor advice driven by an abundance of caution! But you yet you’ve Germany and USA saying no restrictions on it!

is_that_so

Dempo1 wrote: »

Becoming more complicated weekly. Is the J&J vacinne restricted in the US as is being suggested here to 50 and older? NIAC seem also to be revising recommendations on AZ made less than a few weeks ago. Whilst appreciating new data coming in regularly, seems quite odd usage recommendations changing all the time.

Taking a cynical look at this, it seems that they recognise the possible risk to the schedule from the J&J decision and have rejigged the AZ advice to compensate and to make sure that they don't get blamed for dates going out.

Cork2021

is_that_so wrote: »

Taking a cynical look at this, it seems that they recognise the possible risk to the schedule from the J&J decision and have rejigged the AZ advice to compensate and to make sure that they don't get blamed for dates going out.

But that’s just stupid in my opinion why not have had AZ for over 50’s in the first place after the last decision? Just sounds to me as if they’re getting advice from somewhere other then the EMA, FDA! This is me being cynical and not liking Tony H being back as well!