Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Strazdas

titan18 wrote: »

It would seem very unfair if you were telling 60-69 just AZ for you and nothing else but allow 50-59 get Pfizer when they have the same vaccines available to them as 60-69.

Should split the groups imo and once groups 4 and 7 are done (probably another 3-4 weeks anyway), move on to 40-49 then with them and have 50-69 as a separate group. It likely means a 59 year is getting a vaccine sooner than original plan and a 50 year old is waiting a bit longer but so be it.

Otherwise you need to allow for Pfizer being given to all from 50-69 and we end up with unused vaccines in June and it takes us longer to get everyone vaccinated.

I agree on the unfairness, but targeting 600k people with one solitary vaccine when four are available could become extremely problematic - especially as it's going to take a good while for that solitary vaccine to get going with deliveries (and any subsequent problems with delivery of that vaccine would immediately cause chaos).

PixieValentine

I’m so sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this question, or if it’s been ages back in the thread, but I’ve sort of stopped reading along religiously with the covid threads and more been dipping in and out for the old mental health’s sake, so, it’s ok if I please ask, what does one do in the case of a family member who is around the age to be registering around now for the vaccine, but doesn’t want AZ?

I want to stress- she’s not anti vaxx in the slightest. Just, unfortunately, very very nervous about AZ. (Mind you, with the latest news about the clotting problems, I worry she might feel the same nerves about J&J, sigh. We haven’t had that conversation yet though.) She knows this means waiting a while longer, with the whole back of the queue thing, and she’s actually ok with that. She doesn’t expect to just be sailing in there and getting to have it whenever she wants, she's fine with waiting longer. I’ve tried to talk to her about how for her age the risk is so different, she should really get whatever one she can as soon as she can, etc, etc, but haven’t had much luck there so far, and I don’t really know that I will have any, in changing her mind. So anyway, sorry for rambling, I guess my question is just, should I say to her still to register around now anyway, even if she might not end up getting vaccinated for a while? Is that how they're supposed to do it, just so she’s on a list with someone, somewhere, as someone who needs to get one at some stage? Or would she be better off waiting to register and not take any slot from someone who will go off and get vaccinated tomorrow with AZ if they can!

I’m not sure how you’re supposed to handle that situation- my apologies again if this has been addressed loads of times already, or if it's an incredibly stupid question. I just don't want to be advising her to register if that's going to mess up any systems for anyone anywhere, but obviously, wouldn't like to think of her falling through any cracks by not being on any list at any stage.

Zipppy

is_that_so wrote: »

If you're in group 4 or 7 that shouldn't apply to you. Group 4 seem to be getting Pfizer.

That could change after todays announcement....

Zipppy

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Welcome to Ireland....my mom got AZ last week and her brother told her he got his the week before.

He said "i got the better one - the Pfizer"

Hardly surprising TBH, there's a lot of that going around. You'd be very naïve to think otherwise.

but it is better..and safer....

titan18

Strazdas wrote: »

I agree on the unfairness, but targeting 600k people with one solitary vaccine when four are available could become extremely problematic - especially as it's going to take a good while for that solitary vaccine to get going with deliveries (and any subsequent problems with delivery of that vaccine would immediately cause chaos).

It'd be two vaccines though, with AZ too. That should mean everyone in those age groups who doesn't want to wait for Pfizer likely had a vaccine by mid June imo is supply is decent (big if of course there). It'll take them longer to be fully vaccinated of course due to the AZ gap but it'll be a good start.

Pfizer and Moderna (all 10 of them we've gotten) can be used on the other age groups and vulnerable groups.

You likely have 40-49 year olds being vaccinated before people between 50-55 I'd say but by mid June, I'd imagine all of those groups will have one dose and we're starting on 30-39 then.

If we go the other way, I reckon we delay the 30-39 and under groups by a week or so as we use Pfizer on 50-69.

I'd rather delay one particular age group by a small bit over delaying the whole groups.

Strazdas

PixieValentine wrote: »

I’m so sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this question, or if it’s been ages back in the thread, but I’ve sort of stopped reading along religiously with the covid threads and more been dipping in and out for the old mental health’s sake, so, it’s ok if I please ask, what does one do in the case of a family member who is around the age to be registering around now for the vaccine, but doesn’t want AZ?

I want to stress- she’s not anti vaxx in the slightest. Just, unfortunately, very very nervous about AZ. (Mind you, with the latest news about the clotting problems, I worry she might feel the same nerves about J&J, sigh. We haven’t had that conversation yet though.) She knows this means waiting a while longer, with the whole back of the queue thing, and she’s actually ok with that. She doesn’t expect to just be sailing in there and getting to have it whenever she wants, she's fine with waiting longer. I’ve tried to talk to her about how for her age the risk is so different, she should really get whatever one she can as soon as she can, etc, etc, but haven’t had much luck there so far, and I don’t really know that I will have any, in changing her mind. So anyway, sorry for rambling, I guess my question is just, should I say to her still to register around now anyway, even if she might not end up getting vaccinated for a while? Is that how they're supposed to do it, just so she’s on a list with someone, somewhere, as someone who needs to get one at some stage? Or would she be better off waiting to register and not take any slot from someone who will go off and get vaccinated tomorrow with AZ if they can!

I’m not sure how you’re supposed to handle that situation- my apologies again if this has been addressed loads of times already, or if it's an incredibly stupid question. I just don't want to be advising her to register if that's going to mess up any systems for anyone anywhere, but obviously, wouldn't like to think of her falling through any cracks by not being on any list at any stage.

In theory, she should be able to register on the portal at any point this summer or even early autumn and get an appointment relatively quickly afterwards, so that in itself is not an issue (she may have had good reasons for not being able to register a couple of months earlier). But having said that, if they offered her an AZ at that point, she'd be in a spot of bother I guess and back to square one.

is_that_so

Zipppy wrote: »

That could change after todays announcement....

Perhaps. It's about your level of risk and all I can go on are the Group 4 people I know and what they got.

Gile_na_gile

PixieValentine wrote: »

I’m not sure how you’re supposed to handle that situation- my apologies again if this has been addressed loads of times already, or if it's an incredibly stupid question. I just don't want to be advising her to register if that's going to mess up any systems for anyone anywhere, but obviously, wouldn't like to think of her falling through any cracks by not being on any list at any stage.

I have an uncle in the same situation and as he has a heart condition he was offered Pfizer.... Ultimately, it is an individual choice and there is little you can do other than continue to make the case. From an objective point of view, it is a bit Audi vs VW, or Apple vs Lenovo.



As an aside, the decisions and media spin on AZ & J&J from the States and the EU are negatively affecting people in India, such that vaccine hesitancy increased there before the current wave according to a Spanish medic talking to El Pais. We are exporting our first world problems...

stephenjmcd

Sunday:

First dose: 998,134 (+10,453)
Second dose: 399,927 (+1,855)
Total: 1,398,061 (+12,308)

7 days to Sunday was 189,602

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sunday:

First dose: 998,134 (+10,453)
Second dose: 399,927 (+1,855)
Total: 1,398,061 (+12,308)

7 days to Sunday was 189,602

That seems like biggest Sunday total yet?

Lucas Hood

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That seems like biggest Sunday total yet?

By some margin yes.
Highest Sunday before this was 5272 on 11 April.

Supercell

PhilOssophy wrote: »

People need to stop saying "least effective vaccine". That is based on a very limited clinical trial. People take a flu jab every winter which might be 40-50% effective.
The efficacy is based on a clinical trial. There are 3 key things which matter, does it prevent you getting it, does it prevent hospitalisation and death, and does it prevent you from spreading it. All are performing outstandingly well on all of these.

That may well be true but it isnt the whole picture.
Lots and lots of people that were never hospitalized but had relatively mild covid are suffering long term effects, and mild here is relative, it means not admitted to hospital, flu is no walk in the park either but most people are not hospitalised for that either.
So why are we prioritizing the higher risk cohorts with the lower efficacy vaccines for the sake of a few weeks and when hospital numbers are declining and the most vunerable already vaccinated to a greater extent?, we are over a year into this now remember.
I doubt most people offered Janssen or one or the mRNA vaccines would choose J&J though I think they should be given a choice of J&J sooner or wait a few more weeks for one of the the mRNA vaccines, i would choose to wait.
It may well turn out that long covid effects the mRNA vaccinated too, but with a 95% efficacy rate i'd wager there wil be far less than J&J, time will tell.

If the over 50's are treated like second rate citizans this time, i really hope we get a fairer shot when any booster vaccination comes around.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sunday:

First dose: 998,134 (+10,453)
Second dose: 399,927 (+1,855)
Total: 1,398,061 (+12,308)

7 days to Sunday was 189,602

Good to see. Hopefully get over 200k next week or this week ideally

sd1999

I think the problem with over 50s waiting for a Pfizer or Moderna is that in a few months time, they could still be offered AZ or J&J. Pfizer is seeking approval for kids as young as 11 so I imagine most of our Pfizer supplies will be going to the 11-15 group once the over 16s are finished. We don’t currently have a roadmap of what is going to happen once the adult population is finished so hoping for a Pfizer vaccine once it’s finished is a gamble. That being said, CureVac coming on stream could sort these issues out for over 50s but that is still an unknown quantity and can’t be forecasted for yet and may not be ready for a few months.

As I'm 60, qualified today to apply online. I have heard it doesn't take too long from that as they have the system running quite nicely now.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I'm 60, qualified today to apply online. I have heard it doesn't take too long from that as they have the system running quite nicely now.

Could take a while.

Registered my father last Monday when 65 opened and no appointment yet.

All depends on the nearest MVC, Vaccine delvieries, demographics of the area.

zebastein

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sunday:

First dose: 998,134 (+10,453)
Second dose: 399,927 (+1,855)
Total: 1,398,061 (+12,308)

7 days to Sunday was 189,602

So the million mark was not reached on Sunday as announced by Micheal Martin. :rolleyes:
Anyway, that was a really solid week!

hynesie08

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sunday:

First dose: 998,134 (+10,453)
Second dose: 399,927 (+1,855)
Total: 1,398,061 (+12,308)

7 days to Sunday was 189,602

Weren't we supposed to have hit 1m first doses on Sunday?

stephenjmcd

zebastein wrote: »

So the million mark was not reached on Sunday as announced by Micheal Martin. :rolleyes:

Could well have been, numbers may still be waiting to report. Numbers tend to be updated. Tomorrow's numbers could push Sunday past 1m first dose

TheDoctor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sunday:

First dose: 998,134 (+10,453)
Second dose: 399,927 (+1,855)
Total: 1,398,061 (+12,308)

7 days to Sunday was 189,602

WAIT A MINUTE

Martin said we hit 1 million first doses on Sunday!

stephenjmcd

TheDoctor wrote: »

WAIT A MINUTE

Martin said we hit 1 million first doses on Sunday!

As above

"Could well have been, numbers may still be waiting to report. Numbers tend to be updated. Tomorrow's numbers could push Sunday past 1m first dose"

iamwhoiam

Well I got AZ and am delighted to get any . As Prof Butler said the best vaccine is the one available and offered to you at the time . I was just pleased to know I can have a bit more confidence and meet my friends outdoors etc . If it was AZ offered then that was my best bet at the time .

sd1999

Supercell wrote: »

That may well be true but it isnt the whole picture.
Lots and lots of people that were never hospitalized but had relatively mild covid are suffering long term effects, and mild here is relative, it means not admitted to hospital, flu is no walk in the park either but most people are not hospitalised for that either.
So why are we prioritizing the higher risk cohorts with the lower efficacy vaccines for the sake of a few weeks and when hospital numbers are declining and the most vunerable already vaccinated to a greater extent?, we are over a year into this now remember.
I doubt most people offered Janssen or one or the mRNA vaccines would choose J&J though I think they should be given a choice of J&J sooner or wait a few more weeks for one of the the mRNA vaccines, i would choose to wait.
It may well turn out that long covid effects the mRNA vaccinated too, but with a 95% efficacy rate i'd wager there wil be far less than J&J, time will tell.

If the over 50's are treated like second rate citizans this time, i really hope we get a fairer shot when any booster vaccination comes around.

Vaccines have already been shown to alleviate at least some long covid symptoms after the first shot so I wouldn’t take it as a given that long covid is still possible once you’re vaccinated. Over 50s are lucky to be getting a vaccine as early as they are. The 18-30 cohort have to wait until the very end despite arguably sacrificing the most due to the pandemic (e.g. losing the most jobs, paying for college they can’t physically attend, bearing the brunt of the economic impact). I have many friends who would happily take any vaccine right now if they were offered one with no complaints. All the vaccines work. Before Pfizer and Moderna came along, AZ was being lauded as a massive success for achieving ~70% efficacy. Over 50s are not being treated like second class citizens. They are literally being prioritised for life saving vaccines against a deadly disease that is more likely to kill them than a younger person. I think it needs to be stated as well that we’re extremely lucky to have the luxury of four different vaccines when the most of the rest of world is stuck with one or maybe two.

is_that_so

TheDoctor wrote: »

WAIT A MINUTE

Martin said we hit 1 million first doses on Sunday!

You're picking him up over 2,000 jabs out of 1m?!

PixieValentine

Strazdas wrote: »

In theory, she should be able to register on the portal at any point this summer or even early autumn and get an appointment relatively quickly afterwards, so that in itself is not an issue (she may have had good reasons for not being able to register a couple of months earlier). But having said that, if they offered her an AZ at that point, she'd be in a spot of bother I guess and back to square one.

Yeah, I’m… not even sure what she’d do then. Though maybe if it’s a few months down the line, and lots of people her own age have already had it and hopefully are fine, maybe it might actually help her having just waited that little bit extra length of time and having seen that? I don’t know, I suppose THAT’S a bridge we’d have to cross if she comes to it! But anyway, great to know she can register at any stage- thank you so much. I was a bit worried that if she didn’t get herself registered as a certain age by a certain time it might cause problems for her getting on whatever list she needs to get on later, so I really appreciate the reassurance, thank you.

sekond

Does anyone have any idea how they handle people who are moving into an age bracket over the course of the year? Husband turns 50 in July. Obviously he'll take whatever he's given, and for other reasons he may end up as part of a group 7 cohort at the GP, but the J&J vaccine would be ideal for him in many ways - mostly around issues with needles/medical procedures that he is very embarrassed about, but can't seem to make any progress on - so only having to go through the process once would be huge benefit for him (and me in getting him through the process!).

PixieValentine

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

I have an uncle in the same situation and as he has a heart condition he was offered Pfizer.... Ultimately, it is an individual choice and there is little you can do other than continue to make the case. From an objective point of view, it is a bit Audi vs VW, or Apple vs Lenovo.



As an aside, the decisions and media spin on AZ & J&J from the States and the EU are negatively affecting people in India, such that vaccine hesitancy increased there before the current wave according to a Spanish medic talking to El Pais. We are exporting our first world problems...

Yeah, that’s pretty much my plan, is just to continue trying to talk to her about it. I’m not aware that she has any major factors like your uncle’s heart problem that might mean she would get definitely given Pfizer (at least not any time immediately) instead- though really glad to hear he got sorted! She is someone who does tend to get strong side effects from any medication of any kind, so I think that's contributing to her nerves, but I'm not sure that's something that would make any difference to this situation except for her own already strong AZ nervousness (which it's definitely not helping) if you know what I mean. Not sure what else I can do, other than, as you say, keep making the case for getting it- though of course, there’s every chance, as people are pointing out here, that she could wait months to get another one and even then, get offered AZ. As I’ve said above though, even if that ultimately is what ends up happening, MAYBE having had the few months extra of us gently pleading AZ’s case, coupled with hopefully having seen a large chunk of the country’s adults around her own age happily vaccinated with it and having had no major problems in the mean time (god I hope I’m not jinxing us now saying this !) might help.

hmmm

A small study, but hopefully good news that the Indian variant has only limited impact on vaccine effectiveness. "Most importantly the assurance of neutralization of B.1.617 variant with sera of BBV152 vaccinees and recovered COVID-19 cases sera will provide the much-needed boost to the COVID-19 vaccination program in India."

https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1386964482035965952

Gile_na_gile

PixieValentine wrote: »

Yeah, that’s pretty much my plan, is just to continue trying to talk to her about it. I’m not aware that she has any major factors like your uncle’s heart problem that might mean she would get definitely given Pfizer (at least not any time immediately) instead- though really glad to hear he got sorted! She is someone who does tend to get strong side effects from any medication of any kind, so I think that's contributing to her nerves, but I'm not sure that's something that would make any difference to this situation except for her own already strong AZ nervousness (which it's definitely not helping) if you know what I mean. Not sure what else I can do, other than, as you say, keep making the case for getting it- though of course, there’s every chance, as people are pointing out here, that she could wait months to get another one and even then, get offered AZ. As I’ve said above though, even if that ultimately is what ends up happening, MAYBE having had the few months extra of us gently pleading AZ’s case, coupled with hopefully having seen a large chunk of the country’s adults around her own age happily vaccinated with it and having had no major problems in the mean time (god I hope I’m not jinxing us now saying this !) might help.

I should have been clearer, sorry. My uncle was offered Pfizer a month ago before any of these adenovirus worries, and is still refusing any vaccine. He wouldn't know the difference between the two at all. The HSE have actually contacted him a few times to see if he has changed his mind, which seems nice of them. Being at the other end of the country, I haven't talked to him about it. Now it would be AZ he would be offered, but it makes no odds.

JTMan

The latest on Sputnik V ...

Merkel has said that the EMA has not yet received sufficient information about Russia's Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine to approve it.

Brazil also complained about a lack of data. A NY Times article today here states that the Brazil regulator has rejected the vaccine. Reasons given: "Data about the vaccine’s efficacy were “uncertain,” Gustavo Mendes Lima Santos, Anvisa’s manager of medicine and biological products, said in a lengthy presentation explaining the health authority’s decision. The presentation said that there were “crucial questions” that had gone unanswered".

As previously reported, Sputnik V is under EMA investigation for trial ethical breaches and under investigation for supplying doses to Slovakia of an inconsistent quality.