Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Chris_5339762

I think they'll do a "just in case" booster, but at the moment, all of the variants (all of them) are basically neutralised by all of the vaccines (they prevent you getting badly sick or being hospitalised or dieing).

A booster will nick any of that in the bud anyway.

ACitizenErased

giveitholly wrote: »

Does that mean no boosters in the Autumn? Especially for the elderly?

At the moment boosters aren't a certainty

PhilOssophy

giveitholly wrote: »

Does that mean no boosters in the Autumn? Especially for the elderly?

I heard some immunoligist (Luke O'Neill or somebody) say that if they are neede they would probably incorporate it with that awfully ineffective 40-50% winter flu vaccine that they took every year.....as long as it is a vial with Pfizer written on it.

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

At the moment boosters aren't a certainty

They aren't but the prevailing assumption is they will be needed. At the very least they should be planned for. We don't want a bottle neck of a vaccine supply in winter.

PhilOssophy

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-heart-inflammation-myocarditis

"There's another report of a rare, potential side effect linked to a COVID-19 vaccine. This time, it's heart inflammation, aka myocarditis, associated with the Pfizer vaccine.

Israel's Health Ministry said on Sunday that it is looking into a small number of reported cases of heart inflammation in people who received the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.........
..........
Myocarditis was identified in 62 of the more than 5 million people in Israel who had received the Pfizer vaccine, usually after their second dose. The majority of patients are mostly men.......
Most cases happened in men under the age of 30, and two people have died, including a 22-year-old woman and 35-year-old man. Both reportedly were in good health before getting vaccinated."

This is similar in scale to the "extremely rare" blood clots which we have become so transfixed about.

Deeper Blue

Goldengirl wrote: »

That is a fact

However this to and fro is just derailing the thread so I won't be responding to this ....anymore .

Not it isn't!

Seriously stop embarrassing yourself.

Goldengirl

iamwhoiam wrote: »

People get stressed and are not keen on “ what ifs” I guess . Its bad enough trying to stay above water without “ it might happen “
That’s probably why you feel a bit persecuted GG .

Fair enough .
Got the same reaction when discussing the Covid placentitis, and the CVST and thrombocytopenia side effects , which all turned out to be very important and valid .
People don't want to hear about it or discuss it if it upsets them

Am not stressed about the variants .
The vaccines will eventually overcome them too.
It's what happens in the meantime that gets me .
I thought that we would be getting vaccinated and that with a booster every couple of years , all would be well.
But watching India and seeing how fast these variants are reproducing is frightening .


Everyone can pull a science article out to prove their point as there are many to support whatever side of the debate you are on, but when people you trust are saying that we are not anywhere near out of the woods yet , it is not good.
Had a private conversation with a less known ie .not on telly all the time , virologist a few days ago, about the long term situation , and I was not assured by the conversation , put it that way .
Anyway don't want to be fighting with people over it , so will leave the discussion of it for the moment .
iIt's my opinion , for what it's worth, and I am no expert .

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

Again, comparing the 2 is like apples to oranges.
But if you insist, at least compare both based on trials in the same place.
US trials, J&J 72% vs AZ 76%

AZ's actual results in the UK are much better than the U.S trials of it,circa 90%
AIUI the 72% for johnson is the public in the U.S not the trial
I'd far prefer less than 10% chance of illness than 30%
Plus the need to isolate

Dempo1

Mother of God, am I alone in being absolutely confused as to what is going on with vacinne roll out. I've lost count and more importantly track of various announcements, changes etc today. Its just becoming too complex. I would describe myself as being reasonably intelligent but struggling to comprehend all these changes, government & dept of health seem to be almost deliberately confusing people.

Professor Moriarty

PhilOssophy wrote: »

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-heart-inflammation-myocarditis

"There's another report of a rare, potential side effect linked to a COVID-19 vaccine. This time, it's heart inflammation, aka myocarditis, associated with the Pfizer vaccine.

Israel's Health Ministry said on Sunday that it is looking into a small number of reported cases of heart inflammation in people who received the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.........
..........
Myocarditis was identified in 62 of the more than 5 million people in Israel who had received the Pfizer vaccine, usually after their second dose. The majority of patients are mostly men.......
Most cases happened in men under the age of 30, and two people have died, including a 22-year-old woman and 35-year-old man. Both reportedly were in good health before getting vaccinated."

This is similar in scale to the "extremely rare" blood clots which we have become so transfixed about.

Myocarditis is also a symptom of Covid-19.

Goldengirl

hmmm wrote: »

Racaniello is a proper virologist and says the worries about variants are overblown.

There's plenty of others who would agree that while the virus is mutating, the rate of mutation is relatively small.

They don't have to be right, but there's certainly no consensus that a variant which evades vaccines is inevitable.

I never said it was inevitable .
Please don't jump in and twist my posts .
However why are Pfizer even developing boosters to counter variants if they are not worried about them ?

Marcusm

Goldengirl wrote: »

I never said it was inevitable .
Please don't jump in and twist my posts .
However why are Pfizer even developing boosters to counter variants if they are not worried about them ?

Because the EU is willing to take options on 1.8bn doses of it. Remember Pfizer is a profit making vaccine (unlike AZ which is effectively altruistic, more fools them).

Deeper Blue

Goldengirl wrote: »

I never said it was inevitable

Goldengirl wrote: »

Variants of concern and the possibilit of their evading vaccinations are more than" ifs" , they are" whens", which is a fact.

hmmm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Myocarditis is also a symptom of Covid-19.

Out of an abundance of caution we should suspend vaccinations.

No, but seriously, now we've started not using vaccines during a pandemic because of the risk of rare side-effects, we can't ignore this just because we've painted ourselves into a corner.

sd1999

PhilOssophy wrote: »

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-heart-inflammation-myocarditis

"There's another report of a rare, potential side effect linked to a COVID-19 vaccine. This time, it's heart inflammation, aka myocarditis, associated with the Pfizer vaccine.

Israel's Health Ministry said on Sunday that it is looking into a small number of reported cases of heart inflammation in people who received the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.........
..........
Myocarditis was identified in 62 of the more than 5 million people in Israel who had received the Pfizer vaccine, usually after their second dose. The majority of patients are mostly men.......
Most cases happened in men under the age of 30, and two people have died, including a 22-year-old woman and 35-year-old man. Both reportedly were in good health before getting vaccinated."

This is similar in scale to the "extremely rare" blood clots which we have become so transfixed about.

They literally can’t restrict Pfizer for under 30s here because there’s no other option. Yes, Moderna is there but we barely have any of it.

Whitters22

Marine Layer wrote: »

AZ's actual results in the UK are much better than the U.S trials of it,circa 90%
AIUI the 72% for johnson is the public in the U.S not the trial
I'd far prefer less than 10% chance of illness than 30%
Plus the need to isolate

God the vaccines have really become a victim of their own success. Wait 'til people find out how efficacious the annual flu jab is 🙄

ACitizenErased

Marine Layer wrote: »

AZ's actual results in the UK are much better than the U.S trials of it,circa 90%
AIUI the 72% for johnson is the public in the U.S not the trial
I'd far prefer less than 10% chance of illness than 30%
Plus the need to isolate

do you take the flu jab?

Wolf359f

Marine Layer wrote: »

AZ's actual results in the UK are much better than the U.S trials of it,circa 90%
AIUI the 72% for johnson is the public in the U.S not the trial
I'd far prefer less than 10% chance of illness than 30%
Plus the need to isolate

The J&J's 72% is in US trial data, it's not been used long enough for real world results to be compared. EMA has AZ at 60% efficiency. Real world, all the approved vaccines here seem to beat the trials.

Vaccines prevent covid, J&J prevents 72% of people contracting covid, that doesn't mean the other 28% end up with symptoms/severe illness/hospitalization or death.

Goldengirl

Deeper Blue wrote: »

Yes . Read it again .
the possibility of ...

ixoy

Dempo1 wrote: »

I would describe myself as being reasonably intelligent but struggling to comprehend all these changes, government & dept of health seem to be almost deliberately confusing people.

I don't think anyone is deliberately confusing people but it is complex.

I suspect there's a fair few STEM-types on this thread, where the number crunching and logistical aspects of the vaccine are interesting (which is why we get worked up when we look at some of the statistics) but, taking a step back, it is a challenging, shifting puzzle that I pity anyone trying to sort out, especially when trying to explain it to a wider public who aren't quite as interested, or appreciative, of the headaches and just want the damn thing done.

Grassy Knoll

Take what you are offered, otherwise take your chances with COVID. The benefits of all options vastly outweigh the minuscule risks. A la carte vaccine options will lead to a breakdown in the rollout and cost lives. The earlier paralysis by over analysis by experts in NIAC, while reflecting a fear to make a decision for fear of criticism could cost lives.

Strazdas

Wolf359f wrote: »

The J&J's 72% is in US trial data, it's not been used long enough for real world results to be compared. EMA has AZ at 60% efficiency. Real world, all the approved vaccines here seem to beat the trials.

Vaccines prevent covid, J&J prevents 72% of people contracting covid, that doesn't mean the other 28% end up with symptoms/severe illness/hospitalization or death.

Indeed, and people should take heart from the strict CDC and FDA in the US authorising its use for their own citizens.

funnydoggy

Lovely atmosphere here tonight :pac:

KrustyUCC

Good day today

Dad got his 1st AZ at lunchtime

Herself will be getting 1st Mrna on Thursday

Pauliedragon

funnydoggy wrote: »

Lovely atmosphere here tonight :pac:

I can be a bit single minded sometimes but it's not that hard surely. If you're happy to take the jab take it, if you feel too uncomfortable don't take it.
Edit. That wasn't a dig at you in any way funny I was jusy quoting to highlight a good point you made.

Goldengirl

hmmm wrote: »

Out of an abundance of caution we should suspend vaccinations.

No, but seriously, now we've started not using vaccines during a pandemic because of the risk of rare side-effects, we can't ignore this just because we've painted ourselves into a corner.

Saw this yesterday but glad wasn't the one to bring it up today:)

All new vaccines less than six months rolling out around the world ,we are going to come up against new side effects every few weeks , some severe, some not so .
The incidence of these are becoming rarer as time goes on hopefully .
But the information is important to guide the future use and different populations that the vaccines can be used in .
It is better to know and have the guts to act on the knowledge to restrict use in certain age groups etc especially when those authorising the use are under so much pressure to just get on with the rollout .
It's not just a question of getting sued , but protecting people .

funnydoggy

I'm sure we'd all get along really well offline. For the drinkers, I'll buy the first round. For the non-drinkers, I'll buy the britvic 55 and we'll all look back and exhale :-)

Dempo1

ixoy wrote: »

I don't think anyone is deliberately confusing people but it is complex.

I suspect there's a fair few STEM-types on this thread, where the number crunching and logistical aspects of the vaccine are interesting (which is why we get worked up when we look at some of the statistics) but, taking a step back, it is a challenging, shifting puzzle that I pity anyone trying to sort out, especially when trying to explain it to a wider public who aren't quite as interested, or appreciative, of the headaches and just want the damn thing done.

Points taken, thanks. Perhaps too much information being given out at one time. It's adding, I believe to confusion and dare I say doubts. I agree, it's extremely complex and just felt overwhelmed with the various announcements today.

Jane1012

PhilOssophy wrote: »

This is exactly the problem though. While I think people will understand when somebody is pregnant, there are still thousands of women in the UK who have got the AZ vaccine and had absolutely no problem with it. So why is it such an issue here, when a real-life result is showing next to no issues with it?
.

That’s not actually the case though, the uk was very hesitant giving the vaccine to pregnant women and very few received it. I’m on a lot of uk discussion boards and most were up until recently advised against vaccination. Of those who did receive it, were mainly healthcare workers do got Pfizer. The UK only recently changed their strategy with regards to vaccinating pregnant women with the added caveat that an MRNA vaccine was recommended. I’m aware that my example is very specific to pregnant women but to say thousands of pregnant women got AZ in the UK is false.

However still on a broader spectrum, I don’t think anyone especially older cohorts who we deem vulnerable should be pushed in to a corner to be given a specific vaccine that they are very scared of. Why not open it up and see if people volunteer to skip the Q (probably by a whole 6/8 weeks) to get AZ, if they do it could make a big difference to some very scared elderly people,

stephenjmcd

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Good day today

Dad got his 1st AZ at lunchtime

Herself will be getting 1st Mrna on Thursday

Good stuff.

Did he register on the portal if you don't mind me asking ?

Trying to get a picture of what it's looking like across the country. City west for example seem to be flying through the age groups