Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

SJFly

Supercell wrote: »

The amount of virtue signalling going on here by people likely not in their 50's is unbelievable. "Sure feck the over 50's, they are higher risk but they can wait, they should be thankful they are getting anything at all, now please get on with vaccinating my group with an mRNA vaccine".
I'd wager if you offered 100 people the choice of vaccine, not one would go for the AZ, maybe 25% would go for the J&J for the speed of it and the rest for the mRNA ones, that's a bet i'd take all day long.

No idea if the government will stretch out the rollout of the over 50s to maximise the use of j&j or not. However, it's important to be aware that there are consequences for everyone if half a million doses go unused. The timing for the safe opening of the country will be directly correlated with the number of people vaccinated. Sure, the government could give everyone a choice if vaccine and we'll all stay locked up for an extra couple of months.

noplacehere

noplacehere wrote: »

For anyone in the 60-69 with serious medical history, take the appointment. My relative couldn’t get any answer or reply from the hospital clinics whether he was ok to proceed with AstraZeneca so he went down to the appointment with a page with all his history and meds written out. The person vaccinating brought him straight to the pharmacist and doc one site where they went through it, checked it and reassured him. They held him for an extra fifteen minutes to be sure. He’s absolutely delighted with himself after the frustration of trying to get answers

FYP

Marcusm

Strazdas wrote: »

Indeed, but there was talk of keeping many of the over 50s waiting until mid to late June because of the J & J situation, but they seem to be saying 'to hell with it, let's vaccinate them now'.

I think the messaging is more subtle than that. Let’s have them register now, start the rollout in 3 weeks (when 60-69s finished at MVCs) the vaccinate according to supplies of J&J meaning an elongated time frame. Meanwhile, portal is opened for 45-49 (or whatever) and the are vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine starting say a week later but completing more quickly for first vaccine. Both cohorts will likely be fully vaccinated at the same time, ie end of June.

PhilOssophy

Supercell wrote: »

I'd wager if you offered 100 people the choice of vaccine, not one would go for the AZ, maybe 25% would go for the J&J for the speed of it and the rest for the mRNA ones, that's a bet i'd take all day long.

I'd wager a bet that you don't understand how a clinical trial works or what vaccine efficacy means? In addition, I'd wager a bet that you don't know why the clinical trial results are completely superseded at this stage. I'd also wager a bet that you don't understand what the quoted efficacy is against or how it is calculated.

plodder

Micheál Martin is on Morning Ireland still dodging the question of vaccine choice. But, at least he was clear on one point. The time gap between doses, or number of doses does not have any impact on vaccinated status, and whatever, if any, benefits come from that. We'll be considered vaccinated some number of weeks after the first dose.

sd1999

There’s only two practical ways to prevent J&J going to waste:

1. NIAC lowers age limit to 40 and over.
2. 50-59s wait 2-3 extra weeks to get J&J. They will also be getting AZ too so it’s not like all of them will have to wait.

As it stands, 50-59s are more likely to get AZ which takes four weeks after the first dose to be effective. J&J takes two weeks after its dose to be effective and they would be fully vaccinated. Even with Pfizer, 50-59s would be waiting a few weeks to be fully vaccinated. The risk for them is higher than 40-49 but they are not considered at high risk as long as there are no underlying conditions, which is something it seems people are forgetting, it’s only healthy 50-59s who we’re talking about here. The most vulnerable of that group are being done in Cohort 4 & 7 at GPs with Pfizer.

That being said, the provision that J&J can be used if no other vaccine is available shows that NIAC may be more willing to lower the age limit in the future. Also, J&J will be used for hard to reach communities and those who getting a second dose to would be difficult. That won’t account for all of the J&J obviously but it will help to use at least some of them.

Russman

Supercell wrote: »

The amount of virtue signalling going on here by people likely not in their 50's is unbelievable. "Sure feck the over 50's, they are higher risk but they can wait, they should be thankful they are getting anything at all, now please get on with vaccinating my group with an mRNA vaccine".
I'd wager if you offered 100 people the choice of vaccine, not one would go for the AZ, maybe 25% would go for the J&J for the speed of it and the rest for the mRNA ones, that's a bet i'd take all day long.

Virtue signalling is one of those useless phrases we wish we could un-invent.

It’s about matching up logistics with the current medical advice, IF the govt want to reach their June target for the vaccinations. If they’re ok with it extending a bit longer, fine. I’m sure there are a few people who think they want mRNA or nothing, but I think most people are happy to take whatever vaccine they can get. I’d take any of them tomorrow.

Sanjuro

Supercell wrote: »

Am I wrong? Without attacking me again please, please explain why i am?

You're just making stuff up about people saying they wouldn't take AZ or J&J to suit your own perceived grievance about people saying "feic the over 50's." That's simply just not true. Nobody's saying feic any group on here. And if you go back and look at what people were saying when NIAC made their recommendations about those vaccines, you'd see that most posters on here were saying they were ridiculous recommendations and that they'd gladly take either of them. I think you just want to be outraged and will make stuff up to fit your narrative.

is_that_so

Strazdas wrote: »

Indeed, but there was talk of keeping many of the over 50s waiting until mid to late June because of the J & J situation, but they seem to be saying 'to hell with it, let's vaccinate them now'.

Varadkar did mention concurrent vaccination groups last night. I reckon it depends on what the HSE decide next week on vaccines that will be available to that 50-59 group. If it's J&J and AZ only then we could see 50 somethings waiting into July, if doses arrive very late in June. Either way 40+ and maybe even some 30+ will be in the system at the same time as the 50s group.

Jane1012

Father 66 and mother 62 both still waiting to be called, they both registered on the first day the portal opened for their age. Is anyone else in the same position? I’ve seen many younger than 66 getting the vaccine but if we are moving in to the 50’s now that’s very frustrating. Both are also cohort 7 but GP said they will get it quicker through the age based system

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

Varadkar did mention concurrent vaccination groups last night. I reckon it depends on what the HSE decide next week on vaccines that will be available to that 50-59 group. If it's J&J and AZ only then we could see 50 somethings waiting into July, if doses arrive very late in June. Either way 40+ and maybe even some 30+ will be in the system at the same time as the 50s group.

Mentioned again on morning Ireland in the last few minutes. Apart from the below it was the same line as last few days, HSE working to operationalise the NIAC advice etc

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1388033244017438722?s=20

is_that_so

Jane1012 wrote: »

Father 66 and mother 62 both still waiting to be called, they both registered on the first day the portal opened for their age. Is anyone else in the same position? I’ve seen many younger than 66 getting the vaccine but if we are moving in to the 50’s now that’s very frustrating. Both are also cohort 7 but GP said they will get it quicker through the age based system

They may be local demographics at work but no harm giving the HSE a call anyway to check.

mugsymugsy

I'm not at risk and I can work from home. I'm happy to wait my turn and whatever vaccine is given I'll gladly take. I'm happy to see older people I know get the jab and be able to safely return to some kind of normality.

As others have said you have more chance of winning the lotto then getting serious side effects.

I agree with the concept of people choosing not to have a certain vaccine but don't turn around expect the pfizer or whichever one to be ready that same day for you.

stephenjmcd

Jane1012 wrote: »

Father 66 and mother 62 both still waiting to be called, they both registered on the first day the portal opened for their age. Is anyone else in the same position? I’ve seen many younger than 66 getting the vaccine but if we are moving in to the 50’s now that’s very frustrating. Both are also cohort 7 but GP said they will get it quicker through the age based system

We're not moving on per say. Opening up registration just means their names are in the system.

The pace at which age groups are gone down through really is down to alot of local factors (demographic of the area etc) along with supply then on a national level.

My father registered with the 65 year olds on the day they opened and no appointment yet, but I know that registering doesn't mean an appointment is a sure thing within a day or a week, it might take a little time. The aim is over 60s vastly done by end of May so there's a bit to go here.

The 2 nearest MVC to me would be the Aviva and Greystones, now I thought my father might get the Aviva given our location but it's possible we'll get either. In that case I know of the Aviva doing 67 year olds and a few 66 year olds this week, and Greystones only recently opened and is on 69 & 68 year olds. So we shouldn't be waiting too much longer hopefully but I can see how people might think oh i've been waiting 2 weeks etc

Ll31

Given the higher risk to the over 50s of covid, are we happy to ignore the medical advice so and forget vaccinating them till July? Because that's what being suggested. You can call it vaccinating different cohorts at the same time, but if you restrict vaccine types to over 50s on operational and not medical reasons, you are going against medical advice and essentially saying f*** you to the over 50s for at least another 2 months. Nice.

is_that_so

mugsymugsy wrote: »

I'm not at risk and I can work from home. I'm happy to wait my turn and whatever vaccine is given I'll gladly take. I'm happy to see older people I know get the jab and be able to safely return to some kind of normality.

As others have said you have more chance of winning the lotto then getting serious side effects.

I agree with the concept of people choosing not to have a certain vaccine but don't turn around expect the pfizer or whichever one to be ready that same day for you.

Once we get into the summer it will largely be mRNA vaccines so it's very likely it will be one of those for people who wait. The EU, for now, are looking to Pfizer only for next generation vaccines.

is_that_so

Ll31 wrote: »

Given the higher risk to the over 50s of covid, are we happy to ignore the medical advice so and forget vaccinating them till July? Because that's what being suggested. You can call it vaccinating different cohorts at the same time, but if you restrict vaccine types to over 50s on operational and not medical reasons, you are going against medical advice and essentially saying f*** you to the over 50s for at least another 2 months. Nice.

We'll have to wait and see what the HSE say next week about the plan.

OwlsZat

ceegee wrote: »

Better leaving people in their 20s waiting a few weeks in June than having people in their 50s wait a month now.

This.

From a herd immunity perspective there is an argument for unlocking once the over 50s+ etc., have there vaccines. Once the risk of serious disease / death has passed. Generating the antibody response in younger folk through passing it about will work just as well in the long run. It's a matter of when the right time to do it is.

Tim Robbins

Ok so as previously stated HSE site says that Cohort 7 are currently being vaccinated. See https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/rollout/

I contact my GP who says they won't do anyone after cohort 4 as they just don't have the resources. They say the HSE will be in touch. I contact the HSE they say your GP should contact us and say you are eligible and we'll vaccinate you.

I go back to my GP, says they have heard nothing about this but they said the IMO said something might be set up for GPs to forward patients details on if they cannot vaccinate them. So basically no firm answer.

A bit frustrated about this. I thought Cohort 7 was before 60 - 64. If government are changing this the media should at least be challenging them on it.

Many on Cohort 7 are still basically cocooning. Not everyone who ends in a bad way with this thing is over 70.

Beanybabog

Jane1012 wrote: »

Father 66 and mother 62 both still waiting to be called, they both registered on the first day the portal opened for their age. Is anyone else in the same position? I’ve seen many younger than 66 getting the vaccine but if we are moving in to the 50’s now that’s very frustrating. Both are also cohort 7 but GP said they will get it quicker through the age based system

I think it depends on where you live. I know a 60 and 63 year old who got an appointment within a day for a few days later and a 69 year old who registered straight away (different county) but only got the appointment now. I know others still waiting. At my GP for another matter I heard them cancelling appointments as they had no vaccines and the nurse told me they’re still working on over 70s, whereas on boards I see some much younger people got a leftover at the GP. I think the issue of the over 70s was raised in the Dail- some still waiting and would be more than happy to go down to the centre and take the Astra Zeneca but they’re not allowed.
I’d say your folks GP is probably right, if it was me I’d take the portal and not wait on the GP, they seem to be hit and miss

is_that_so

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Ok so as previously stated HSE site says that Cohort 7 are currently being vaccinated. See https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/rollout/

I contact my GP who says they won't do anyone after cohort 4 as they just don't have the resources. They say the HSE will be in touch. I contact the HSE they say your GP should contact us and say you are eligible and we'll vaccinate you.

I go back to my GP, says they have heard nothing about this but they said the IMO said something might be set up for GPs to forward patients details on if they cannot vaccinate them. So basically no firm answer.

A bit frustrated about this. I thought Cohort 7 was before 60 - 64. If government are changing this the media should at least be challenging them on it.

Many on Cohort 7 are still basically cocooning. Not everyone who ends in a bad way with this thing is over 70.

No, Groups 1-7 are a separate process to what's happening via the portal and working at their own pace. Anecdotally GPs seem to be doing Group 4 or Group 4 & 7 combined. They also seem to be a poor source of information on it.

PhilOssophy

Are people finally starting to realise what a bad call NIAC made re J&J?
There is a desperate need to re-visit this decision and make this available for all age groups. Then, the 40-50's can be done in parallel with the 50-60's (I don't have the numbers re each vaccine but this makes sense to me).
We will absolutely blitz through our population once this decision is re-visited.

Russman

OwlsZat wrote: »

From a herd immunity perspective there is an argument for unlocking once the over 50s+ etc., have there vaccines. Once the risk of serious disease / death has passed. Generating the antibody response in younger folk through passing it about will work just as well in the long run. It's a matter of when the right time to do it is.

Cant' agree with this at all tbh. We should be using vaccines to get to herd immunity, not vaccinating the over 50s and then "let her rip" so to speak.
The risks are small on an individual level for younger cohorts, but like anything, if you throw enough volume at it, it becomes a problem.

SJFly

OwlsZat wrote: »

This.

From a herd immunity perspective there is an argument for unlocking once the over 50s+ etc., have there vaccines. Once the risk of serious disease / death has passed. Generating the antibody response in younger folk through passing it about will work just as well in the long run. It's a matter of when the right time to do it is.

Opening up the country with say 50% vaccinated v 40% vaccinated would have a massive impact of the spread of the virus. While only a small number of younger people become seriously ill, a small percentage of a very big number could still be devastating. On the other hand, there's no doubt the over 50s are at greater risk. This is a really tough decision and there is no easy answer.

Valhallapt

OwlsZat wrote: »

This.

From a herd immunity perspective there is an argument for unlocking once the over 50s+ etc., have there vaccines. Once the risk of serious disease / death has passed. Generating the antibody response in younger folk through passing it about will work just as well in the long run. It's a matter of when the right time to do it is.

Problem is that it’s not just waiting a couple of weeks in July. If this is done we will be short 1.2m doses of mRNA vaccines. They may arrive into the country in July or august but even at full tilt with all the vaccines landed it’s going to take many more weeks to get those jabs in arms.

While I’m happy to reopen once everyone over 60 is done, I think the majority of people want herd immunity first.

Government have a binary choice, delay 50+ by two / three weeks or extend lockdown by 6-8 weeks.

Any of the 50yo I know when given a choice of do you want a vaccine now and stay in lockdown until late august or do you want to wait a fortnight and open the country back up in early July. Most will pick the latter, especially as they will be fully vaccinated before 40s, 30s, 20s etc

Russman

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Are people finally starting to realise what a bad call NIAC made re J&J?
There is a desperate need to re-visit this decision and make this available for all age groups. Then, the 40-50's can be done in parallel with the 50-60's (I don't have the numbers re each vaccine but this makes sense to me).
We will absolutely blitz through our population once this decision is re-visited.

In fairness, NIAC made an inconvenient call, doesn't mean it was a bad one. Other countries have gone both ways with their J&J decision - we'll never know who was right. I think we've ordered something like 2m J&J in total, so we'll be binning/donating a heap of it anyway, and plenty of the other shots too as the EU have ordered so much extra cover.

Russman

SJFly wrote: »

This is a really tough decision and there is no easy answer.

I think this is it in a nutshell. Very difficult call for them to make.

The key could be our projected deliveries of AZ (I know, I know !). If, and its a big if, we could get enough of that delivered to continue with the 60s as planned, and also start to tap away at the 50s while waiting for good volumes of J&J, the timeline might be saved.

PhilOssophy

Russman wrote: »

In fairness, NIAC made an inconvenient call, doesn't mean it was a bad one. Other countries have gone both ways with their J&J decision - we'll never know who was right. I think we've ordered something like 2m J&J in total, so we'll be binning/donating a heap of it anyway, and plenty of the other shots too as the EU have ordered so much extra cover.

I get that alright but in terms of the roll-out, they are going to have to re-visit the decision and undoubtedly remove the age limit. To me, when the FDA and EMA didn't put in an age limit, I don't see why we did.

Ll31

The problem is, it's easy say the over 50s will only be delayed by 2 to 3 weeks, but no one knows if that's the case. So again, deliberately delay vaccinating people at most risk, go against medical advice, or don't. But don't pretend the delay to the more vulnerable group is a cast iron guarantee to be only 2 or 3 weeks.

Valhallapt

Ll31 wrote: »

The problem is, it's easy say the over 50s will only be delayed by 2 to 3 weeks, but no one knows if that's the case. So again, deliberately delay vaccinating people at most risk, go against medical advice, or don't. But don't pretend the delay to the more vulnerable group is a cast iron guarantee to be only 2 or 3 weeks.

This is true, but if J&J is delayed you can swap so the remaining 50+ to mRNA and pause the roll out to 30s.