Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Ll31

So still delay the more vulnerable group, against medical advice, right.

OwlsZat

SJFly wrote: »

Opening up the country with say 50% vaccinated v 40% vaccinated would have a massive impact of the spread of the virus. While only a small number of younger people become seriously ill, a small percentage of a very big number could still be devastating. On the other hand, there's no doubt the over 50s are at greater risk. This is a really tough decision and there is no easy answer.

With every 10 years the serious affect risk drops 4 fold. At 30 years old a women is at higher risk of developing blood clots than dying from the disease. People in their 30s aren't concerned for opening up again and the spread of the disease (which is already spread plenty don't you worry). So I guess your saying 40-50 years are.

Didn't the J&J jab have other authorizations. Like where there was a chance the 2nd dose wouldn't be gotten. Remote areas, homeless etc, maybe they will just let people sign up themselves if they believe they wouldn't get the 2nd dose for whatever reason and hope to distribute that way.

iamwhoiam

Nothing can open fully until Cohort 4 and 7 are done . They have done nothing to sort out the mess that is happening . People falling between GPs and clinics . People cant get answers from either whether they will be done . This has to addressed first and sorted very quickly now

Russman

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I get that alright but in terms of the roll-out, they are going to have to re-visit the decision and undoubtedly remove the age limit. To me, when the FDA and EMA didn't put in an age limit, I don't see why we did.

I know what you're saying aright, and it may play out that way.
But as a non medical person, I think there must have been something in the data that lead to certain countries restricting one or both of AZ & J&J. None of them did it for no good reason and I guess different countries' versions of NIAC will have different interpretations or tolerances of risk. I get that FDA & EMA approved them, but I think the EMA also say its up to the individual countries to decide whatever rules apply. Its a big inconvenience, no doubt, for our roll out, and if the advice changes then grand, but I wouldn't like them to be seen to change it for reasons of expediency.

Supercell

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I'd wager a bet that you don't understand how a clinical trial works or what vaccine efficacy means? In addition, I'd wager a bet that you don't know why the clinical trial results are completely superseded at this stage. I'd also wager a bet that you don't understand what the quoted efficacy is against or how it is calculated.

Said the person in their 40's proving my point exactly. Also it's not just the clotting, it's the 12-16 weeks between doses as well.

OwlsZat

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nothing can open fully until Cohort 4 and 7 are done . They have done nothing to sort out the mess that is happening . People falling between GPs and clinics . People cant get answers from either whether they will be done . This has to addressed first and sorted very quickly now

https://www.thejournal.ie/as-restrictions-ease-how-is-irelands-vaccine-rollout-going-5423452-Apr2021/

Looks like Cohort 4 is underway.

Valhallapt

Ll31 wrote: »

So still delay the more vulnerable group, against medical advice, right.

Well depends on how you define vaccinated. In essence, you would be delaying their first jab, but expediting their second jab. So they would be fully protected much sooner.

PhilOssophy

Russman wrote: »

I know what you're saying aright, and it may play out that way.
But as a non medical person, I think there must have been something in the data that lead to certain countries restricting one or both of AZ & J&J. None of them did it for no good reason and I guess different countries' versions of NIAC will have different interpretations or tolerances of risk. I get that FDA & EMA approved them, but I think the EMA also say its up to the individual countries to decide whatever rules apply. Its a big inconvenience, no doubt, for our roll out, and if the advice changes then grand, but I wouldn't like them to be seen to change it for reasons of expediency.

I get that alright, but then why don't NIAC/Holohan/Donnelly come out and say what that was, or why they know better than either of the others?

Supercell wrote: »

Said the person in their 40's proving my point exactly. Also it's not just the clotting, it's the 12-16 weeks between doses as well.

Proving what point?

Tim Robbins

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nothing can open fully until Cohort 4 and 7 are done . They have done nothing to sort out the mess that is happening . People falling between GPs and clinics . People cant get answers from either whether they will be done . This has to addressed first and sorted very quickly now

Yeah well to be honest, I am stressed out about it. I have been semi cocooning in that I don't go shops, meet friends, very strict on the 2M when out walking for over a year. Very lucky I have a job that supports you and would in general, I don't suffer from mental health. But, I would think anyone who has a job that is putting pressure on them or has mental health issues - I don't see how they can be expected to cope. Seeing people at lower levels of risk getting the vaccine first and the government not really making it clear they will be looked after.

is_that_so

Ll31 wrote: »

So still delay the more vulnerable group, against medical advice, right.

There are plenty of 50+ who would take issue at you calling them vulnerable! Some are in better health than people half their age.

iamwhoiam

OwlsZat wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/as-restrictions-ease-how-is-irelands-vaccine-rollout-going-5423452-Apr2021/

Looks like Cohort 4 is underway.

Some have but many have been left in Limbo and can get no information on the timing . My daughter thinks she will be quicker going by her age than her illness ( group 7 )

Zipppy

OwlsZat wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/as-restrictions-ease-how-is-irelands-vaccine-rollout-going-5423452-Apr2021/

Looks like Cohort 4 is underway.

Loads of Cohort 4 being done,,me included on Monday..friend today and so on,,

Great to see,,

iamwhoiam

Zipppy wrote: »

Loads of Cohort 4 being done,,me included on Monday..friend today and so on,,

Great to see,,

Good news for you . Did the GP do it ?

Russman

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I get that alright, but then why don't NIAC/Holohan/Donnelly come out and say what that was, or why they know better than either of the others?

But they're not saying they know better, they're effectively saying they have a different take on whatever the data is. Look at the range of age limits that different western countries have put on AZ, from none at all, to 20 to 65 to a total ban, and other numbers in between, all based on the same data. Presumably these are all competent national bodies that have come to various different conclusions. There's obviously a huge amount of judgement involved and I'm not saying NIAC are "right".

I've no issue if they came out and said exactly what it was, but really, would you want a million and one armchair/facebook experts telling them why they're wrong ?

I hope not but I think the politics of it will mean we'll ultimately end up missing the June target by a few weeks & having unused J&J shots come June /July. Government will "blame" the deliveries and the medical advice and most will accept it.

ceegee

is_that_so wrote: »

There are plenty of 50+ who would take issue at you calling them vulnerable! Some are in better health than people half their age.

If they've made it to their 50s without understanding the concept of a group then they can probably be classed as intellectually vulnerable.

is_that_so

ceegee wrote: »

If they've made it to their 50s without understanding the concept of a group then they can probably be classed as intellectually vulnerable.

I guess there's a semblance of a joke in there somewhere but don't give up the day job, ever!

emrys

Paul Reid was interviewed this morning on Newstalk (just after 8AM) quite clear. Portal for 50 somethings opens next week, expect to get an appointment within two weeks of registering, all 4 vaccines to be used.

is_that_so

emrys wrote: »

Paul Reid was interviewed this morning on Newstalk (just after 8AM) quite clear. Portal for 50 somethings opens next week, expect to get an appointment within two weeks of registering, all 4 vaccines to be used.

Did he he actually say all four vaccines? The Newstalk website says they are finalising plans.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/vaccination-of-over-50s-set-to-get-underway-in-next-two-to-three-weeks-reid-1187880

emrys

is_that_so wrote: »

Did he he actually say all four vaccines? The Newstalk website says they are finalising plans.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/vaccination-of-over-50s-set-to-get-underway-in-next-two-to-three-weeks-reid-1187880

ill listen back pretty sure thats what he said and how they would manage that would be finalised over weekend

Zipppy

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Good news for you . Did the GP do it ?

Getting it on Monday frm GP...had to contact GP and plead my case, despite consultant putting me in Cohort4...
Pays to badger your GP..

seamus

Zipppy wrote: »

Loads of Cohort 4 being done,,me included on Monday..friend today and so on,,

Great to see,,

Cohort 4 was about 56% done (1st dose) as of Monday.

They're kind of the last of the "super important" cohorts to be done. Cohorts 5 & 7 are at high risk, but we can open most things without them being protected. It's mainly large gatherings and indoor services that are dependent on them being vaccinated.

Once cohort 7 is fully covered, there's not a whole lot standing in the way of building up to denser indoor activities (like pubs) and large outdoor gatherings.

emrys

emrys wrote: »

Paul Reid was interviewed this morning on Newstalk (just after 8AM) quite clear. Portal for 50 somethings opens next week, expect to get an appointment within two weeks of registering, all 4 vaccines to be used.

What he seemed to say was "We have 4 vaccines available to use", not that he was saying all vaccines would be used for the group and the plan on how to use them is being formulated over the weekend

Zipppy

seamus wrote: »

Cohort 4 was about 56% done (1st dose) as of Monday.

They're kind of the last of the "super important" cohorts to be done. Cohorts 5 & 7 are at high risk, but we can open most things without them being protected. It's mainly large gatherings and indoor services that are dependent on them being vaccinated.

Once cohort 7 is fully covered, there's not a whole lot standing in the way of building up to denser indoor activities (like pubs) and large outdoor gatherings.

My GP, and I know of another, are doing cohorts 4 & 7 together as they say they dont have too many cohort4s on their books..

astrofool

Russman wrote: »

But they're not saying they know better, they're effectively saying they have a different take on whatever the data is. Look at the range of age limits that different western countries have put on AZ, from none at all, to 20 to 65 to a total ban, and other numbers in between, all based on the same data. Presumably these are all competent national bodies that have come to various different conclusions. There's obviously a huge amount of judgement involved and I'm not saying NIAC are "right".

I've no issue if they came out and said exactly what it was, but really, would you want a million and one armchair/facebook experts telling them why they're wrong ?

I hope not but I think the politics of it will mean we'll ultimately end up missing the June target by a few weeks & having unused J&J shots come June /July. Government will "blame" the deliveries and the medical advice and most will accept it.

And I know it doesn't seem like it, but we're rapidly moving from the rollout with huge takeup phase to rollout where we need to encourage people to signup and get vaccinated.

Zipppy

Deleted User wrote: »

What he seemed to say was "We have 4 vaccines available to use", not that he was saying all vaccines would be used for the group and the plan on how to use them is being formulated over the weekend

I think the communications have been pretty clear..

All vaccines will be used on over 50s, there will be no 'delaying this group', full steam ahead,
Anything else is just speculation...
They cant rely on future deliveries so must proceed with what they have...

average_runner

Zipppy wrote: »

I think the communications have been pretty clear..

All vaccines will be used on over 50s, there will be no 'delaying this group', full steam ahead,
Anything else is just speculation...
They cant rely on future deliveries so must proceed with what they have...

Talks about doing over 40 and over 50 together now.
Things are ramping up nicely

snotboogie

emrys wrote: »

Paul Reid was interviewed this morning on Newstalk (just after 8AM) quite clear. Portal for 50 somethings opens next week, expect to get an appointment within two weeks of registering, all 4 vaccines to be used.

I for one am shocked that the government/HSE won't make a hard decision now to prevent issues a few months down the line!

Seriously, this will screw us unless they plan not to follow NIAC advice when they get to under 50's

seamus

32,362 doses done on Wednesday. This is lower than the previous Wednesday, but not by a lot. (34,978)

In comparison terms, we had a huge Monday & Tuesday though, so we're not "down". The Monday-Wednesday total for this week is 82,566. Last week it was 63,445.

Thursday & Friday were the big vaccination days last week, so hopefully that happens this week too.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

J&J delivery target for Europe starting to look grim

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1387891573002735618.html

revelman

Stephen Donnelly on RTE Radio 1 now saying that they are looking at doing the 50-59 and 40-49 age groups in parallel “in several weeks time”.