Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

AdamD

Ll31 wrote: »

Originally Posted by sd1999 View Post
But those over 50s have access to a vaccine, just not the specific vaccine that they want. It's extremely entitled

No, over 50s can on medical advice take any of 4 vaccines. But people want them restricted to 2, and the other 2, used to vaccinate younger cohorts ahead of them, against niac advise. We know j&j are due late June at earliest. We know other vaccines are here now. So saying to over 50 s you can register now but we will only vaccinate u late June or July despite us having vaccines on hand which u are eligible for, is the issue. There is nothing entitled about objecting to that.

Yes it would be entitled to demand a specific vaccine. I'm just saying the over 50 s should get whatever vaccine is available when they are being vaccinated, not restricted to two vaccines which are not currently available. At least I hope the HSE and govt call it what it is if they take this route, total disregard of niac advice.

There is something unpleasant about pretending that people are not trying to vaccinate younger cohorts before older cohorts.

Its pretty unpleasant to want to vaccinated the over 50s at any cost, even if it means we run out supply for everyone else.

ddarcy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incorrect.

AZ requires the booster to ensure efficacy is maintained long term, this can happen out to 12 weeks, but it does not increase the effectiveness, therefore the full protection is there from 4 weeks.

With the mRNA vaccines, you need to second dose to achieve the maximum effect

So you agree with me. As time rolls on it loses its effectiveness. This happens anyways (eg Pfizer after 6 months dropped from 95 to 90). It’s just quicker than what would normally happen in AZ, so the second booster is needed to maintain it longer. Not saying it’s going to magically go from 75pct to 90 pct with the second jab. This was found in the early phase studies.

My worry would be that is you tell someone that they are fully vaccinated and then say they need another injection when all other fully vaccinated people using other vaccines do not, that people will skip the second injection.

Ll31

'Parallel' vaccination of age cohorts could soon be in place as supplies increase, Martin says

Quote:
TAOISEACH MICHEÁL MARTIN has said there may be a “parallel” vaccination system as supplies begin to increase, vaccinating two cohorts at the same time.
funnydoggy is online now Report Post

I hope some one is going to ask Michael martin for details on deliveries and if as expected astroz and j&j are not available till end June, why they are vaccinating younger cohorts before older cohorts, against medical advice.

sd1999

Ll31 wrote: »

Originally Posted by sd1999 View Post
But those over 50s have access to a vaccine, just not the specific vaccine that they want. It's extremely entitled

No, over 50s can on medical advice take any of 4 vaccines. But people want them restricted to 2, and the other 2, used to vaccinate younger cohorts ahead of them, against niac advise. We know j&j are due late June at earliest. We know other vaccines are here now. So saying to over 50 s you can register now but we will only vaccinate u late June or July despite us having vaccines on hand which u are eligible for, is the issue. There is nothing entitled about objecting to that.

Yes it would be entitled to demand a specific vaccine. I'm just saying the over 50 s should get whatever vaccine is available when they are being vaccinated, not restricted to two vaccines which are not currently available. At least I hope the HSE and govt call it what it is if they take this route, total disregard of niac advice.

There is something unpleasant about pretending that people are not trying to vaccinate younger cohorts before older cohorts.

They're vaccinating younger cohorts (40-49) a little earlier than they would've been done for the benefit of the entire population. The ten year age difference doesn't confer as much of a risk as say the difference between 80-89 and 70-79. And again, the most vulnerable in the 50-59 group (in cohorts 4 and 7) will already be done. We're talking about delaying the vaccination of an older cohort for a few weeks to prevent extending the lockdown for everyone.

Ll31

Its pretty unpleasant to want to vaccinated the over 50s at any cost, even if it means we run out supply for everyone else

But it's ok to vaccinate everyone else, even if we've no supply for over 50 s... Yep that's clear .

Ll31

They're vaccinating younger cohorts (40-49) a little earlier than they would've been done for the benefit of the entire population. The ten year age difference doesn't confer as much of a risk as say the difference between 80-89 and 70-79. And again, the most vulnerable in the 50-59 group (in cohorts 4 and 7) will already be done. We're talking about delaying the vaccination of an older cohort for a few weeks to prevent extending the lockdown for everyone.

A few weeks? So they can register next week and get an appt in July, if, and it is if, j& j, deliver as promised. Also I suggest u look at risks again.

sd1999

AdamD wrote: »

Its pretty unpleasant to want to vaccinated the over 50s at any cost, even if it means we run out supply for everyone else.

Exactly, it would take at least a couple of months to make up the 1.2 million doses of Pfizer that would be needed to counter the 600,000 wasted J&J doses.

ixoy

Ll31 wrote: »

But it's ok to vaccinate everyone else, even if we've no supply for over 50 s... Yep that's clear .

But we would. If J & J had sudden supply issues, you'd make the call to switch the cohort to the other vaccines because you couldn't wait.

ddarcy

ddarcy wrote: »

So you agree with me. As time rolls on it loses its effectiveness. This happens anyways (eg Pfizer after 6 months dropped from 95 to 90). It’s just quicker than what would normally happen in AZ, so the second booster is needed to maintain it longer. Not saying it’s going to magically go from 75pct to 90 pct with the second jab. This was found in the early phase studies.

My worry would be that is you tell someone that they are fully vaccinated and then say they need another injection when all other fully vaccinated people using other vaccines do not, that people will skip the second injection.

No, the difference is the full protection associated with the AZ vaccine is achieved after 4 weeks, with Pfizer this is only a week after dose 2. That's why vaccine bonus can be applied to AZ after dose 1. Yes, long term efficacy is maintained with does 2, but once dose 1 has had 4 weeks, they are as protected as they would be after dose 2, so why not give them the benefits

Strazdas

sd1999 wrote: »

Exactly, it would take at least a couple of months to make up the 1.2 million doses of Pfizer that would be needed to counter the 600,000 wasted J&J doses.

People are assuming too much here. It's very possible that NIAC advice on J & J might change in a few weeks' time - the assumption being made is that the restriction on it going to the under 50s is set in stone and can never be undone (when NIAC themselves have already said it can be given to the under 50s if there is a shortage of vaccines).

Ll31

clear .
But we would. If J & J had sudden supply issues, you'd make the call to switch the cohort to the other vaccines because you couldn't wait.


In July. Which is the point...

ddarcy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, the difference is the full protection associated with the AZ vaccine is achieved after 4 weeks, with Pfizer this is only a week after dose 2. That's why vaccine bonus can be applied to AZ after dose 1. Yes, long term efficacy is maintained with does 2, but once dose 1 has had 4 weeks, they are as protected as they would be after dose 2, so why not give them the benefits

My main concern is that once people have that they are fully vaccinated in mind they won’t line up for more. It’s a psychological problem here. Agree that after 4 weeks you are technically vaccinated, but my concern would be on that second shot and prolonged vaccination. AZ wouldn’t get approval for one shot as the efficacy falls too quickly. The second dose is hoped to have efficacy last at least a year.

In summary there is no issue with someone getting one shot of AZ and saying they are technically fully vaccinated for now. The issue is near the end of summer when the efficacy massively drops in it. If you don’t get the second dose then we are back to square one basically. Really the government should say you are fully vaccinated from week 4-16 instead of just 4.

Skygord

https://twitter.com/BioNTech_Group/status/1388088438327545856?s=20

funnydoggy

To add to my last post -


Dept considering parallel vaccination of 40-49 and 50-59 cohorts


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0430/1213016-covid-ireland-latest/



This would be huge!

is_that_so

Strazdas wrote: »

People are assuming too much here. It's very possible that NIAC advice on J & J might change in a few weeks' time - the assumption being made is that the restriction on it going to the under 50s is set in stone and can never be undone (when NIAC themselves have already said it can be given to the under 50s if there is a shortage of vaccines).

In all probability it won't and they do have a preference for mRNA vaccines. There will need to be a level of juggling supplies to get the over 50s done anyway and the imminent approval of CureVac will help with the other age groups.

Strazdas

funnydoggy wrote: »

To add to my last post -


Dept considering parallel vaccination of 40-49 and 50-59 cohorts


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0430/1213016-covid-ireland-latest/



This would be huge!

It sounds like they would open the portal but then simply leave it open for the first few weeks in May i.e. 59, 58, 57 year olds register on consecutive days but then it carries on apace with 50, 49, 48 year olds etc.

ixoy

funnydoggy wrote: »

To add to my last post -


Dept considering parallel vaccination of 40-49 and 50-59 cohorts


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0430/1213016-covid-ireland-latest/



This would be huge!

It'd certainly suit me

Strazdas

is_that_so wrote: »

In all probability it won't and they do have a preference for mRNA vaccines. There will need to be a level of juggling supplies to get the over 50s done anyway and the imminent approval of CureVac will help with the other age groups.

For sure, but I think people are worrying unnecessarily about unused J & J vaccines. We can deal with that if and when it happens - for the moment, just throw every vaccine available at the eligible population.

Darwin

funnydoggy wrote: »

To add to my last post -


Dept considering parallel vaccination of 40-49 and 50-59 cohorts


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0430/1213016-covid-ireland-latest/



This would be huge!

More spin from SD. To put it another way, we are partially skipping the 50 to 59 cohort. The J&J vaccine is being given to people age 18 and over in the US, they should follow that lead here and continue with the original plan of vaccination by age.

munchkin_utd

is_that_so wrote: »

In all probability it won't and they do have a preference for mRNA vaccines. There will need to be a level of juggling supplies to get the over 50s done anyway and the imminent approval of CureVac will help with the other age groups.

could they not do like is done in other countries if stuck with a few doses, and release it for anyone under the standard recommended age limit who voluntarily applies for the J+J jab and is prepared to accept the minuscule risk against the not inconsiderable benefits (not least of all, that you only need the 1 jab)

Turtwig

Skygord wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BioNTech_Group/status/1388088438327545856?s=20

Excellent stuff.

Valhallapt

Strazdas wrote: »

For sure, but I think people are worrying unnecessarily about unused J & J vaccines. We can deal with that if and when it happens - for the moment, just throw every vaccine available at the eligible population.

Possibly one of the stupidest things I’ve read on the internet.

is_that_so

munchkin_utd wrote: »

could they not do like is done in other countries if stuck with a few doses, and release it for anyone under the standard recommended age limit who voluntarily applies for the J+J jab and is prepared to accept the minuscule risk against the not inconsiderable benefits (not least of all, that you only need the 1 jab)

J&J advice comes with that caveat of using it if there's nothing else available so some may find their way into the under 50s anyway.

josip

Strazdas wrote: »

For sure, but I think people are worrying unnecessarily about unused J & J vaccines. We can deal with that if and when it happens - for the moment, just throw every vaccine available at the eligible population.

We can't actually, unless NIAC change the lower age limit for J&J in the next month.

3DataModem

Any idea what type of vaccines are being rolled out to GPs for the category 7s? I just got an appointment, just curious if anyone has any insight as to what flavour I'll be getting.

namloc1980

3DataModem wrote: »

Any idea what type of vaccines are being rolled out to GPs for the category 7s? I just got an appointment, just curious if anyone has any insight as to what flavour I'll be getting.

I am group 7 and had my first dose of Pfizer yesterday from my GP.

castletownman

My parents got vaccinated together this afternoon at their GP practise. In five minutes before the appointment, directed up the stairs to a special admin area, out comes their regular GP a couple of minutes later (who didn't recognise Dad with his extensive lockdown beard), and twenty minutes observation time thereafter. Excellent system by the sounds of it.

To say I am thrilled would be an understatement. Six months ago, my dad got the virus (at the same time as myself and my brother due to a community outbreak), and while he ended up getting extremely mild symptoms, the initial confirmation of "positive" really gets you worried.

I shall have a few takeaway pints this weekend to celebrate how far we have come in six months.

Turtwig

One billion vaccines have now been administered worldwide. 16 months since the virus was identified.

average_runner

Supercell wrote: »

I hope the government are not trying to be cute hoors by opening up registration to the 40's and 50's cohorts at the same time with the plan to delay actually vaccinating the 50's cohort until the J&J comes though while pushing on vaccinating the 40's with mRNA vaccines. That's putting all their eggs in one basket.
What if J&J is delayed further down the line?, its going to leave a lot of very angry people in a demographic that gets out and votes.

There is a mental health aspect to all of this too, we all have had enough of the lockdowns, i think that's pretty fair to say.
If AZ is the only choice (for the 50's cohort) that's another summer lost to a group that has less ahead of them than behind them. Personally speaking I find that prospect quite depressing, I'd take the J&J over that choice any day, the 60's cohort registrations are telling a story of their own, i don't see that as mysterious at all - many are hoping not to have to take the AZ by delaying and maybe get offered a J&J or mRNA vaccine, I know thats what I'd be doing if I were in that cohort. What's to loose, they've already likely lost most of their summer, again.

How is it a summer gone? Over 60's are getting the AZ also.
If J&J is for over 50's and the AZ, then need to keep that stock for the over 50's and run the with the pzifer on the over 40's.


Using Pzifer on over 50's and leaving the 40's waiting longer as maybe no supply makes no sense.

The summer will be the same for everyone

duffman13

josip wrote: »

We can't actually, unless NIAC change the lower age limit for J&J in the next month.

Recommended for over 50s* however not exclusive to them. What is feasible is open to interpretation however the below from NIAC would indicate that they will have some system in place not to allow J&J go to waste should it come to pass. It took me a while to find that but they will use them.

NIAC already rolled back on AZ once from 60s to 50s so I would expect a further update at end of May roughly

As alternative vaccines are available, mRNA vaccines are recommended for
those aged under 50 years including those with medical conditions with very
high or high risk of severe COVID-19 disease.

In circumstances where a two-dose mRNA vaccination schedule is not a
feasible alternative, COVID-19 vaccine Janssen® can be considered for those
aged 18 – 49 years.