Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

AdamD

ginoginelli wrote: »

There seems to be a large dose of inverted snobbery on here with posters mocking people who want a more efficacious vaccine.

I'm at a higher risk of covid than others my age, so I'll very happily take anyone of them that's offered, but if given a choice i would definitely favour Pfizer or moderna over the others.

Likely because the real life results have shown that AZ may actually be more efficacious than both of those.

iamwhoiam

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

The one you get the quickest......

Exactly .,

PhilOssophy

Turtwig wrote: »

I want your opinion and your take. Not Google's which could be anything. What are you basing the idea that the PB isn't efficacious against the SA variant on?

Well I am only going on what I heard and read, just like your google would have done. Apparently, in Israel (which is far more realistic than any clinicial trial by any manufacturer) they have found an 8-fold increase in covid hospitalisations with the South African variant vs the original variant. This is in addition to the instances of Myocarditis which are also going unreported by RTE.

I'm 100% not trying to cause any alarm (because none is needed) but the fact that for weeks we've heard about blood clots rarer than car accidents, and RTE have gladly reported on all things even remotely bad about AZ/J&J, is extremely inaccurate reporting and needs to be called out. Because all it is creating is vaccine hesitancy among people.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

Likely because the real life results have shown that AZ may actually be more efficacious than both of those.

Do you have a link to that? It seems strange that their efficacy levels should be reversed in real life.

duffman13

ginoginelli wrote: »

There seems to be a large dose of inverted snobbery on here with posters mocking people who want a more efficacious vaccine.

I'm at a higher risk of covid than others my age, so I'll very happily take anyone of them that's offered, but if given a choice i would definitely favour Pfizer or moderna over the others.

The first one you get is the best one to be fair. AZ in the real world is looking like it may offer better long term protection. The clotting issue is a legitimate concern for people albeit small but saying one is more efficacious than the other doesn't stand up to scrutiny at this point.

All vaccines have side effects and Pfizer is under scrutiny for potential heart issues in younger people. People in January were saying they wouldn't get Pfizer after Norway (I think) suspended it. Given the newness of these vaccines, they'll all have ups and downs which is to be expected.

This thread has been fantastic in terms of sources of info and reassurance for some people. I hope it doesn't descent into the snobbery or inverse snobbery suggested.

All of the vaccines offer great protection, all of them offer an associated risk. People are free to make a choice based on their own preferences and research to be honest.

PhilOssophy

is_that_so wrote: »

Do you have a link to that? It seems strange that their efficacy levels should be reversed in real life.

Do you understand how a clinical trial works?

PhilOssophy

duffman13 wrote: »

The first one you get is the best one to be fair. AZ in the real world is looking like it may offer better long term protection. The clotting issue is a legitimate concern for people albeit small but saying one is more efficacious than the other doesn't stand up to scrutiny at this point.

All vaccines have side effects and Pfizer is under scrutiny for potential heart issues in younger people. People in January were saying they wouldn't get Pfizer after Norway (I think) suspended it. Given the newness of these vaccines, they'll all have ups and downs which is to be expected.

This thread has been fantastic in terms of sources of info and reassurance for some people. I hope it doesn't descent into the snobbery or inverse snobbery suggested.

All of the vaccines offer great protection, all of them offer an associated risk. People are free to make a choice based on their own preferences and research to be honest.

I fully agree with everything you have said there. My only major gripe with the whole thing is that RTE haven't been absolutely hammering a drum about how effective they all are against Covid and death, serious illness and hospitalisations. I watch the news most evenings (and no other current affairs) and this is not something they are saying. Instead they are focusing on the negatives, extremely rare blood clots, etc but only once connected with any vaccine other than Pfizer. Never once has the myocarditis issue being mentioned even though it is just as prevalent as the extremely rare blood clots
they got lots of segments out of.

I have no problem with any vaccine, will take any of them the minute I am offered one, but RTE need to understand the role of the daily news bulletins in informing people on these vaccines.

stephenjmcd

Father (65) got his text this morning. Appointment Monday afternoon. 2 weeks from register to appointment

is_that_so

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Do you understand how a clinical trial works?

Seeing as I'm about to be skooled by an "expert" I'll wait. Really no need for the 'tude. You do have a habit of swinging for people! I asked the poster for a link, to advance my own learning.

PhilOssophy

is_that_so wrote: »

Seeing as I'm about to be skooled by an "expert" I'll wait. Really no need for the 'tude. You do have a habit of swinging for people! I asked the poster for a link, to advance my own learning.

Go read up on them. I'm no expert but I've read a lot about them. You can do the same.
Do you really not understand why efficacy rates might change from a clinical trial to when they are administered in the real world?
(P.S. what's a "'tude"?)

is_that_so

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Go read up on them. I'm no expert but I've read a lot about them. You can do the same.
Do you really not understand why efficacy rates might change from a clinical trial to when they are administered in the real world?
(P.S. what's a "'tude"?)

Attitude - nah done all my own reading thanks just looking for some of this real world data.

Turtwig

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well I am only going on what I heard and read, just like your google would have done. Apparently, in Israel (which is far more realistic than any clinicial trial by any manufacturer) they have found an 8-fold increase in covid hospitalisations with the South African variant vs the original variant. This is in addition to the instances of Myocarditis which are also going unreported by RTE.

I'm 100% not trying to cause any alarm (because none is needed) but the fact that for weeks we've heard about blood clots rarer than car accidents, and RTE have gladly reported on all things even remotely bad about AZ/J&J, is extremely inaccurate reporting and needs to be called out. Because all it is creating is vaccine hesitancy among people.

I had no idea what you read so googling would be utterly pointless.
Now I have an idea of where you are coming from I can address it. Blind googling would not have made this possible.

The study you are referring to observed breakthrough infections in vaccinated people. This is to be expected. The majority of these occurred within two weeks after the first dose.
There were no breakthroughs observed 2 weeks after second Pfizer dose. Though that may down to restricted time frame of study. The authors were also unsure at that point in time whether standard social controls and restrictions also played a role in suppression.

Pfizer has no link as of yet to myocarditis. The original source of that story the Times of Israel even stated the level of the incidence was not beyond the natural background rate. It does need to be monitored. I don't know which way that will go. Myocarditis diagnosis is often subjective too.


With AZ there is a clear safety signal. We know for certain if 200,000 people get vaccinated we expect 1 to 2 of them to have the severe adverse clotting event. We would not expect them to encounter this event otherwise.

It's not incorrect to say that at this point in time the viral vectors are least safest option. They are still very very safe but there is a known adverse outcome that will happen to some individuals.

Sweet.Science

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Father (65) got his text this morning. Appointment Monday afternoon. 2 weeks from register to appointment

Good news . I'm waiting on my mams appt to come through to my phone . Shes ringing me every day asking me to check

secman

is_that_so wrote: »

Do you have a link to that? It seems strange that their efficacy levels should be reversed in real life.

Its not that they are reversed, trials were of a much smaller base , in thousands whereas the UK have used it in the millions almost 30 million io in real life accirding to Professor Luke O'NEIL its a very good vaccine.

The combination of L452R and E484Q mutations in B.1.617 do not confer substantial antibody evasion.

https://twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1388422656907780096?s=19

irishlad.

Thursday 29th: 39,367 doses administered

irishlad.

Seems to have been a slight reallocation of numbers, about 4k second doses in cohort 2 were moved to cohort 4

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cUZy6AMCwuA2zhtRuKK7cqMVgmhdDsGsZrFWJTkw9DY/edit#gid=502588836

timsey tiger

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I fully agree with everything you have said there. My only major gripe with the whole thing is that RTE haven't been absolutely hammering a drum about how effective they all are against Covid and death, serious illness and hospitalisations. I watch the news most evenings (and no other current affairs) and this is not something they are saying. Instead they are focusing on the negatives, extremely rare blood clots, etc but only once connected with any vaccine other than Pfizer. Never once has the myocarditis issue being mentioned even though it is just as prevalent as the extremely rare blood clots
they got lots of segments out of.

I have no problem with any vaccine, will take any of them the minute I am offered one, but RTE need to understand the role of the daily news bulletins in informing people on these vaccines.

Do you understand what the role of a public sector broadcaster is in a free society?

Hint: It is not to spout well intentioned propaganda.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-examining-heart-inflammation-cases-people-who-received-pfizer-covid-shot-2021-04-25/

I don't know where you got the information about the levels of myocarditis, seems from Reuters reporting that it is barely distinguishable from background levels if at all.

revelman

timsey tiger wrote: »

Do you understand what the role of a public sector broadcaster is in a free society?

Hint: It is not to spout well intentioned propaganda.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-examining-heart-inflammation-cases-people-who-received-pfizer-covid-shot-2021-04-25/

I don't know where you got the information about the levels of myocarditis, seems from Reuters reporting that it is barely distinguishable from background levels if at all.

What puzzles me about this is that myocarditis can happen in young people after viral infection e.g. the flu. We have had very few of these “normal” viruses circulating this year because of social distancing. So comparing this year’s incidence of myocarditis to previous years’ background levels is surely problematic? The Times of Israel was reporting cases that happened a number of days after the second dose of Pfizer. It is worth investigating this further, which I’m sure they are doing.

crossman47

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

I won't take AZ if it's offered to me

Your choice but a bad decision. Don't listen to those trying, for some reason, trying to make a mountain out of a very small molehill.

podgeandrodge

My mother got Pfizer first dose 4 weeks ago. Got a card saying 2nd dose today. We realised during week that there is no time on it. And she has got no text. We've been onto HSE during the week and all we got was "wait for the text". Today's the day and still no text. So we are going out on spec at the same time (because she sort of recalls the nurse that gave her the first one saying same time), and hope for the best.

But it's frustrating that the HSE helpline, though they could "confirm" that no text went out, couldn't confirm the appointment time today. All they could offer to do was initiate a new appointment request - which we declined for now in the hope that today works out.

crossman47

podgeandrodge wrote: »

My mother got Pfizer first dose 4 weeks ago. Got a card saying 2nd dose today. We realised during week that there is no time on it. And she has got no text. We've been onto HSE during the week and all we got was "wait for the text". Today's the day and still no text. So we are going out on spec at the same time (because she sort of recalls the nurse that gave her the first one saying same time), and hope for the best.

But it's frustrating that the HSE helpline, though they could "confirm" that no text went out, couldn't confirm the appointment time today. All they could offer to do was initiate a new appointment request - which we declined for now in the hope that today works out.

If it was Pfizer four weeks ago, that surely was from GP rather than HSE?

podgeandrodge

crossman47 wrote: »

If it was Pfizer four weeks ago, that surely was from GP rather than HSE?

No, her GP didn't do them (something to do with numbers over 70 in the practice). So the Helix. she's 80.

is_that_so

podgeandrodge wrote: »

No, her GP didn't do them (something to do with numbers over 70 in the practice). So the Helix. she's 80.

I saw somewhere that there is a session at the Helix this weekend, to do second doses.

podgeandrodge

is_that_so wrote: »

I saw somewhere that there is a session at the Helix this weekend, to do second doses.

That sorta confirms it. Yep, her second dose is marked on her appointment card for today. Just no time. So we'll take a punt on 3pm same time as last time, and hope for the best!

is_that_so

The HSE expects that some 4,500 doses could be administered at the mass vaccination centre at the Helix in Dublin City University on Saturday alone, close to its maximum capacity.

From this article.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hse-planning-to-administer-up-to-240-000-covid-19-vaccine-doses-next-week-1.4551254

Lucas Hood

podgeandrodge wrote: »

That sorta confirms it. Yep, her second dose is marked on her appointment card for today. Just no time. So we'll take a punt on 3pm same time as last time, and hope for the best!

Same thing happened my grandad. He got no time for 2nd dose out in Helix. Rang gp who said to ring hse.
Hse said just show up 4 weeks later for 2nd dose.

Amirani

My uncle in law's granny got her vaccine yesterday in the National Aquatic Centre, and she got Sputnik. Delighted not to get AZ.

TheDoctor

Amirani wrote: »

My uncle in law's granny got her vaccine yesterday in the National Aquatic Centre, and she got Sputnik. Delighted not to get AZ.

Great news

secman

Amirani wrote: »

My uncle in law's granny got her vaccine yesterday in the National Aquatic Centre, and she got Sputnik. Delighted not to get AZ.

Just as well you and your uncles cousin granny haven't googled the sputnik