Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

twiglet24

My husband and I are both late 50s and also both Cohort 7. Husband rang GP on Friday to check what is happening and was told that actually they have us both down as Cohort 4, but are currently not doing either there. Then they made reference to registration for over 50s starting this week - the implication seeming to be that we will get our jabs more quickly that way. Are we likely to be taken off the cohort 4/7 list if we register as over 50s? With all the talk of delays for over 50s we are getting worried!

iguana

Vaccinated30 wrote: »

I asked someone similar why would the government want to kill off its citizens who listen to them, all the Dr's and Nurses and HCW and keep the ones who are protesting and causing trouble and hate them Alive. If anything it would be those people to be killed off if they wanted to reduce population

That's actually great. I've kind of cut myself off from the crazies that I know but now if I do somehow get into a discussion with one of them I've got my comeback. "So you think that the world governments want to kill off a portion of the population? But think they are stupid enough to concoct a plan that kills off the people who's "gullibility" makes them obedient? That's just moronic. If they are killing off lots of people, it's people like you who "see through them" that they'd want rid of. The vaccine will be perfectly safe and it will be the arnica and echinacea tablets they'll be poisoning or micro-chipping.":cool:

blackcard

timsey tiger wrote: »

Let me guess you are 44. Why do you think they didn't?

I am over 50. If you allow AstraZeneca and J&J to over 45, there is a risk that 2-3 people get a blood clot. However if you delay the rollout of the vaccine program by 2 weeks, you could be looking at an extra 2-3 deaths per day, more people with long covid, more people hospitalized and the additional costs to the economy

Lucas Hood

19,109 new vaccines reported by hse for Saturday.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-01-may-2021.pdf

iamwhoiam

twiglet24 wrote: »

My husband and I are both late 50s and also both Cohort 7. Husband rang GP on Friday to check what is happening and was told that actually they have us both down as Cohort 4, but are currently not doing either there. Then they made reference to registration for over 50s starting this week - the implication seeming to be that we will get our jabs more quickly that way. Are we likely to be taken off the cohort 4/7 list if we register as over 50s? With all the talk of delays for over 50s we are getting worried!

Thats absolutely madness .Then what if you were only 30 or 25 ? Did he expect them to wait for their age registration ? Cohort 4 and in particular 7 are being let down badly .

mugsymugsy

Agree about cohort 4 and 7 being completely messed around. It doesn't help the differing approaches that is happening in different gps/hospitals.

Question is this down to supply to gps of vaccines or poor admin by gps/hospitals or a combo of both.

Some gps/hospitals seem to be doing really well and others from posts are beyond a joke.

Lumen

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Cohort 4 and in particular 7 are being let down badly .

I haven't seen any analysis of exactly how higher risk cohort 7 are than their age group. Have you?

All we have is the fact that they've been labelled "high risk".

People might be worrying unnecessarily.

Skygord

Lumen wrote: »

I haven't seen any analysis of exactly how higher risk cohort 7 are than their age group. Have you?

All we have is the fact that they've been labelled "high risk".

People might be worrying unnecessarily.

National policy was to identify which medical conditions are vulnerable - and that manifested itself with the criteria for cohorts 4 & 7.

The rollout programme is allowing some in cohort 4, and lots in cohort 7, to fall between the cracks due to confusions between whether they were on their consultants/GP/both lists, and now with some GP's opting out of the vaccination programme - and leaving their cohort 4's and cohort 7's with only the age-based portal. The HSE is failing to implement the cohort-based rollout for these, and until there is an MVC path for them their GP's are also letting them down.

Lumen

Skygord wrote: »

National policy was to identify which medical conditions are vulnerable - and that manifested itself with the criteria for cohorts 4 & 7.

The rollout programme is allowing some in cohort 4, and lots in cohort 7, to fall between the cracks due to confusions between whether they were on their consultants/GP/both lists, and now with some GP's opting out of the vaccination programme - and leaving their cohort 4's and cohort 7's with only the age-based portal. The HSE is failing to implement the cohort-based rollout for these, and until there is an MVC path for them their GP's are also letting them down.

Sure, but none of that addresses my question of what the relative risk is.

Skygord

Lumen wrote: »

Sure, but none of that addresses my question of what the relative risk is.

If you want to know, ask the medical experts who analysed all the medical conditions - and slotted them into the cohort-based vaccination programme.

My point is a failing of implementing the rollout policy to these cohorts.

Re Donnelly's statement in Feb: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b44b2-minister-donnelly-announces-update-to-vaccine-allocation-strategy/
...

Revised Cohort 7
Those aged 16-64 and at high risk of severe COVID-19 disease.

Cancer
Haematological - within 1 year.

Haematological - within 1 - 5 years.

Non-haematological - within 1 year.

All other cancers on non-hormonal treatment.

Chronic heart (and vascular) disease
Chronic heart disease, for example: heart failure, hypertensive cardiac disease.

Chronic kidney disease
Chronic kidney disease with eGFR <30ml/min.

Chronic liver disease
Chronic liver disease, for example: cirrhosis or fibrosis.

Chronic neurological disease or condition
Chronic neurological disease or condition significantly compromising respiratory function and/or the ability to clear secretions, for example: Parkinson's disease, cerebral palsy.

Chronic respiratory disease
Other chronic respiratory disease, for example: stable cystic fibrosis, severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids), moderate COPD.

Diabetes
All other diabetes (Type 1 and 2).

Immunocompromised
Immunocompromise due to disease or treatment, for example: high dose systemic steroids (as defined in Immunisation Guidelines for Ireland Chapter 3), persons living with HIV.

Inherited metabolic diseases*
Disorders of intermediary metabolism not fulfilling criteria for very high risk.

Intellectual disability*
Intellectual disability*** excluding Down Syndrome.

Obesity
BMI >35 Kg/m2.

Severe mental illness*
Severe mental illness, for example: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression.

*additional or updated medical conditions

** APECED - autoimmune polyendocrinopathy candidiasis ecto- dermal dystrophy

*** WHO definition of intellectual disability as “impairments in adaptive, social, and intellectual functioning (IQ<70), requiring daily support, with onset in the developmental phase (<18 years)”

Lumen

Skygord wrote: »

If you want to know, ask the medical experts who analysed all the medical conditions - and slotted them into the cohort-based vaccination programme.

My point is a failing of implementing the rollout policy to these cohorts.

Ask them how? Why is the risk analysis not public?

To be clear, I agree it's a fcuk up, I just don't know how much it matters.

iamwhoiam

Lumen wrote: »

I haven't seen any analysis of exactly how higher risk cohort 7 are than their age group. Have you?

All we have is the fact that they've been labelled "high risk".

People might be worrying unnecessarily.

The cohort 4 and 7 was set out by NHPET . It must be based on their information and science I presume. Yet they completely messed it up and many falling between the GP clinic / consultant and getting no answers from any of them

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The cohort 4 and 7 was set out by NHPET . It must be based on their information and science I presume. Yet they completely messed it up and many falling between the GP clinic / consultant and getting no answers from any of them

Here for example is Cohort 4


Cancer

All cancer patients actively receiving (and/or within 6 weeks of receiving) systemic therapy with cytotoxic chemotherapy, targeted therapy, monoclonal antibodies or immunotherapies and radical surgery or radiotherapy for lung or head and neck cancer.

All patients with advanced/metastatic cancers.

Chronic kidney disease

Chronic kidney disease, on dialysis, or eGFR <15 ml/min.

Chronic neurological disease or condition

Chronic neurological disease or condition with evolving ventilatory failure (requiring non-invasive ventilation), for example: motor neurone disease, spinal muscular atrophy.

Chronic respiratory disease

Chronic severe respiratory disease, for example: severe cystic fibrosis, severe COPD, severe pulmonary fibrosis.

Diabetes

Diabetes and HbA1C ≥58mmol/mol

Immunocompromised

Severe immunocompromise due to disease or treatment, for example:

transplantation: - Listed for solid organ or haematopoietic stem cell transplant (HSCT) - Post solid organ transplant at any time - Post HSCT within 12 months
genetic diseases: - APECED** - Inborn errors in the interferon pathway
treatment: - included but not limited to Cyclophosphamide, Rituximab, Alemtuzumab, Cladribine or Ocrelizumab in the last 6 months
Inherited metabolic diseases*

Disorders of intermediary metabolism/at risk of acute decompensation, for example: Maple Syrup Urine Disease.

Intellectual disability*

Down Syndrome.

Obesity

BMI >40 Kg/m2.

Sickle cell disease*




And here is Cohort 7 many who still have no answer as to when or where they will be done



Cancer

Haematological - within 1 year.

Haematological - within 1 - 5 years.

Non-haematological - within 1 year.

All other cancers on non-hormonal treatment.

Chronic heart (and vascular) disease

Chronic heart disease, for example: heart failure, hypertensive cardiac disease.

Chronic kidney disease

Chronic kidney disease with eGFR <30ml/min.

Chronic liver disease

Chronic liver disease, for example: cirrhosis or fibrosis.

Chronic neurological disease or condition

Chronic neurological disease or condition significantly compromising respiratory function and/or the ability to clear secretions, for example: Parkinson's disease, cerebral palsy.

Chronic respiratory disease

Other chronic respiratory disease, for example: stable cystic fibrosis, severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids), moderate COPD.

Diabetes

All other diabetes (Type 1 and 2).

Immunocompromised

Immunocompromise due to disease or treatment, for example: high dose systemic steroids (as defined in Immunisation Guidelines for Ireland Chapter 3), persons living with HIV.

Inherited metabolic diseases*

Disorders of intermediary metabolism not fulfilling criteria for very high risk.

Intellectual disability*

Intellectual disability*** excluding Down Syndrome.

Obesity

BMI >35 Kg/m2.

Severe mental illness*

Severe mental illness, for example: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression.

*additional or updated medical conditions

** APECED - autoimmune polyendocrinopathy candidiasis ecto- dermal dystrophy

*** WHO definition of intellectual disability as “impairments in adaptive, social, and intellectual functioning (IQ<70), requiring daily support, with onset in the developmental phase

Klonker

When they updated the rollout from occupation based to more age based they should have did themselves a favour and removed cohort 7 altogether and just do them with their relevant age groups. They are kind of falling in the cracks between GPs, hospitals and MVCs. Probably to late to change at this stage though.

Skygord

Klonker wrote: »

When they updated the rollout from occupation based to more age based they should have did themselves a favour and removed cohort 7 altogether and just do them with their relevant age groups. They are kind of falling in the cracks between GPs, hospitals and MVCs. Probably to late to change at this stage though.

Take a look through the above listed conditions that someone has to suffer with to be in cohort 7 - note especially how often the word "chronic" appears.

If they are young, they would have to wait a long time to be vaccinated as we work down through the age groups - hence the assignment to a medically high risk cohort. It just isn't being implemented.

Russman

PhilOssophy wrote: »

But they ignored it not based on data evidence or trends, rather on a "oh well there's an absolutely miniscule risk here so we won't be allowing it even if it is 1 in a million, similar to the risk of a car crash".



Complete no brainer. It should never have been added in the first place.

I’ll be the first to applaud if the advice changes, but we don’t know what detailed data they had or hadn’t when they made their decision. Now, I don’t necessarily think we should have that data, as it leads to the likes of us discussing it on here, telling a panel of experts that they’re wrong. They didn’t put in the restriction for the craic that’s for sure, and they’re not stupid, I’m sure they’re acutely aware of how it impacts the rollout. My risk tolerance or your risk tolerance might be completely different to what a medical body might deem acceptable on a population level.
I think the decision is massively inconvenient but I can’t call it wrong or stupid.

robinbird

Klonker wrote: »

When they updated the rollout from occupation based to more age based they should have did themselves a favour and removed cohort 7 altogether and just do them with their relevant age groups. They are kind of falling in the cracks between GPs, hospitals and MVCs. Probably to late to change at this stage though.

Not really. Take a look at the criteria for Cohort 7. They are very broad and open to interpretation. They include

Fat people
People with a "mental disorder"
Asthma ( every hypochondriac in the country)

I know of several perfectly healthy people that have gotten referrals from their GPs under Cohort 7.
This also meshes with the irish mentality whereby people think they are jumping the queue or getting special treatment.

So I don't see a particular issue with the rollout continuing as is.

May.
Astra Zeneca. From what I can tell most of those in their 60s that wanted it have now gotten it. Complete this cohort as priority
Open portal to those in their 50s and begin using Astra on them.
There may not be as many register as they anticipate.

Johnson & Johnson: Give to travellers, romas gypsies, drug users and homeless as intended. Use as well on those that want a Cohort 7 referral but are unable or unwilling to travel to vaccination centre or doctors surgery. Any in this category that don't want J&J will be told to wait till late June for home visit with Pfizer.


Pfiszer/Moderan
Complete second doses. Continue to allow doctors make referrals at their discretion from their patient lists under Cohort 7.

If anyone in 50s/60s don't want Astra they have the option of going to their GP and asking for a Cohort 7 referral for Pfizer

June
This is when we are going to begin running into vaccine hesitancy. We won't get to 80% because there is way more than 20% that don't want a vaccine.
Use methods to persuade them. Scare them with rising case numbers, put travel restrictions in place for those that still refuse.
Give people a vaccine choice from June until everyone that wants a vaccine will get one, probably by mid June.
Maybe open portal to everyone over 30 from beginning on June
Anyone over 16 from mid June
Give any surplus away as "humanitarian" gesture to poorer countries.

July
Start vaccinating the children.

iamwhoiam

robinbird wrote: »

Not really. Take a look at the criteria for Cohort 7. They are very broad and open to interpretation. They include

Fat people
People with a "mental disorder"
Asthma ( every hypochondriac in the country)

I know of several perfectly healthy people that have gotten referrals from their GPs under Cohort 7.

So I don't see a particular issue with the rollout .

Have you forgotten all these people in cohort 7 ?



And here is Cohort 7 many who still have no answer as to when or where they will be done



Cancer

Haematological - within 1 year.

Haematological - within 1 - 5 years.

Non-haematological - within 1 year.

All other cancers on non-hormonal treatment.

Chronic heart (and vascular) disease

Chronic heart disease, for example: heart failure, hypertensive cardiac disease.

Chronic kidney disease

Chronic kidney disease with eGFR <30ml/min.

Chronic liver disease

Chronic liver disease, for example: cirrhosis or fibrosis.

Chronic neurological disease or condition

Chronic neurological disease or condition significantly compromising respiratory function and/or the ability to clear secretions, for example: Parkinson's disease, cerebral palsy.

Chronic respiratory disease

Other chronic respiratory disease, for example: stable cystic fibrosis, severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids), moderate COPD.

Diabetes

All other diabetes (Type 1 and 2).

Immunocompromised

Immunocompromise due to disease or treatment, for example: high dose systemic steroids (as defined in Immunisation Guidelines for Ireland Chapter 3), persons living with HIV.

Inherited metabolic diseases*

Disorders of intermediary metabolism not fulfilling criteria for very high risk.

Intellectual disability*

Intellectual disability*** excluding Down Syndrome.

Obesity

BMI >35 Kg/m2.

Severe mental illness*

Severe mental illness, for example: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression.

*additional or updated medical conditions

** APECED - autoimmune polyendocrinopathy candidiasis ecto- dermal dystrophy

*** WHO definition of intellectual disability as “impairments in adaptive, social, and intellectual functioning (IQ<70), requiring daily support, with onset in the developmental phase

Lumen

robinbird wrote: »

Not really. Take a look at the criteria for Cohort 7. They are very broad and open to interpretation. They include

Fat people
People with a "mental disorder"
Asthma ( every hypochondriac in the country)

I think you should stick to your day job of international diplomacy.

irishlad.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cUZy6AMCwuA2zhtRuKK7cqMVgmhdDsGsZrFWJTkw9DY/edit#gid=1421952725


Also latest ECDC figures show there's 1,928,880 vaccines in the country.

astrofool

harrylittle wrote: »

Its recklessly criminal

False, it's quite a sensible measure to ensure that our children don't become sick as well and only a stupid anti-vax idiot would imply that giving vaccines to children is criminal. A person like that will be responsible for the deaths of many due to children dying from diseases that vaccines protect them from, there is no lower level of disdain that these people should be held in.

moonage wrote: »

Hesitancy? No, most of them just don't want to take it.

Maybe the French don't overestimate the threat that covid poses, and those less vulnerable don't see the need for vaccination.

Maybe they're more aware that clinical trials will still be going for years and so know that safety data is lacking.

Maybe they're better at weighing the risks versus benefits and most decide against the jab.

France's vaccine rollout has been going well so far and easily matching the rest of Europe, indicating that they find the idiotic anti-vax rhetoric pushed by people like yourself, completely idiotic and without substance.

There is no clinical trials ongoing around safety of vaccines, there is studies going on into the efficacy effects of the vaccines, please stop posting lies and misinformation.

In every case the benefits of the vaccines win and people are taking them in their hundreds of millions, soon to be billions, and the anti-vax idiots will be the ones left dying (or already died as they have in America where they held Covid parties and then died afterwards, or held mass rallies and then died afterwards, or held large church gatherings and then died afterwards, do you see a pattern forming here or can an anti-vax mind only see patterns where they don't exist?).

TheDoctor

The prediction of 140K-160K doses this week was a bit of a miscalculation.

irishlad.

TheDoctor wrote: »

The prediction of 140K-160K doses this week was a bit of a miscalculation.

Far better than overestimating!

That Astrazeneca delivery last week was the main worry

ginoginelli

Cohort 7 are really being ****ed around here. They were scheduled to be starting today, gps and hse seem to be shifting the responsibility to each other. It's a mess.

The vaccine team really need to come out with something concrete this week.

trellheim

New Monthly High for total shots.

April : 707319
Previously : March 425678, Feb 215708, Pre-Feb 230766

This weekend's numbers not in yet but its looking like the best week so far ( and by "in" I refer to published sources).

robinbird

ginoginelli wrote: »

Cohort 7 are really being ****ed around here. They were scheduled to be starting today, gps and hse seem to be shifting the responsibility to each other. It's a mess.

The vaccine team really need to come out with something concrete this week.

Pfizer is now supplying 180,000 doses a week.
Given that over 70s and Cohort 4 are more or less complete surely a large proportion of these are going on Cohort 7 referrals from doctors patient lists.
Exception for logistical reasons is those that want a cohort 7 referral but are not prepared to travel. These people should be offered J&J.

robinbird

robinbird wrote: »

Pfizer is now supplying 180,000 doses a week.
Given that over 70s and Cohort 4 are more or less complete surely a large proportion of these are going on Cohort 7 referrals from doctors patient lists.
Exception for logistical reasons is those that want a cohort 7 referral but are not prepared to travel. These people should be offered J&J.

GPs are basically not being given any concrete information on deliveries for this cohort so haven't been able to schedule appointments. Many have submitted their lists but nothing back from the HSE.

stephenjmcd

TheDoctor wrote: »

The prediction of 140K-160K doses this week was a bit of a miscalculation.

They did the same the week before. Under estimated both weeks by about 40k.

The AZ delviery was changed 3 times for last week so you can see why they'd have been conservative

trellheim

Followup : per
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/45a24-update-on-covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-wednesday-28th-april-2021/

Total deliveries in as of we week ago

1,572,779 doses of COVID-19 vaccine administered vs 1,715,400 delivered. With an expected week lag included ( those numbers are about 7 days old )

1572779/1715400 = 91.6% so slower than the target 95% . By HSE own targets they should be able to go even faster but it may be margin of error here as those numbers are of 28 April for deliveries but saying that a large shipment of Pfizer arrived that wasnt in those numbers ....

Wolf359f

trellheim wrote: »

New Monthly High for total shots.

April : 707319
Previously : March 425678, Feb 215708, Pre-Feb 230766

This weekend's numbers not in yet but its looking like the best week so far ( and by "in" I refer to published sources).

The target for April was 860k, so down 150k.