Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

funnydoggy

For what it's worth, my gf got the Moderna (also mRNA) and had a metallic taste in her mouth too

stephenjmcd

Father got his first dose of AZ this afternoon. MVC well run, in and out in around 30 minutes

cameramonkey

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1389183075045740549?s=21

That is chancing your arm, would not fill you with confidence when they cant even figure out what month we are in.

TheDoctor

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1389183075045740549?s=21

Well that's an aggressive use of the calendar.

Should take the full last week of March into April and really boost the figure!

TheDoctor

cameramonkey wrote: »

That is chancing your arm, would not fill you with confidence when they cant even figure out what month we are in.

As long as we are in a good place by 31 June.

Bubbaclaus

cameramonkey wrote: »

That is chancing your arm, would not fill you with confidence when they cant even figure out what month we are in.

HSE deals in working weeks, so understandable why they would report in this way. 29 March to 2 May is Weeks 13-17 I believe.

Cooled1

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1389183075045740549?s=21

707k doses in April versus Leo's prediction of 1.2M doses

Cluedo Monopoly

Just curious, is the portal easy to use? What kind of unique ID do you need for it? PPS?

Turtwig

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

HSE deals in working weeks, so understandable why they would report in this way. 29 March to 2 May is Weeks 13-17 I believe.

If they're consistent there's no issue. If they chose to report the figures that way only for April to give a higher number that's an issue.

Vaccinated30

Vaccinated30 wrote: »

The metallic taste in my mouth was gone when I woke up this morning, I have been tested an if negative should I report the side effect from the vaccine?

If the test is negative in addition to reporting it as a possible side effect it might be an idea to get a GP to do some blood tests, not medical advice but metallic taste can be a sign of B12 deficiency, and you can sometimes get a scratchy throat.

CrowdedHouse

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Just curious, is the portal easy to use? What kind of unique ID do you need for it? PPS?

I did it for a neighbour -

You need a PPS num/email/mobile

Biggest pain 10 character password including a capital and special character, could be a bit of awkward on a phone

Cooled1

Cooled1 wrote: »

707k doses in April versus Leo's prediction of 1.2M doses

In January he predicted 100k a week in April.

heyjude

Wolf359f wrote: »

If people are as ill-informed as yourself, then yes they will refuse an effective and safe vaccine. I guess you wouldn't take Moderna as it's 'less effective' as Pfizer?

The efficacy rates of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are virtually the same
at 95% and 94.5%,(so you guessed wrongly) but to compare that to the
efficacy rate for AstraZeneca which according to the European Medicines
Agency is 60%, or to the Johnson & Johnson whose efficacy rate was 72%
in the US and just 57% in South Africa, is something else.

If you don't like the term 'dumped' then lets say they are allocating the
'leftovers' to the 50s cohort, the vaccines that are leftover after they
have allocated vaccines to all other lower age groups first and which will
may otherwise go to waste. I might question why despite the figures from the
UK, showing that the average age of people who suffered cerebral venous
sinus thrombosis (CVST or blood clots in the brain) was 47 years old and the
average age of those who suffered other "major thromboembolic events" along
with thrombocytopenia - low platelet counts was 55 years old.
(https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2021/0422/1211516-uk-astrazeneca/ ), we are
intending to use the AstraZeneca and the similar Johnson & Johnson vaccines
almost exclusively on people in their 50s, despite them being the age group
which features the average age or age band for these adverse events in the
UK.

As for the assertion that a single shot of the AZ vaccine offers broadly
speaking, a similar level of protection as the one shot Johnson & Johnson
vaccine, that information came from the Chief Medical Officer, Dr Tony
Holohan ( https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40278833.html ). So if
that isn't true, then take it up with him, but it does mean that either the
second AZ shot offers little extra protection or the Johnson & Johnson
vaccine offers significantly less protection than the 2 shot AZ.

As for my saying that the vaccination programme had already been changed
over 20 times, it was reported by RTE on 1st May that "The HSE said plans
are being finalised over the weekend on the 27th version of the national
vaccination programme."
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0501/1213217-coronavirus-ireland/



Calling people that you don't agree with ill-informed is hardly the way
forward and as for being ill informed, I should remind you that when they
were offering the same Astra Zeneca vaccine to healthcare staff a few months
ago, they too were disatisfied at being offered the "least efficacious"
vaccine. But maybe they are ill informed too.

I should remind you that a few years ago, people were warned that if they
didn't register for Irish Water by 31st Oct, then they would lose their
entitlement to a 'free water allowance', many people felt intimidated and
registered, but 3 weeks after the deadline, the government met and decided
to abolish the free water allowance altogether and it subsequently emerged
that almost half of households had not registered. So just because the government says
something, doesn't necessarily mean that, that is how it will turn out. The government
changes its mind all the time and there have been 26 previous covid 19 vaccine programmes
and are likely to be several more.

Stheno

Christ almighty

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1389239662611415040?s=19

revelman

heyjude wrote: »

The efficacy rates of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are virtually the same
at 95% and 94.5%,(so you guessed wrongly) but to compare that to the
efficacy rate for AstraZeneca which according to the European Medicines
Agency is 60%, or to the Johnson & Johnson whose efficacy rate was 72%
in the US and just 57% in South Africa, is something else.

If you don't like the term 'dumped' then lets say they are allocating the
'leftovers' to the 50s cohort, the vaccines that are leftover after they
have allocated vaccines to all other lower age groups first and which will
may otherwise go to waste. I might question why despite the figures from the
UK, showing that the average age of people who suffered cerebral venous
sinus thrombosis (CVST or blood clots in the brain) was 47 years old and the
average age of those who suffered other "major thromboembolic events" along
with thrombocytopenia - low platelet counts was 55 years old.
(https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2021/0422/1211516-uk-astrazeneca/ ), we are
intending to use the AstraZeneca and the similar Johnson & Johnson vaccines
almost exclusively on people in their 50s, despite them being the age group
which features the average age or age band for these adverse events in the
UK.

As for the assertion that a single shot of the AZ vaccine offers broadly
speaking, a similar level of protection as the one shot Johnson & Johnson
vaccine, that information came from the Chief Medical Officer, Dr Tony
Holohan ( https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40278833.html ). So if
that isn't true, then take it up with him, but it does mean that either the
second AZ shot offers little extra protection or the Johnson & Johnson
vaccine offers significantly less protection than the 2 shot AZ.

As for my saying that the vaccination programme had already been changed
over 20 times, it was reported by RTE on 1st May that "The HSE said plans
are being finalised over the weekend on the 27th version of the national
vaccination programme."
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0501/1213217-coronavirus-ireland/



Calling people that you don't agree with ill-informed is hardly the way
forward and as for being ill informed, I should remind you that when they
were offering the same Astra Zeneca vaccine to healthcare staff a few months
ago, they too were disatisfied at being offered the "least efficacious"
vaccine. But maybe they are ill informed too.

I should remind you that a few years ago, people were warned that if they
didn't register for Irish Water by 31st Oct, then they would lose their
entitlement to a 'free water allowance', many people felt intimidated and
registered, but 3 weeks after the deadline, the government met and decided
to abolish the free water allowance altogether and it subsequently emerged
that almost half of households had not registered. So just because the government says
something, doesn't necessarily mean that, that is how it will turn out. The government
changes its mind all the time and there have been 26 previous covid 19 vaccine programmes
and are likely to be several more.

All the approved vaccines are 100% effective in preventing hospitalisation and death from COVID.

ACitizenErased

Stheno wrote: »

Christ almighty

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1389239662611415040?s=19

no hurry

SJFly

ACitizenErased wrote: »

no hurry

In fairness, it's a really tough decision. Either you're going to have over 50s aggrieved if they are delayed, or everyone else (including sensible over 50s) furious if our rollout and opening up is jeopardised.
If there is some clever way to manage this, with minimal disruption to the rollout, it would be worth taking the time to get this right.

Stheno

SJFly wrote: »

In fairness, it's a really tough decision. Either you're going to have over 50s aggrieved if they are delayed, or everyone else (including sensible over 50s) furious if our rollout and opening up is jeopardised.
If there is some clever way to manage this, with minimal disruption to the rollout, it would be worth taking the time to get this right.

In fairness they've had plenty of time.

SJFly

Stheno wrote: »

In fairness they've had plenty of time.

They haven't even received the options yet if the tweet above is accurate

Stheno

SJFly wrote: »

They haven't even received the options yet if the tweet above is accurate

I meant whoever is supposed to put together the recommendations, not the Cabinet

ACitizenErased

SJFly wrote: »

In fairness, it's a really tough decision. Either you're going to have over 50s aggrieved if they are delayed, or everyone else (including sensible over 50s) furious if our rollout and opening up is jeopardised.
If there is some clever way to manage this, with minimal disruption to the rollout, it would be worth taking the time to get this right.

The recommendation has been in place over a week now. I'd have expected a plan as fast as they've done the plans in the past.

Strazdas

SJFly wrote: »

In fairness, it's a really tough decision. Either you're going to have over 50s aggrieved if they are delayed, or everyone else (including sensible over 50s) furious if our rollout and opening up is jeopardised.
If there is some clever way to manage this, with minimal disruption to the rollout, it would be worth taking the time to get this right.

I would suggest that if the plan is to delay the over 50s, then for goodness sake don't open up the portal for them. It would be very unfair to ask them to register at a time when mass vaccinations are going on across the country, but then leave them waiting for weeks or even months to receive a vaccine.

Surely the whole point of an online portal is that you have a vaccine available and ready to give to them.

revelman

Strazdas wrote: »

I would suggest that if the plan is to delay the over 50s, then for goodness sake don't open up the portal for them. It would be very unfair to ask them to register at a time when mass vaccinations are going on across the country, but then leave them waiting for weeks or even months to receive a vaccine.

Surely the whole point of an online portal is that you have a vaccine available and ready to give to them.

There will be no recommendation to delay over 50s surely. Where has this idea come from? We have plenty of AZ to get going on the 59s and we have 400k more AZ due this month.

snotboogie

revelman wrote: »

There will be no recommendation to delay over 50s surely. Where has this idea come from? We have plenty of AZ to get going on the 59s and we have 400k more AZ due this month.

What is done with Pfizer in your plan?

revelman

snotboogie wrote: »

What is done with Pfizer in your plan?

I think Pfizer should go mostly to under 50s but should make up any shortfall in the MVCs in the over 50s. The bulk of vaccines to the over 50s should be AZ and J&J.

Strazdas

revelman wrote: »

There will be no recommendation to delay over 50s surely. Where has this idea come from? We have plenty of AZ to get going on the 59s and we have 400k more AZ due this month.

I think it comes from the rumours that the over 40s portal could run almost simultaneously with the over 50s, plus the fact that J & J can only be given to the 50s, meaning they (the 50s or many of them) could nearly be shoved aside and left waiting for weeks.

ACitizenErased

revelman wrote: »

I think Pfizer should go mostly to under 50s but should make up any shortfall in the MVCs in the over 50s. The bulk of vaccines to the over 50s should be AZ and J&J.

That means over 50s and under 50s being vaccinated at the same time. Also means under 50s (probably 40s) will be vaccinated quicker than over 50s as they have to wait for enough AZ and J&J to arrive.

Strazdas

revelman wrote: »

I think Pfizer should go mostly to under 50s but should make up any shortfall in the MVCs in the over 50s. The bulk of vaccines to the over 50s should be AZ and J&J.

Why not all four vaccines for the over 50s though? It would mean flying through them and that the over 40s portal could open relatively quickly afterwards.

revelman

revelman wrote: »

Here are German predictions for delivery of vaccines in May and June (as of Friday).

This document outlines the number of vaccines to go to GP offices: https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/fileadmin/Dateien/3_Downloads/C/Coronavirus/Impfstoff/Lieferprognose_Praxen-Betriebsaerzte_2._Quartal.pdf

The second document outlines the number of vaccines going to MVCs: https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/fileadmin/Dateien/3_Downloads/C/Coronavirus/Impfstoff/Lieferungen_Bu-Laender_Impfzentren_2._Quartal.pdf

I’m most interested in AZ delivery, as Pfizer looks relatively stable and we will need AZ for over 50s here, especially if J&J doesn’t pull through. So far, the Germans are expecting 3.15 million AZ vaccines in May. Adjusting for population, this would mean 189,975 AZ vaccines for us here in Ireland in May. I am assuming that this is not everything since only the first two weeks of May seem to have AZ deliveries. If AZ deliver in weeks 3 and 4 of May in the same way, we could have 380,000 AZ vaccines arriving in May.

Caveat. These are back-of-the-envelope calculations mixed with speculation so don’t quote me on this!

Reposting this to explain how I arrived at the 400k AZ figure for this month.

timsey tiger

Strazdas wrote: »

I think it comes from the rumours that the over 40s portal could run almost simultaneously with the over 50s, plus the fact that J & J can only be given to the 50s, meaning they (the 50s or many of them) could nearly be shoved aside and left waiting for weeks.

Well somebody has to wait and we are all waiting for herd immunity. What is the strategy to minimise to overall wait time?