Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Qrt

Is that the one that essentially restarted trials?

Corholio

PaulJoseph22 wrote: »

They said the same about AZ.

It's a different type of vaccine to the AZ one. It's in early testing as I said, cynicism against everything isn't that healthy.

Corholio

Qrt wrote: »

Is that the one that essentially restarted trials?

I think they had smaller trials and are now preparing much larger scale trials.

Qrt

Corholio wrote: »

I think they had smaller trials and are now preparing much larger scale trials.

Ah yes, I was getting mixed up with the french one, Sanofi/GSK?

GazzaL

I'll take the AstraZeneca, the Johnson & Johnson, the Sputnik, or the Sinovac vaccine. Tens of millions of people in the UK have had the AstraZeneca vaccine without any issue. Get the vaccines flowing ffs.

The zero risk approach is outrageous, pushed by people who are completely unaffected by the consequences of delaying the vaccine rollout.

Beasty

Threads merged

funnydoggy

Beasty wrote: »

Threads merged

Me nerves :pac:

Danzy

funnydoggy wrote: »

Me nerves :pac:

Side effects? 😉

Danzy

GazzaL wrote: »

I'll take the AstraZeneca, the Johnson & Johnson, the Sputnik, or the Sinovac vaccine. Tens of millions of people in the UK have had the AstraZeneca vaccine without any issue. Get the vaccines flowing ffs.

The zero risk approach is outrageous, pushed by people who are completely unaffected by the consequences of delaying the vaccine rollout.

Completely agree, have reviews but keep vaccination program going while doing it.

I'm not anti lockdown etc but there isn't enough awareness on the damage done already and the damage done by prolonging.

There will be many more dead from the delay than the poor unfortunates who get the clot.

Danzy

brickster69 wrote: »

Following a large increase in deaths of older people in Italy. New PM Mario Draghi announces by decree today that all vaccines will be prioritized for use on the over 70's. It has been 10 weeks since vaccines were available in Italy and 65% of the over 85's have still not been jabbed. Unbelievable that countries would not give priority to the group where 85% of covid deaths come from.

Many places in Germany took Easter off, up to 5 days in some cities.

Lack of urgency on the continent.

Strazdas

Neleven wrote: »

Johnson and Johnson have announced the suspension of their vaccine due to the finding of 6 cases of CVST in 7 million doses (less than one case per million), following on from the suspension of Astra Zeneca to all but the over 60s for the same reason. A quick google of peer-reviewed sources suggests that the incidence of CVST in the general population, pre-Covid, ranged from 7 per million to 15 per million. According to an article in the Irish Times( April 12th) there were 223 cases of CVST and another clotting issue (SVT) in 34 million AZ doses - a rate of about 6.5 per million.
I am no scientist, but the figures suggest that in the vaccinated population there is no greater incidence of CVST than would be expected in the unvaccinated population. In fact, in some studies it's considerably lower. Am I missing something?

It might be a clever move by Johnson & Johnson to suspend their own vaccine in Europe. It shows they are being responsible and are trying not to get themselves an AstraZeneca type reputation.

lucernarian

funnydoggy wrote: »

Me nerves :pac:

Oh god, not another merge... These keep derailing the main topic.

odyssey06

lucernarian wrote: »

Oh god, not another merge... These keep derailing the main topic.

Prepare to repel boarders...

ACitizenErased

Strazdas wrote: »

It might be a clever move by Johnson & Johnson to suspend their own vaccine in Europe. It shows they are being responsible and are trying not to get themselves an AstraZeneca type reputation.

Not really. The European Commission are totally confused as to why they suspended it. Makes the company look bad.
"European Commission seeks clarification on ‘completely unexpected’ announcement "
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/johnson-johnson-delays-eu-vaccine-deliveries-as-us-pauses-use-over-blood-clots-1.4536080

Happydays2020

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Not really. The European Commission are totally confused as to why they suspended it. Makes the company look bad.
"European Commission seeks clarification on ‘completely unexpected’ announcement "
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/johnson-johnson-delays-eu-vaccine-deliveries-as-us-pauses-use-over-blood-clots-1.4536080

Maybe they had a chat with NIAC/

ACitizenErased

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Maybe they had a chat with NIAC/

What does NIAC have to do with it?

Boulevardier

I don't get this. What happened to my thread on the 65-69 vaccination portal??

Cork2021

As this has probably been the worst day so far in terms of vaccine news, another phrase that needs to confined to the past and this is what should be happening

“Abundance of Caution”... pity we don’t have an equal abundance of urgency, common sense and leadership.

Neleven

Neleven wrote: »

Johnson and Johnson have announced the suspension of their vaccine due to the finding of 6 cases of CVST in 7 million doses (less than one case per million), following on from the suspension of Astra Zeneca to all but the over 60s for the same reason. A quick google of peer-reviewed sources suggests that the incidence of CVST in the general population, pre-Covid, ranged from 7 per million to 15 per million. According to an article in the Irish Times( April 12th) there were 223 cases of CVST and another clotting issue (SVT) in 34 million AZ doses - a rate of about 6.5 per million.
I am no scientist, but the figures suggest that in the vaccinated population there is no greater incidence of CVST than would be expected in the unvaccinated population. In fact, in some studies it's considerably lower. Am I missing something?

I'm fairly sure that in relation to the Norwegian and German cases, it was reported that the typical rate of CVST in the general population was 2 to 3 per million. Germany were seeing 13 to 14 per million in people vaccinated with AZ, which is why they took action.

If the rates were the same as in the general population, there would have been nothing to investigate and the various national regulators would not have issued new advice.

From the bits of the news I saw this evening, they didn't seem to be reporting that the pause on J&J is likely to only last a few days. Unless I'm missing something. They were talking about the possibility of J&J not coming through at all, which doesn't seem realistic?

average_runner

It's all a complete joke. Let the people decide themselves

ACitizenErased

Flying Fox wrote: »

From the bits of the news I saw this evening, they didn't seem to be reporting that the pause on J&J is likely to only last a few days. Unless I'm missing something. They were talking about the possibility of J&J not coming through at all, which doesn't seem realistic?

The FDA had a press conference today.

Neleven

Flying Fox wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that in relation to the Norwegian and German cases, it was reported that the typical rate of CVST in the general population was 2 to 3 per million. Germany were seeing 13 to 14 per million in people vaccinated with AZ, which is why they took action.

If the rates were the same as in the general population, there would have been nothing to investigate and the various national regulators would not have issued new advice.

"The incidence of CVST in children and neonates has been reported to be as high as 7 cases per million people, whereas in adults the incidence is 3-4 cases per million." Filippidis et al 2009;
"In our population of 953 390 adults, this represented an incidence of 15.7 million per year (95% confidence interval, 12.9–19.0)," Devagayasam et al 2016;
"The overall age- and sex-adjusted incidence of CVST was 1.47/100,000 per year (95% CI: 1.03-1.91). The incidence was 1.78/100,000 per year for women (95% CI: 1.13-2.43) and 1.16/100,000 per year for men (95% CI: 0.57-1.75).2 Fairbanks et al 2018.

If the German figures you quote are correct then the assertion in the Times must be inaccurate - there would be twice as many cases. ("Of 34 million people who had received the vaccine in the UK and the European Economic Area, the EMA said it had received reports of 169 cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) and 53 cases of splanchnic vein thrombosis – both rare kinds of blood clots") Admittedly, it's possible that the UK figures are underreported - I don't know.

One way or the other, the figures are not very significant to my mind so the question is why is there such caution? It's slightly reassuring that they are ultra-cautious about safety, but it's incredibly frustrating if the incidence is no worse than the underlying population trends.

Irish Aris

Boulevardier wrote: »

I don't get this. What happened to my thread on the 65-69 vaccination portal??

I think one of the administrators added it here, as it fits the discussion in this thread.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The FDA had a press conference today.

The 'media call' from this afternoon? It seemed quite optimistic so I'm wondering why RTE seems so much more negative.

stephenjmcd

Flying Fox wrote: »

From the bits of the news I saw this evening, they didn't seem to be reporting that the pause on J&J is likely to only last a few days. Unless I'm missing something. They were talking about the possibility of J&J not coming through at all, which doesn't seem realistic?

Basically the gist of it alright

Neleven

Neleven wrote: »

"The incidence of CVST in children and neonates has been reported to be as high as 7 cases per million people, whereas in adults the incidence is 3-4 cases per million." Filippidis et al 2009;
"In our population of 953 390 adults, this represented an incidence of 15.7 million per year (95% confidence interval, 12.9–19.0)," Devagayasam et al 2016;
"The overall age- and sex-adjusted incidence of CVST was 1.47/100,000 per year (95% CI: 1.03-1.91). The incidence was 1.78/100,000 per year for women (95% CI: 1.13-2.43) and 1.16/100,000 per year for men (95% CI: 0.57-1.75).2 Fairbanks et al 2018.

If the German figures you quote are correct then the assertion in the Times must be inaccurate - there would be twice as many cases. ("Of 34 million people who had received the vaccine in the UK and the European Economic Area, the EMA said it had received reports of 169 cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) and 53 cases of splanchnic vein thrombosis – both rare kinds of blood clots") Admittedly, it's possible that the UK figures are underreported - I don't know.

One way or the other, the figures are not very significant to my mind so the question is why is there such caution? It's slightly reassuring that they are ultra-cautious about safety, but it's incredibly frustrating if the incidence is no worse than the underlying population trends.

In Germany alone they had 39 cases out of 2.7 million doses, so it's only a subset of the Europe wide data, but it (along with the Norwegian cases) prompted the investigation in the first place.

ixoy

Flying Fox wrote: »

The 'media call' from this afternoon? It seemed quite optimistic so I'm wondering why RTE seems so much more negative.

The answer's in the question: RTE.

The HorsesMouth

Flying Fox wrote: »

The 'media call' from this afternoon? It seemed quite optimistic so I'm wondering why RTE seems so much more negative.

RTE spinning a negative turn on an optimistic story....now where would we have seen this before?
Every. Single. Day.

brickster69

Danzy wrote: »

Many places in Germany took Easter off, up to 5 days in some cities.

Lack of urgency on the continent.

Yeah, 300K of them shot off to Spain for Easter holidays. Spaniards were all celebrating, wait till the effects of that kicks in.