Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

crossman47

crossman47 wrote: »

You are defeating your own argument. A few weeks delay in administering vaccines (any vaccine) is more likely to cause some deaths than any effect of AZ. Its a question of risk assessment.

Not when it's being delayed for young people who are at an extremely low risk of dying from covid.

The data is all out there if people care to look. The Oxford risk calculator shows an individual's risk of dying from covid. Compare that to the risk of clotting from AZ. The latter is higher for younger people.

Russman

crossman47 wrote: »

You are defeating your own argument. A few weeks delay in administering vaccines (any vaccine) is more likely to cause some deaths than any effect of AZ. Its a question of risk assessment.

Is it though ?
I'm not arguing for a delay per se, I'd take AZ this afternoon if offered, just that we trust NIAC and not be beholden blindly to speed.
When we get to the lower age groups, those most likely to die from COVID will already be vaccinated. I can't see how delaying the 30s for a couple of weeks will cause more deaths.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

or they feel at risk of getting serious disease from COVID?

I feel like I'm a special case too.

ShineOn7

crossman47 wrote: »

Its slow but they're not being thrown under a bus. Cohort 4 are at higher risk so are rightly being done first. GPs should not be opting out of doing Group 7 but some of them are getting abuse from people who feel they are a special case (some no doubt wanting to go on holiday).

I'm not disagreeing Cohort 4 shouldn't be done first

But yes Cohort 7 are getting fcuked over on this. And it's ridiculous to say they want a vaccination to go on holiday

They just want some protection before the country opens up and cases, inevitably, rise again

josip

bullpost wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56992121

Bit worrying - upsurge of cases in Seychelles where 60% vaccinated. Third of new cases are in those who were given two doses.

Now the vaccines they are using are not same as here which is something.

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Sounds like the nail in the coffin for Sinopharm.

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Terrible news tbh. Sinopharm was being used in a lot of places. Just pushes the end of the pandemic back even further.

It's not the doom and gloom some would paint it and the Seychelles case has previously been discussed here.

Although Sinopharm has a very low efficacy, it still does the basic job of preventing death/serious illness.
I agree that it will never be used in the EU/US, but for a lot of countries around the world, it has significantly lessened the death toll.
Those that I am aware of who contracted Covid after being fully vaccinated with Sinopharm, only reported cold-like symptoms, not even flu-like.

ShineOn7

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah I had to have been hospitalised.

Me and you have agreed on absolutely fcuk all on here in the last year, but I absolutely hope you get vaccinated in Cohort 7 somehow

If memory serves you're quite young, so if you don't get one in Cohort 7 you'll be one of the last in the queue

And no one with asthma should be that far down the queue

Lumen

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah I had to have been hospitalised.

AFAIK the official criteria for asthma in cohort 7 is still "severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids)".

eoinbn

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Sounds like the nail in the coffin for Sinopharm.

No, it isn't. 20% of people with Sinopharm will get symptoms when reinfected. How many are ending up on hospital? How many are dying?

RavenBea17b

Lumen wrote: »

One would hope that once the dust has settled, some serious questions would be asked about how Ireland has managed to have such a fragmented healthcare system in a country of only 5 million people.

GPs using paper-based records is just pitiful in 2021. It's not like they don't have the time for data entry; every GP surgery I've been into in Ireland has a receptionist who spends most of the day doing fck all despite protestations to the contrary.

Ha. questions are constantly asked, never a decent answer, and no action is ever taken really.
But agreed, his has opened everyone's eyes to this fragmented

Hurrache

I got a text from an old GP this week regarding category 4 or 7 asking to register interest on their website in order to be contacted for an appointment, what's changed since then, or is it just individual GPs dropping out opposed to a broader policy?

bodun

Lumen wrote: »

There's the IHI

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/national-services/individual-health-identifier/

The IHI does not exist on a practical level in Irish healthcare. It's a project that has been on the cards for years but has never been implemented.

Lumen

bodun wrote: »

The IHI does not exist on a practical level in Irish healthcare. It's a project that has been on the cards for years but has never been implemented.

Are you sure about that? It is apparently being used in the HSE vaccine appointment system, and a GP I know said they use it regularly.

ACitizenErased

Lumen wrote: »

AFAIK the official criteria for asthma in cohort 7 is still "severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids)".

Yeah it is, my GP and the others in his clinic are only sending asthmatics who have been hospitalised as group 7

odyssey06

Hurrache wrote: »

I got a text from an old GP this week regarding category 4 or 7 asking to register interest on their website in order to be contacted for an appointment, what's changed since then, or is it just individual GPs dropping out opposed to a broader policy?

It is individual GPs.
Some not doing group 7 and group 4. Some only doing group 4.

There is also some issues around asthmatics in group 7.
Some people being told they need to have been hospitalised.
Some people being told they need to have been on oral steroids (not steroid inhalers) *
Some people being told they will be getting it cos they are on steroid inhalers.

* This appears to most closely match the HSE definition

bodun

Lumen wrote: »

Are you sure about that? It is apparently being used in the HSE vaccine appointment system, and a GP I know said they use it regularly.

Absolutely, it's currently a meaningless number as there is no one unified EPR (Electronic Patient Record) system in use between Hospital's, GPs etc. There have been some successes, the national radiology system , NIMIS, and the national lab system project, Medlis, was in the process of being implemented before covid but nothing that would link them all together yet.


Hopefully after all this is over the HSE will get serious about a national EPR

freshpopcorn

I’m not sure if this have being covered in this thread.
I’m just wondering what’s the story with a Health center I know giving out vaccines to people.
Their 20’s -50’s whilst others who’d be more vulnerable aren’t vaccinated yet.
I know they maybe a few vaccines left over but I know of a good few people who’ve being called now.
The only link seems to be they are private patients(No medical card).
Professions, etc are all different.

titan18

crossman47 wrote: »

Its slow but they're not being thrown under a bus. Cohort 4 are at higher risk so are rightly being done first. GPs should not be opting out of doing Group 7 but some of them are getting abuse from people who feel they are a special case (some no doubt wanting to go on holiday).

Why are 50s registering and being called over cohort 7. Fair enough if it's just for AZ but there's not enough AZ there for them and the 60s so to me it looks like they'd be getting Pfizer which should be earmarked for cohort 7

AdamD

I'm probably being naive here but would it not be logistically easier for GPs to just refer anyone who possibly comes into group 7, instead of fully investigating each case and then pulling out of the system to due to it being too time constraining? Having too many people bunched into group 7 would surely have minimal negative impact on the rollout versus too few..

bodhrandude

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah I had to have been hospitalised.

That's odd, the receptionist at my GP explained it better, Cohort 4 is cases of people with respiratory diseases that need regularly to be treated in hospitals during the year. My sister's example being she needs to use a nebuliser and attends hospital appointments once a month to get fusion treatment. Whilst I'm in Cohort 7 who requires heavy duty inhalers but I'm not required to attend hospital for treatments. So I think your GP is winding you up, you should be in 7 if you have a respiratory disease and require inhalers. Its absolutely nuts, the situation.

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

Why are 50s registering and being called over cohort 7. Fair enough if it's just for AZ but there's not enough AZ there for them and the 60s so to me it looks like they'd be getting Pfizer which should be earmarked for cohort 7

Over 50s are in the portal, groups 1-7 are HSE and GP administered, separately.

Necro

titan18 wrote: »

Why are 50s registering and being called over cohort 7. Fair enough if it's just for AZ but there's not enough AZ there for them and the 60s so to me it looks like they'd be getting Pfizer which should be earmarked for cohort 7

Because they're being done through the MVCs and not the GPs like was the original plan, I would imagine.

It depends on your area honestly, I'm cohort 7 and got my first jab last Friday so they are doing them... just it's not progressing as quickly as some might expect.

fly_agaric

munchkin_utd wrote: »

funny that its not mentioned in the irish media (well, not really, the papers mainly report on press releases they get locally or copy US/ UK/ AUS / NZ news for a domestic audience so miss out on EU news) that France is threatening to Veto the next EU Pfizer / Biontech order which is needed as boosters against variants down the line.

They want a share of the action even if it means lowering orders from existing proven facilities which are producing exceptionally reliably and with massive output.
I hope to fk that IRL and other countries just bypass those inept French muppets and organise an EU 26 order and let France depend on their own currently non existant vaccines and vaccine production facilities. That was going to happen with the financial aid packages when Hungary threatened a veto, surely its possible now.
https://www.krone.at/2408314

That is depressing.

You'd think politicians would learn at this stage that now its been decided to act collectively and put this vaccine procurement effort in the hands of the EU, nationalism/political games have to be left at the door. Let them get on with buying what works and can be produced at scale, regardless of which member states will get the most side benefits and which will just be the purchasers. There just seems to be an inability to take this whole situation seriously enough.

Afair media reports suggested the similar disagreements between member states (rows over money, what to buy + whose local industry/companies will get benefits) slowed down initial EU orders of vaccines and funding of the production expansions.

astrofool

munchkin_utd wrote: »

funny that its not mentioned in the irish media (well, not really, the papers mainly report on press releases they get locally or copy US/ UK/ AUS / NZ news for a domestic audience so miss out on EU news) that France is threatening to Veto the next EU Pfizer / Biontech order which is needed as boosters against variants down the line.

They want a share of the action even if it means lowering orders from existing proven facilities which are producing exceptionally reliably and with massive output.
I hope to fk that IRL and other countries just bypass those inept French muppets and organise an EU 26 order and let France depend on their own currently non existant vaccines and vaccine production facilities. That was going to happen with the financial aid packages when Hungary threatened a veto, surely its possible now.
https://www.krone.at/2408314

I think because, like everything the French do around nationalism, it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, they'll announce some French facilities are being used and move on.

ShineOn7

bodhrandude wrote: »

Whilst I'm in Cohort 7 who requires heavy duty inhalers but I'm not required to attend hospital for treatments.

I think you mentioned this week you got your first shot Dude?

What brand did you get in Cohort 7?

SleetAndSnow

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah I had to have been hospitalised.

Yes mine is the same. Meanwhile, a friend with very mild asthma, has gotten a dose under cohort 7. It's frustrating.

Turtwig

hmmm wrote: »

Why didn't we retain the man with a red flag walking in front of cars? That would reduce road deaths to zero.

I admit the situation thankfully at present allows us to use all our vaccines, but we'll see what happens in late May and June.

I don't know how the red flag walking is relevant. That said, Traffic lights and roundabouts are generally considered safer aren't they? There's a whole science to the design of roundabouts and intersections for an efficient flow of traffic while maintaining safety. It's always something I wanted to learn more about.

Anyway, digression aside. You have to consider what is being asked here:
When this pandemic began we sacrificed the potential lifetime career earnings and social life of under 30s to help protect our larger society, the health system and in particular the very vulnerable cohorts. Many of these under 30 are at very low risk of severe consequences from COVID. Now, the vulnerable are getting protection we're going to ask the group that's sacrificed a hell of lot already to make even more unnecessary sacrifices in the sake of getting the economy going? It doesn't really stack up. Thanks for all your sacrifices so far now we just need you to make completely unnecessary sacrifices that may potentially adversely impact your own health.

I'm not sure we can consider that ethical.
Everything would be different if there were no alternatives to the viral vectors. There are.

bodhrandude

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I think you mentioned this week you got your first shot Dude?

What brand did you get in Cohort 7?

I was inoculated alongside folk from Cohort 4 so I got Pfizer last Friday. My GP was doing both Cohorts as he must have been contacted by numerous others too.

ceegee

bodhrandude wrote: »

That's odd, the receptionist at my GP explained it better, Cohort 4 is cases of people with respiratory diseases that need regularly to be treated in hospitals during the year. My sister's example being she needs to use a nebuliser and attends hospital appointments once a month to get fusion treatment. Whilst I'm in Cohort 7 who requires heavy duty inhalers but I'm not required to attend hospital for treatments. So I think your GP is winding you up, you should be in 7 if you have a respiratory disease and require inhalers. Its absolutely nuts, the situation.

The description given for respiratory patients in cohort 7 is:
Other chronic respiratory disease, for example: stable cystic fibrosis, severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids), moderate COPD.

Asthma patients are only in cohort 7 if they require oral steroids on a regular basis, using an inhaler doesn't qualify you.

I'm beginning to think most of this confusion is down to GP surgery staff not understanding the word systemic

sd1999

For what it’s worth, I’m 21 and Cohort 4 and got my first Pfizer dose last week at my GP. They were just finishing up first doses for Cohort 4 and were starting with older Cohort 7s the same day.

sd1999

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I’m not sure if this have being covered in this thread.
I’m just wondering what’s the story with a Health center I know giving out vaccines to people.
Their 20’s -50’s whilst others who’d be more vulnerable aren’t vaccinated yet.
I know they maybe a few vaccines left over but I know of a good few people who’ve being called now.
The only link seems to be they are private patients(No medical card).
Professions, etc are all different.

You don’t know if the people in their 20s-50s aren’t more vulnerable. If by people who are more vulnerable you mean those 50 - 69, they’re being done in MVCs.