Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Micky 32

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1382076600276111364?s=21

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1382079497432875013?s=21

JMR46

JMR46 wrote: »

I felt the need to make this positive post seeing how the thread has been going the last couple of days........

My aunt and uncle, both in their early 70s, got their first dose of the Pfizer vaccine today....great relief!!

On a side note, is there any update on how the housebound vaccinations are progressing? I know an update was provided in the Dáil a couple of weeks ago saying they had approx 600/1800 done. I have a relative that's 96 who is housebound and awaiting it. I know and understand the reasons why but just wondering was there anything recent on it

Another further positive update

I just found out another aunt and uncle of mine (again early 70s) got a late call this evening and also recieved their first doses. Great day for the parish!

Seriously though I found it heartening to hear these stories from others on this thread so thought I would share mine. The last few days have been hard listening to all the negative but we should probably remember thousands are getting protected every day and we are getting there!

Goldengirl

Boulevardier wrote: »

I don't get this. What happened to my thread on the 65-69 vaccination portal??

You have been " merged";)

Jim Gazebo

For the unknowledgeable average person this whole charade is a massive PR disaster. One has to wonder if it is purposeful but that's for another discussion.

Personally, I've said it before, I'm young, I've always believed in fighting off illness without medication etc etc being better in the long run. I would still rather wait on the vaccine MYSELF, if I was 50+, even 40+ I'd swallow it down in any way possible. But I do not see the point in grabbing the first available vaccine for an illness I'm still happy to take my chances with if I catch it.

I do not think people should be castigated for that stance if they are young and healthy.

Scuid Mhór

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

For the unknowledgeable average person this whole charade is a massive PR disaster. One has to wonder if it is purposeful but that's for another discussion.

Personally, I've said it before, I'm young, I've always believed in fighting off illness without medication etc etc being better in the long run. I would still rather wait on the vaccine MYSELF, if I was 50+, even 40+ I'd swallow it down in any way possible. But I do not see the point in grabbing the first available vaccine for an illness I'm still happy to take my chances with if I catch it.

I do not think people should be castigated for that stance if they are young and healthy.

Eh, yes they should be castigated. Because anyone who remains unvaccinated is at a higher risk of getting infected and then passing the virus on to someone more vulnerable (even if that vulnerable person is already vaccinated). The only way out of this is through herd immunity.

If enough young and healthy people refuse to get vaccinated we will never get out of this. It’s astounding that this hasn’t been communicated well enough to people. It’s how vaccines have always worked - they aren’t just for the vulnerable, the idea is to eventually quash transmission.

Most would consider your post selfish, misguided, and lacking any real knowledge of how vaccines are supposed to end the pandemic.

ACitizenErased

Pfizer have announced they are increasing expected supply to US by end of May by 10%. If only they could do that for Europe too :pac:

sd1999

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

For the unknowledgeable average person this whole charade is a massive PR disaster. One has to wonder if it is purposeful but that's for another discussion.

Personally, I've said it before, I'm young, I've always believed in fighting off illness without medication etc etc being better in the long run. I would still rather wait on the vaccine MYSELF, if I was 50+, even 40+ I'd swallow it down in any way possible. But I do not see the point in grabbing the first available vaccine for an illness I'm still happy to take my chances with if I catch it.

I do not think people should be castigated for that stance if they are young and healthy.

The problem with that approach is that not only could you cause someone more vulnerable to get sick, if enough people aren’t vaccinated etc. there is more opportunity for variants to develop. Also, society as we know it wouldn’t exist if we “fought off” disease without medication.

EDIT: Also specifically in relation to Covid, getting it once gives you some immunity to the variant you got but very limited immunity to others. Vaccines have so far proven to be better suited to other variants so “fighting it off yourself” still leaves you open to future infection and, by extension, transmission.

sd1999

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Eh, yes they should be castigated. Because anyone who remains unvaccinated is at a higher risk of getting infected and then passing the virus on to someone more vulnerable (even if that vulnerable person is already vaccinated). The only way out of this is through herd immunity.

If enough young and healthy people refuse to get vaccinated we will never get out of this. It’s astounding that this hasn’t been communicated well enough to people. It’s how vaccines have always worked - they aren’t just for the vulnerable, the idea is to eventually quash transmission.

Most would consider your post selfish, misguided, and lacking any real knowledge of how vaccines are supposed to end the pandemic.

Completely agree. I’m young but in Cohort 7 and the amount of privilege in “I’ll take my chances” is staggering. Some of us can’t take those chances. Getting a vaccine isn’t just about protecting yourself, it’s about protecting everyone. And while the majority of young people recover and are fine, there have been a small number of healthy ones who have ended up in ICU or died after contracting Covid. Some have argued that they must have had an underlying condition they didn’t know about as if that makes it ok when by that logic anyone could have an underlying condition they don’t know about.

The HorsesMouth

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Eh, yes they should be castigated. Because anyone who remains unvaccinated is at a higher risk of getting infected and then passing the virus on to someone more vulnerable (even if that vulnerable person is already vaccinated). The only way out of this is through herd immunity.

If enough young and healthy people refuse to get vaccinated we will never get out of this. It’s astounding that this hasn’t been communicated well enough to people. It’s how vaccines have always worked - they aren’t just for the vulnerable, the idea is to eventually quash transmission.

Most would consider your post selfish, misguided, and lacking any real knowledge of how vaccines are supposed to end the pandemic.

Ok we all know how vaccines work. But usually vaccines throughout history have mostly been against diseases that have serious potential to harm you as an individual. Not for the good of everyone else. For example the flu vaccine, most people under 40 don't get it and are not expected to get it because they are v unlikely to die of flu ( i am not comparing flu to covid btw!).

So in my case, I have had covid. I had a few days where I had no energy and a headache but that was pretty much it. So just hypothetically speaking..if I was to receive the AZ vaccine, and then die of a blood clot..are you saying sorry that's just one of those things..we are happy to accept you dying from getting a vaccine from a disease that posed no risk to you personally?

FWIW I will take a vaccine and I am not anti-vax at all but I find people suggest that young people are misguided and selfish for harbouring hesitations to taking a vaccine against something that poses little risk to most of them a bit over the top.

ACitizenErased

Janssen have announced all trials involving their vaccine have been temporarily paused while they update guidance for participants

Goldengirl

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Ok we all know how vaccines work. But usually vaccines throughout history have mostly been against diseases that have serious potential to harm you as an individual. Not for the good of everyone else. For example the flu vaccine, most people under 40 don't get it and are not expected to get it because they are v unlikely to die of flu ( i am not comparing flu to covid btw!).

So in my case, I have had covid. I had a few days where I had no energy and a headache but that was pretty much it. So just hypothetically speaking..if I was to receive the AZ vaccine, and then die of a blood clot..are you saying sorry that's just one of those things..we are happy to accept you dying from getting a vaccine from a disease that posed no risk to you personally?

FWIW I will take a vaccine and I am not anti-vax at all but I find people suggest that young people are misguided and selfish for harbouring hesitations to taking a vaccine against something that poses little risk to most of them a bit over the top.

Isn't that why it is being stopped for younger people , precisely ?

sd1999

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Ok we all know how vaccines work. But usually vaccines throughout history have mostly been against diseases that have serious potential to harm you as an individual. Not for the good of everyone else. For example the flu vaccine, most people under 40 don't get it and are not expected to get it because they are v unlikely to die of flu ( i am not comparing flu to covid btw!).

So in my case, I have had covid. I had a few days where I had no energy and a headache but that was pretty much it. So just hypothetically speaking..if I was to receive the AZ vaccine, and then die of a blood clot..are you saying sorry that's just one of those things..we are happy to accept you dying from getting a vaccine from a disease that posed no risk to you personally?

FWIW I will take a vaccine and I am not anti-vax at all but I find people suggest that young people are misguided and selfish for harbouring hesitations to taking a vaccine against something that poses little risk to most of them a bit over the top.

That’s why AZ is being used in over 60s now.

And yes getting vaccinated is an altruistic thing to do and not getting one because it won’t personally affect you if you get sick is selfish.

Everyone gets older, if Covid is still a problem in 40 years time because not enough people get vaccinated then it could be what kills you.

The HorsesMouth

sd1999 wrote: »

That’s why AZ is being used in over 60s now.

And yes getting vaccinated is an altruistic thing to do and not getting one because it won’t personally affect you if you get sick is selfish.

But when have we ever vaccinated someone who wasn't really at risk of getting sick just so someone else vulnerable wouldn't get sick?
Sometimes it's not as simple as just saying get on with it and just get vaccinated!

WoollyRedHat

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

For the unknowledgeable average person this whole charade is a massive PR disaster. One has to wonder if it is purposeful but that's for another discussion.

Personally, I've said it before, I'm young, I've always believed in fighting off illness without medication etc etc being better in the long run. I would still rather wait on the vaccine MYSELF, if I was 50+, even 40+ I'd swallow it down in any way possible. But I do not see the point in grabbing the first available vaccine for an illness I'm still happy to take my chances with if I catch it.

I do not think people should be castigated for that stance if they are young and healthy.

To preface, I'm young too and I'd rather take my chances taking a vaccine and the risk of experiencing an adverse affect to it, that is incredibly small in probability, compared to not taking one and being at a bigger risk to having a worse adverse reaction due to being infected by a wild-type virus that could have **** knock-on effects.

The overall opinion is you are better to get protected than get infected.

astrofool

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

But when have we ever vaccinated someone who wasn't really at risk of getting sick just so someone else vulnerable wouldn't get sick?
Sometimes it's not as simple as just saying get on with it and just get vaccinated!

Literally all the time, colleges offer free flu vaccine to students for this precise reason.

The HorsesMouth

astrofool wrote: »

Literally all the time, colleges offer free flu vaccine to students for this precise reason.

But they are not called selfish and misguided for not taking it.

sd1999

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

But when have we ever vaccinated someone who wasn't really at risk of getting sick just so someone else vulnerable wouldn't get sick?
Sometimes it's not as simple as just saying get on with it and just get vaccinated!

When was the last time we had a pandemic that shutdown most of society for a year and half? And it has been done before. Young people weren't at risk from swine flu but were still vaccinated, or at least offered it. Kids in early secondary school get the HPV vaccine now. Very few people get measles anymore so the risk isn't really there but the majority of people aren't vaccinated against it. And again, it's not about whether or not you'll be fine, it's about protecting those who won't be and ignoring that is definitely selfish. In Ireland at least, under 60s will be offered with Pfizer vaccine which hasn't led to significant side effects like AZ and J&J have.

sd1999

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

But they are not called selfish and misguided for not taking it.

Because the flu isn't as deadly as Covid for most people and the flu vaccines are significantly less effective than all of the Covid ones (some can be around 30-40% effective) meaning that herd immunity isn't really possible with them.

The HorsesMouth

sd1999 wrote: »

When was the last time we had a pandemic that shutdown most of society for a year and half? And it has been done before. Young people weren't at risk from swine flu but were still vaccinated, or at least offered it. Kids in early secondary school get the HPV vaccine now. Very few people get measles anymore so the risk isn't really there but the majority of people aren't vaccinated against it. And again, it's not about whether or not you'll be fine, it's about protecting those who won't be and ignoring that is definitely selfish. In Ireland at least, under 60s will be offered with Pfizer vaccine which hasn't led to significant side effects like AZ and J&J have.

Everything you have mentioned there has the potential to harm the individual though. Measles, cervical cancer etc. And again they might have been offered the vaccine against swine flu but weren't denounced for not taking it.
Anyways, my point is I think most young people will take a vaccine in the end but calling them selfish if they hesitate is not exactly going to bring them on board.

sd1999

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Everything you have mentioned there has the potential to harm the individual though. Measles, cervical cancer etc. And again they might have been offered the vaccine against swine flu but weren't denounced for not taking it.
Anyways, my point is I think most young people will take a vaccine in the end but calling them selfish if they hesitate is not exactly going to bring them on board.

Covid has the potential to harm the individual. 3,000,000 people have died of it in less than 2 years. A decent proportion of those who recover suffer long term symptoms.

Scuid Mhór

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Ok we all know how vaccines work.

No disrespect intended but it honestly doesn't sound like you do know how vaccines work. It's not just about preventing illness in the individual.

But usually vaccines throughout history have mostly been against diseases that have serious potential to harm you as an individual. Not for the good of everyone else.

No, you're wrong on this. Tuberculosis, measles, polio, smallpox. Many more can just be googled. Eradicated or broken down to very rare community transmission due to population-wide vaccine usage.

For example the flu vaccine, most people under 40 don't get it and are not expected to get it because they are v unlikely to die of flu ( i am not comparing flu to covid btw!).

This is a once-in-a-century pandemic that has damaged lives and livelihoods and has literally stopped society as we know it. The severity of the flu is not as bad as covid. The flu doesn't shut down societies.

So in my case, I have had covid. I had a few days where I had no energy and a headache but that was pretty much it. So just hypothetically speaking..if I was to receive the AZ vaccine, and then die of a blood clot..are you saying sorry that's just one of those things..we are happy to accept you dying from getting a vaccine from a disease that posed no risk to you personally?

As posters before me have said, the AZ vaccine has been prohibited from being used in individuals below the age of sixty. But frankly I think that was extreme regulatory overstretch. The fact of the matter is this in order for society to reopen and for people to be able to go about their daily lives without fear of the most vulnerable succumbing to a deadly illness, if you run the numbers, statistically it makes far more sense to administer AZ and risk a statistically insignificant amount of blood clots than it would to not administer the vaccine, let covid continue to spread unabated and end up with more people dying.

We're not living in a perfect world right now. We're racing against the clock and we have to be utilitarian about it.

But the risk of developing a blood clot from AZ is so low that it's really not something to worry about. You are more likely to die in a car accident than develop blood clots from the vaccine. But you're not going to stop getting into cars anytime soon.

FWIW I will take a vaccine and I am not anti-vax at all but I find people suggest that young people are misguided and selfish for harbouring hesitations to taking a vaccine against something that poses little risk to most of them a bit over the top.

Not accusing you of being anti-vaxx but it's not over the top at all. It is misguided and selfish because it completely misses the point of the vaccination programme. These same young people are probably the ones most likely lamenting the lockdowns they have had to suffer through. It's oxymoronic. A vaccine isn't to protect the individual, it's to protect society.

And thinking that covid poses little risk to young people is also a huge misnomer btw. There is still so little we know about the disease, it's long term effects etc. Long covid is getting more and more publicity recently.

astrofool

sd1999 wrote: »

Covid has the potential to harm the individual.

It's also impossible to know if you'll have the severe form of COVID-19 until after you're infected at which point it's too late.

sd1999

astrofool wrote: »

It's also impossible to know if you'll have the severe form of COVID-19 until after you're infected at which point it's too late.

Exactly, just had quick google there and as of February just under a third of those infected suffer symptoms for longer than two weeks. There has also been an increase in psychiatric illness associated with past Covid infection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(21)00084-5/fulltext

Even if you recover, you can still have sustained neurological damage. We won't know the imapct of that for a long time yet so it's better to, you know, prevent people from getting Covid even if they're not classed as high risk.

astrofool

sd1999 wrote: »

Exactly, just had quick google there and as of February just under a third of those infected suffer symptoms for longer than two weeks. There has also been an increase in psychiatric illness associated with past Covid infection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(21)00084-5/fulltext

Even if you recover, you can still have sustained neurological damage. We won't know the imapct of that for a long time yet so it's better to, you know, prevent people from getting Covid even if they're not classed as high risk.

I'm just remembering the COVID parties they had in the States with multiple people making themselves eligible for Darwin awards.

lucernarian

astrofool wrote: »

Literally all the time, colleges offer free flu vaccine to students for this precise reason.

I don't always agree but on this point you're 2000% right. Another obvious example is the polio vaccine, most (like 99% of) children who were infected did not get any symptoms of paralysis. Owing to how transmissible it was, the whole world is vaccinated to protect a comparatively small proportion of the population from serious disease.

Additionally, many diseases are vaccinated against because of the risk of serious disease and hospitalisation (even if mortality is low). One example is the chickenpox / shingles vaccine.

Azatadine

On the positive front, Moderna"s vaccine is a really good vaccine.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/548041-moderna-study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-90-percent-effective-six-months-after?amp#click=https://t.co/fw9PXOxL15

hynesie08

Azatadine wrote: »

On the positive front, Moderna"s vaccine is a really good vaccine.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/548041-moderna-study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-90-percent-effective-six-months-after?amp#click=https://t.co/fw9PXOxL15

Great, any chance they could manufacture a few billion doses then.

stephenjmcd

From listening to morning Ireland and having a skim through the morning papers you'd think the sky had come crashing down.

They're going overboard on J&J, complete lack of facts, one stating 40k doses were due this week, firstly they weren't it was this month and the J&J numbers are very small in the next few weeks.

Secondly they seem to completely skim over the fact that the FDA said they expect the pause in the states to last "only a number of days"

Very frustrating knowing most of the population get their news from these sources & they go completely over the top and people wouldn't know about the things posted here for example in the last 24hrs with regards to the FDA etc.

Sorry all for the rant but it's very annoying seeing all of this being misinterpreted & going completely overboard

vienne86

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From listening to morning Ireland and having a skim through the morning papers you'd think the sky had come crashing down.

They're going overboard on J&J, complete lack of facts, one stating 40k doses were due this week, firstly they weren't it was this month and the J&J numbers are very small in the next few weeks.

Secondly they seem to completely skim over the fact that the FDA said they expect the pause in the states to last "only a number of days"

Very frustrating knowing most of the population get their news from these sources & they go completely over the top and people wouldn't know about the things posted here for example in the last 24hrs with regards to the FDA etc.

Sorry all for the rant but it's very annoying seeing all of this being misinterpreted & going completely overboard

Just thinking exactly the same........turning off.

dominatinMC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From listening to morning Ireland and having a skim through the morning papers you'd think the sky had come crashing down.

They're going overboard on J&J, complete lack of facts, one stating 40k doses were due this week, firstly they weren't it was this month and the J&J numbers are very small in the next few weeks.

Secondly they seem to completely skim over the fact that the FDA said they expect the pause in the states to last "only a number of days"

Very frustrating knowing most of the population get their news from these sources & they go completely over the top and people wouldn't know about the things posted here for example in the last 24hrs with regards to the FDA etc.

Sorry all for the rant but it's very annoying seeing all of this being misinterpreted & going completely overboard

Rant away, as I've done so many times. The media have been nothing short of disgraceful during this pandemic, their job is to inform not frighten, and we have seen a very definite shift towards the latter in recent times. I think a lot may be attributable to the rise in social media and the need to report first, ask questions and analyse later. Something of a modern day malaise.
At the moment, Covid is a gravy train for RTE and the rest, especially with Trump gone! The likes of Claire Byrne, and worse again Katie Hannon, live, breath and sleep Covid. It's ****ing pathetic really. If anyone comes knocking on my door looking for a licence fee, I'll take great pleasure in telling them where to go!