Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Happydays2020

is_that_so wrote: »

Not sure what alternative you imagine here. They are the GPs so you'd hope they'd have the data but they did not come up with the plan. For this phase now ending they've been key but what we are now moving into they are just one part of a very big system.

Yes. I agree - for the phase just ending they were key.

eoinbn

Deleted User wrote: »

...I think you're confusing asthma - a respiratory condition - with obesity or type 2 diabetes.
People with asthma did not bring it on themselves.

I didn't mean to refer to people with asthma - I can see why quoting the post that I did would imply that. Apologies.

Wolf359f

eoinbn wrote: »

I didn't mean to refer to people with asthma - I can see why quoting the post that I did would imply that. Apologies.

So what are the conditions in cohort 7 that are lifestyle choices and are there any conditions in cohort 4 that would be lifestyle choices also?

Pablo Escobar

21,137 vaccinations on Sunday. I make that 244,103 for the week Monday-Sunday.

Chris_5339762

Just about any workplace will allow a bit of time off for staff to get vaccinated, and will give a bit of sick leave for a day or two if you get a mild side effect from it. Its in their interest after all.

ANY workplace that gets shirty about any of the above just isn't worth working for and they are awful.

Lucas Hood

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

21,137 vaccinations on Sunday. I make that 244,103 for the week Monday-Sunday.

I make it 244,243 but target met for the week which is great.

I don't think you've included J&J Jabs from Thursday or Friday.

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...I think you're confusing asthma - a respiratory condition - with obesity or type 2 diabetes.
People with asthma did not bring it on themselves.

Agreed . Nor did Type 1 diabetics , an autoimmune disease. It annoys that people can dismiss people in cohort 7 like that .

Pablo Escobar

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I make it 244,240 but target met for the week which is great.

I don't think you've included J&J Jabs from Thursday or Friday.

I have updated for them. Not sure why there's a difference, but most likely it's the data source. I'm not updating for when figures are re-stated.

Either way, that's good progress.

iamwhoiam

eoinbn wrote: »

Gotta agree with this. It is tiring to hear people moan about something that many brought upon themselves. Many are in cohort 7 due to lifestyle choices. They have known for 15 months that there is a virus out there that hits unhealthy people harder yet they are still living off Coke and Domino's.

So which of these conditions are you judging to be self inflicted ?
Cancer ? Cystic Fibrosis ? Type 1 diabetics? Chronic kidney disease ? Or any of the list below ?

Cancer

Haematological - within 1 year.

Haematological - within 1 - 5 years.

Non-haematological - within 1 year.

All other cancers on non-hormonal treatment.

Chronic heart (and vascular) disease

Chronic heart disease, for example: heart failure, hypertensive cardiac disease.

Chronic kidney disease

Chronic kidney disease with eGFR <30ml/min.

Chronic liver disease

Chronic liver disease, for example: cirrhosis or fibrosis.

Chronic neurological disease or condition

Chronic neurological disease or condition significantly compromising respiratory function and/or the ability to clear secretions, for example: Parkinson's disease, cerebral palsy.

Chronic respiratory disease

Other chronic respiratory disease, for example: stable cystic fibrosis, severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids), moderate COPD.

Diabetes

All other diabetes (Type 1 and 2).

Immunocompromised

Immunocompromise due to disease or treatment, for example: high dose systemic steroids (as defined in Immunisation Guidelines for Ireland Chapter 3), persons living with HIV.

Inherited metabolic diseases*

Disorders of intermediary metabolism not fulfilling criteria for very high risk.

Intellectual disability*

Intellectual disability*** excluding Down Syndrome.

Obesity

BMI >35 Kg/m2.

Severe mental illness*

Severe mental illness, for example: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression.

*additional or updated medical conditions

** APECED - autoimmune polyendocrinopathy candidiasis ecto- dermal dystrophy

*** WHO definition of intellectual disability as “impairments in adaptive, social, and intellectual functioning (IQ<70), requiring daily support, with onset in the developmental phase (<18 years)”

Source: gov.ie

Russman

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I make it 244,243 but target met for the week

Another very good week. Really hope they continue with the slightly "under promise and over deliver" way they've been doing things. 244k when expecting 240k is so much better than 244k when expecting 250k, even though its still 244k people jabbed !

I see the Indo reporting that cabinet are going to decide on extending the Pfizer dose gap to 6 weeks, has anyone run a scenario to see what that would do to our projections/dates ? Would the extra first doses available in the short term offset the J&J restriction if NIAC didn't budge on the age advice ?

eoinbn

Wolf359f wrote: »

So what are the conditions in cohort 7 that are lifestyle choices and are there any conditions in cohort 4 that would be lifestyle choices also?

Poor diet contributes to: heart disease, liver disease, kidney disease, diabetes, high BMI(which gets you on the list as it is a sign of many of the other issues listed). That just off the top of my head.
But hey - personal responsibility was thrown out the window years ago.

Lumen

eoinbn wrote: »

Poor diet contributes to: heart disease, liver disease, kidney disease, diabetes, high BMI(which gets you on the list as it is a sign of many of the other issues listed). That just off the top of my head.
But hey - personal responsibility was thrown out the window years ago.

Golden age bullsh!t thinking.

Personal responsibility has never been the basis for allocation of medical treatments.

Drinking a can of soft drink a day is supposed to massively increase your risk of all cancers, independent of other risk factors. As is eating even small amounts of cooked cured meat, or browned carbohydrates.

Even aside from the ethics, unless we're going to start interviewing people about their lifetime toast eating habits this is a practical dead end.

PmMeUrDogs

eoinbn wrote: »

Poor diet contributes to: heart disease, liver disease, kidney disease, diabetes, high BMI(which gets you on the list as it is a sign of many of the other issues listed). That just off the top of my head.
But hey - personal responsibility was thrown out the window years ago.

No, it wasn't, but we don't refuse medical treatment to people if they caused their own illness.


Self inflicted or not, they're higher risk than others, so need to be vaccinated first.

Fwiw, I'm 32 and was vaccinated weeks ago due to an autoimmune disease - not self inflicted, I can't help but have it.

iamwhoiam

eoinbn wrote: »

Poor diet contributes to: heart disease, liver disease, kidney disease, diabetes, high BMI(which gets you on the list as it is a sign of many of the other issues listed). That just off the top of my head.
But hey - personal responsibility was thrown out the window years ago.

I wont even go into the list of chronic conditions with you but do you understand about Type 1 diabetes at all ? Its an auto immune disease , it often starts in early childhood or adolescence . It has absolutely nothing to do with life style so educate yourself before judging others please

eoinbn

Lumen wrote: »

Golden age bullsh!t thinking.

Personal responsibility has never been the basis for allocation of medical treatments.

Drinking a can of soft drink a day is supposed to massively increase your risk of all cancers, independent of other risk factors. As is eating even small amounts of cooked cured meat, or browned carbohydrates.

Even aside from the ethics, unless we're going to start interviewing people about their lifetime toast eating habits this is a practical dead end.

I never said it was - you are just making stuff up. All I said I am sick of hearing people moaning about other people not helping them when they don't do anything to help themselves.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I wont even go into the list of chronic conditions with you but do you understand about Type 1 diabetes at all ? Its an auto immune disease , it often starts in early childhood or adolescence . It has absolutely nothing to do with life style so educate yourself before judging others please

Please don't insult my intelligence. There is hardly a person on this board that doesn't know that diet is a major factor in type 2 diabetes.

This will be my last reply on this as it is tiresome explaining the obvious.

1huge1

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I make it 244,243 but target met for the week which is great.

I don't think you've included J&J Jabs from Thursday or Friday.

Very likely then that when we get Mondays vaccine numbers tomorrow, we should they first rolling 7 day 250k reached. Tuesday (today) at a stretch.

MerlinSouthDub

Great to see vaccinations flying along now. Should reach 2 million doses on Thursday.

podgeandrodge

"The European Union is willing to see its Covid-19 vaccine contract with AstraZeneca fulfilled three months later than agreed, providing the company delivers 120 million doses by the end of June, a lawyer representing the bloc said today."


With upcoming huge amounts of Pfizer in the coming months, why would there still be a need for 120m AZ at end June? Will we not be awash with MRNA at that point?

eoinbn

podgeandrodge wrote: »

"The European Union is willing to see its Covid-19 vaccine contract with AstraZeneca fulfilled three months later than agreed, providing the company delivers 120 million doses by the end of June, a lawyer representing the bloc said today."


With upcoming huge amounts of Pfizer in the coming months, why would there still be a need for 120m AZ at end June? Will we not be awash with MRNA at that point?

Nope, we won't.
However we won't be able to use AZ anyway due to age restrictions. We might only be able to use another 100k doses due to the deliver schedule. The other 300k doses wont be used.

munchkin_utd

podgeandrodge wrote: »

"The European Union is willing to see its Covid-19 vaccine contract with AstraZeneca fulfilled three months later than agreed, providing the company delivers 120 million doses by the end of June, a lawyer representing the bloc said today."


With upcoming huge amounts of Pfizer in the coming months, why would there still be a need for 120m AZ at end June? Will we not be awash with MRNA at that point?

if the Eu got a heap of AZ reasonably soon then they could be given to willing >40s and the Pfizer jabs could be redirected to the 12 to 40 year old bracket, and get the whole job over with sooner

Fann Linn

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I make it 244,243 but target met for the week which is great.

I don't think you've included J&J Jabs from Thursday or Friday.

Are J & J being rolled out regularly now. And for what category?
Thanks.

is_that_so

Fann Linn wrote: »

Are J & J being rolled out regularly now. And for what category?
Thanks.

No, we have very little of it at the moment. Only for that vulnerable category at present. Most of it is supposed to be coming near the end of June.

josip

Have they got enough 2nd doses of AZ stored to finish those people who've already gotten 1 dose ?

lastusername

None of the vaccines have been formally approved by the FDA, EMA, etc - only for emergency usage. The technology has been under development for some time - hence the ultra-fast rollout - but it is still experimental.


If you are under 70 and / or in good health, you'll either have a mild case, not know you have it, or you might get a bad dose for a 2-3 weeks. Or you could end up in hospital (possible but unlikely though if you are healthy).



Then, you are immune as far as we can see - all with no vaccine that could have long term effects - nobody knows.

You are likely to just fight it off with no more than a few sniffles - or with zero symptoms - if you've had the flu before (which is most people I imagine). Covid and the flu are in the same family, and your immune system, T-cells, etc can recognise it and fight it off in the vast majority of cases.


Given all of this, is it worth taking something when you are a healthy person not in an older age group?

Technocentral

lastusername wrote: »

None of the vaccines have been formally approved by the FDA, EMA, etc - only for emergency usage. The technology has been under development for some time - hence the ultra-fast rollout - but it is still experimental.


If you are under 70 and / or in good health, you'll either have a mild case, not know you have it, or you might get a bad dose for a 2-3 weeks. Or you could end up in hospital (possible but unlikely though if you are healthy).



Then, you are immune as far as we can see - all with no vaccine that could have long term effects - nobody knows.

You are likely to just fight it off with no more than a few sniffles - or with zero symptoms - if you've had the flu before (which is most people I imagine). Covid and the flu are in the same family, and your immune system, T-cells, etc can recognise it and fight it off in the vast majority of cases.


Given all of this, is it worth taking something when you are a healthy person not in an older age group?

You aren't concerned about long Covid obviously, I know a very fit guy in his early 30s in Belfast (hurler) who can hardly walk up the stairs without being breathless 2 months after a case of covid that whilst bad didn't warrant hospital admission, you really need to stop spreading dangerous nonsense.

is_that_so

lastusername wrote: »

None of the vaccines have been formally approved by the FDA, EMA, etc - only for emergency usage. The technology has been under development for some time - hence the ultra-fast rollout - but it is still experimental.


If you are under 70 and / or in good health, you'll either have a mild case, not know you have it, or you might get a bad dose for a 2-3 weeks. Or you could end up in hospital (possible but unlikely though if you are healthy).



Then, you are immune as far as we can see - all with no vaccine that could have long term effects - nobody knows.

You are likely to just fight it off with no more than a few sniffles - or with zero symptoms - if you've had the flu before (which is most people I imagine). Covid and the flu are in the same family, and your immune system, T-cells, etc can recognise it and fight it off in the vast majority of cases.


Given all of this, is it worth taking something when you are a healthy person not in an older age group?

You are missing "Here's why I'm not taking these vaccines". The EMA don't do emergency approval, it's called conditional marketing.

The medicine’s benefits outweigh its risks and the applicant should be in a position to provide the comprehensive clinical data in the future.

Don't forget that the aim of the vaccination programme is not all about your perfect immune system, it's to prevent as many of those weaker systems from catching it as we can so that you don't get a sniffle.

lastusername

Technocentral wrote: »

You aren't concerned about long Covid obviously, I know a very fit guy in his early 30s in Belfast (hurler) who can hardly walk up the stairs without being breathless 2 months after a case of covid that whilst bad didn't warrant hospital admission, you really need to stop spreading dangerous nonsense.

Actually I am concerned about long Covid, even if I didn't mention it. It would suck to say the least.



But, how many of the 159M cases of Covid globally have resulted in long Covid?


Can you point out the dangerous nonsense in my post specifically? What we're talking about here is balance and perspective, and critical thinking. I'd suggest that over emotional reactions.

seamus

josip wrote: »

Have they got enough 2nd doses of AZ stored to finish those people who've already gotten 1 dose ?

Our projected deliveries of AZ to the end of June will cover us for the lot. Don't know about the rest of the EU, but since some of the bigger states are reporting large unused stockpiles, I don't think it's going to be a worry.

I'm expecting that the EU are giving AZ the opportunity to deliver on a point of principle; nobody wants a big legal battle.

We'll end up donating a massive amount of it to COVAX rather than using it on younger cohorts. Most of the EU is seeing deaths and hospitalisations plummet as the vaccination programme picks up. Once we get to the younger cohorts there'll be less urgency to just inject whatever's available, so the AZ will go spare.

lastusername

is_that_so wrote: »

You are missing "Here's why I'm not taking these vaccines". The EMA don't do emergency approval, it's called conditional marketing.

Where did I say I wasn't? And it's the same thing - just semantics.


"A conditional marketing authorisation is one of EU’s regulatory mechanisms for facilitating early access to medicines that fulfil an unmet medical need, including in emergency situations such as the current pandemic".

is_that_so wrote: »

Don't forget that the aim of the vaccination programme is not all about your perfect immune system, it's to prevent as many of those weaker systems from catching it as we can so that you don't get a sniffle.

They can get the vaccine, right?

Sconsey

lastusername wrote: »

Actually I am concerned about long Covid, even if I didn't mention it. It would suck to say the least.



But, how many of the 159M cases of Covid globally have resulted in long Covid?


Can you point out the dangerous nonsense in my post specifically? What we're talking about here is balance and perspective, and critical thinking. I'd suggest that over emotional reactions.

So there is already evidence of people suffering long term effects of Covid, there may be more problems in the future for people that contracted Covid. There are little to no known long term negative effects of the vaccines. Looks like you would rather take the risky route, under the mis-conception that is is less risky.

You are focusing on (or rather imagining) the non-existent long term effects of vaccines and ignoring the actual long term effects of Covid.

And as others have mentioned, vaccination programs are not all about you, there is the wider benefit to society to consider.