Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Is your dad in an at risk group ?

He's 65, has bad COPD, diabetes, overweight, has had multiple heart attacks so I would have thought so. *shrug*

ddarcy

namloc1980 wrote: »

Cohort 4 were going to be getting AZ including those being done at their GP.

I’m on good authority that some exist in this group (eg I know of examples personally). It’s small, so not saying it’s widespread. I’m just saying if this applies nothing will change, but to your point it is going to be <5% of the group at a max before the AZ decision.

TomOnBoard

bucketybuck wrote: »

It highlights a problem with our governments approach since the very start, they completely ignored the human element in all this.

The young people of this country have been treated disgracefully in this past year, they had everything taken away from them while never being treated as anything more than collateral damage. Their jobs, their education and their chances all taken away and then told to stop whining and "hold firm".

Now they are being told to take a vaccine that possibly could kill them to protect against a virus that doesn't hurt them, all to protect people that did nothing for them. And we wonder why they may have stopped giving a damn?

I'm not young and I'll have my vaccine in the next few weeks, but I can completely see how extremely poor messaging and communication this past year has led to a situation where a lot of people may no longer care how selfish they are or are not.

The people who may "no longer care how selfish they are or not" can't blame the gubbermint actions or messaging on Covid for making them selfish as you suggest. I have not seen a single case in my own circle of young people of said 'selfishness' beyond the normal attitudes that people had pre-Covid. Rather, I have seen huge evidence in that circle, of concern for their Grannies, Parents, Neighbours that is born out of fear of losing them to Covid. Granted, as is likely in youth, some precautions slip, particularly when peer- pressure is involved, but I lay that at the proclivities of youth rather than a change of attitude to one of selfishness.

We all need to keep in mind that all this upheaval results from a runaway pathogen rather than from Government action. The whole thing is mind-blowing in terms of its potential as understood a year ago, and I believe we have navigated as best we can through the white water rapids thar are Covid- we have navigated as well or better than many other countries, and have focused on saving lives above all else. I think that, as a nation, we ought to be proud of that!

When history comes to be written, Ireland will be seen to have done its best to protect life and limb in dreadfully uncertain times, and we ought to take some pride from that.

SusanC10

https://reut.rs/3abFpDN

"The EU Commission has decided not to renew COVID-19 vaccine contracts next year with companies such as Astrazeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J), Italian daily La Stampa reported on Wednesday citing a source from the Italian Health Ministry."

Micky 32

ACitizenErased wrote: »

In good vaccine news:
https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1382148098743529479?s=20

Hilarious, the pro lockdown merchants getting their cage’s rattled banging on their keyboards in response to the tweet. Maybe they have been listening to Claire Byrne’ s lurve chats with Mc Conkey too much on the radio. :pac:

lbj666

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The sample size is 6.8 million, more than enough to extrapolate from, so yes we do know.

Unfortunately authorities cant be as dismissive,

If there is 6.8 m dose given, given the time for the side effect appear of up to 13 days and a lag in reporting, the incidence is 6 cases out (with possibly more cases to filter in) what was administered a few weeks ago. I dont know how much that was but do know that J&Js ramp up in the US got going just recently.

In truth its going to take a few weeks for a clearer picture.

odyssey06

SusanC10 wrote: »

https://reut.rs/3abFpDN

"The EU Commission has decided not to renew COVID-19 vaccine contracts next year with companies such as Astrazeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J), Italian daily La Stampa reported on Wednesday citing a source from the Italian Health Ministry."

And the Pfizer price is 60% higher in the new contract.

Miike

SusanC10 wrote: »

https://reut.rs/3abFpDN

"The EU Commission has decided not to renew COVID-19 vaccine contracts next year with companies such as Astrazeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J), Italian daily La Stampa reported on Wednesday citing a source from the Italian Health Ministry."

I didn't see this coming :eek:

Economics101

Different European countries have implemented different cut-off points for the AZ vaccine: 30, 40, 50 and 60. Surely they can't all be right: and arguably out of the 4 are wrong, although the cut-off age may depend on the prevalence of the disease.

Also, it would appear that the clotting risk is much greater for women than for men. If for men the risk is < then 1 per million, then is there a case for confining the age-restriction to women? It need not need to a significant delay for women, just a re-juggling of the queues in the larger mass-vaccination centres. Or are we traumatised at being accused of gender discrimination?

funnydoggy

Curious to know the HSE's new rollout plan.

Makes me wonder if it'll go beyond adjusting for the AZ vaccine recipients. Will they introduce something radical altogether :pac:

namloc1980

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The sample size is 6.8 million, more than enough to extrapolate from, so yes we do know.

J&J has only been administered for the last 5 weeks in the USA. You can't be definitive based on 5 weeks of data.

Turtwig

Economics101 wrote: »

Different European countries have implemented different cut-off points for the AZ vaccine: 30, 40, 50 and 60. Surely they can't all be right: and arguably out of the 4 are wrong, although the cut-off age may depend on the prevalence of the disease.

Different countries have different disease incidence profiles, population demographics and alternative vaccines availability. This means that even if all of them calculate the age cut off thresholds the exact same way - and I doubt they do - the results will be markedly different.
That's why the age restrictions are so variable. The principles used to arrive at them are I expect broadly similar.

TanookiMario

You could almost just laugh at the whole sorry situation.

A few months ago we were battering "anti-vaxxers" from pillar to post.

Now we are just casually talking about which vaccine is the least dangerous to which demographic groups.

Your mad next door neighbour is an idiot for not trusting vaccines meanwhile the government is wanting to halt the use of certain vaccines and that's just fine.

So now we are in a position where we are being told its either take your risk with the virus or the vaccine but the vaccine is less dangerous so bet on that. LOL.

I think I'd rather just hold off and wait until I can just get Pfizer. Clearly something is not going right with the other options.

Economics101

Originally posted by Turtwig: Different countries have different disease incidence profiles, population demographics and alternative vaccines availability. This means that even if all of them calculate the age cut off thresholds the exact same way - and I doubt they do - the results will be markedly different.
That's why the age restrictions are so variable. The principles used to arrive at them are I expect broadly similar.

Fully agreed. But why are we not told exactly how why our authoritarian medical rulers arrived at 60 as the cut-off age for AZ? Totally in line with the Irish public administration's mushroom theory of policy-making,

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The FDA is using 6 in 6.8 to make decisions.

They aren't. There will be some cases in the numerator under investigation for the reason Turtwig outlined. It wont be many

TomOnBoard

ACitizenErased wrote: »

In good vaccine news:
https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1382148098743529479?s=20

We know that vaccines work, but this tweet is misleading. As posters on that Twitter thread point out, the decline in cases represented in the graph occurred during a period following the implementation of greater lockdown measures in the Spring, coupled with increased vaccine roll-out. So, its not vaccines in isolation that is responsible.

Now that Israel appears to have a very high level of vaccination, it is the graphs from here on out that will be most telling, because as it emerges from lockown, any prevention of future rises in infections will be down to vaccines alone.

Are they giving Astrazeneca to the remaining over 70's who still need a first dose?

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they giving Astrazeneca to the remaining over 70's who still need a first dose?

That's what should happen so to not use up all the mRNA vaccines, but haven't seen that confirmed.

ACitizenErased

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They aren't. There will be some cases in the numerator under investigation for the reason Turtwig outlined. It wont be many

Well that’s the number the FDA are peddling. Not something I made up.

MrStuffins

TanookiMario wrote: »

Your mad next door neighbour is an idiot for not trusting vaccines meanwhile the government is wanting to halt the use of certain vaccines and that's just fine.

Well I don't know about your neighbour, but mine was saying he didn't trust vaccines because a hidden cabal of billionaires, who actually might be lizards in human form, have planned this whole charade by installing 5G antennae all over the world in order to elicit the effects of a virus that doesn't exist, in order to administer to the global population a "vaccine" which will actually be used to suppress the ability for the human race to reproduce.

Slightly different to the Govt's policy of making decisions based on certain rare side-effects.

ddarcy

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's what should happen so to not use up all the mRNA vaccines, but haven't seen that confirmed.

Officially they are not mixing vaccines. So if you are over 70 , the second jab will be consistent with the first jab. If they haven’t started yet, then yes AZ should be given, but I think AZ is only going to be used on 60-69, so not on over 70’s yet.

afatbollix

No idea if this has been posted as can't be arsed looking at the same thing over and over saying that vaccines are ****e since this new thread started.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/how-uk-doctor-marie-scully-blood-clotting-link-astrazeneca-covid-jab-university-college-london-hospital

They have found a way of finding out what the problem is with the cloting. They have a test to detect it already and have a way of treating it if detected early.

Basically, old-school treatments that were the norm were what was killing these people. The treatments caused more problems than solved. They even have a worldwide what's app group to talk about it and treatments.

Science at work, This took weeks to sort instead of years.

is_that_so

Miike wrote: »

I didn't see this coming :eek:

For AZ, absolutely! We'll have CureVac and Novavax and maybe others. There's also no reason to assume we'll need a whole population programme again and you may find countries more inclined to do individual deals with the EU purchases a smaller proportion.

Turtwig

I can understand EU not renewing AZ because of their persistent unreliable delivery issues. The J & J one is a tad surprising.

lbj666

bucketybuck wrote: »

It highlights a problem with our governments approach since the very start, they completely ignored the human element in all this.

The young people of this country have been treated disgracefully in this past year, they had everything taken away from them while never being treated as anything more than collateral damage. Their jobs, their education and their chances all taken away and then told to stop whining and "hold firm".

Now they are being told to take a vaccine that possibly could kill them to protect against a virus that doesn't hurt them, all to protect people that did nothing for them. And we wonder why they may have stopped giving a damn?

I'm not young and I'll have my vaccine in the next few weeks, but I can completely see how extremely poor messaging and communication this past year has led to a situation where a lot of people may no longer care how selfish they are or are not.

I haven't seen anything statistically yet to suggest that the risk of serious illness death from AZ is greater than from Covid in younger cohorts, maybe in circumstances of low exposure but people can forget about that now as society starts to open up, higher incidence levels of the virus will be tolerated in the health service while we are in a transistionary period to herd immunity if it even gets to it.

But lets say for argument the risk of serious illness/death is the same very very rare for either side but still.

Well here your tie breakers

Potentially Being proper sick up for a few weeks
Long covid messing you up for even longer
The terror of not having your sense of taste for a while wondering if it would come back.
Isolating for 2 weeks 10 days (ie having to stay home from the job they havent been able to do for the past 12 months)
Living like a hermit to absolutely avoid any potential for this.

vs a rough 24 hours or
rare side effects such as the dizzys enlarged lymph node, ab pain sweating (all symptoms similar to covid symptoms )

The AZ Vacine or any other , wins on goal difference, goals scored, head to head etc etc. by a very clear margin.

Besides the AZ vacine is not earmarked for younger groups anyway, which provides even more comfort and assurance.

I havent even mentioned the benefits of reducing transmission or the overall goal of ending this bloody thing.

rm212

SusanC10 wrote: »

https://reut.rs/3abFpDN

"The EU Commission has decided not to renew COVID-19 vaccine contracts next year with companies such as Astrazeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J), Italian daily La Stampa reported on Wednesday citing a source from the Italian Health Ministry."

This kind of stuff constantly coming out makes the public confidence in the vaccines (particularly AZ and J&J) drop, second by second almost at this stage. It is 100% clear now that Pfizer and Moderna are considered by health professionals (EMA, FDA etc) to be the best, most effective and most safe vaccines by far. The EU should really have made larger optional orders with all vaccine manufacturers, so that we could just pick up the best couple and decline the rest when the results came out. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose

RavenBea17b

afatbollix wrote: »

No idea if this has been posted as can't be arsed looking at the same thing over and over saying that vaccines are ****e since this new thread started.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/how-uk-doctor-marie-scully-blood-clotting-link-astrazeneca-covid-jab-university-college-london-hospital

They have found a way of finding out what the problem is with the cloting. They have a test to detect it already and have a way of treating it if detected early.

Basically, old-school treatments that were the norm were what was killing these people. The treatments caused more problems than solved. They even have a worldwide what's app group to talk about it and treatments.

Science at work, This took weeks to sort instead of years.

Wow, so maybe an ibuprofen/paracetamol as suggested about headaches is indeed a way forward. They suggest paracetamol for headaches at the vaccine centres.

Interesting read.

rm212

Turtwig wrote: »

I can understand EU not renewing AZ because of their persistent unreliable delivery issues. The J & J one is a tad surprising.

It makes sense to me? The EU is comprised of first world countries who can afford whatever treatment they deem best. You have two vaccines that have a risk, albeit very low, of causing dangerous/lethal blood clots in the brain. You have two mRNA vaccines (with higher efficacy rates) that have not been linked to this side effect, nor any lethal side effects. Regardless of how unlikely these side effects are, no link is still better than any link. Not to mention the issue with boosters being easy for mRNA but hard for adenoviral vectors.

Makes sense to make larger orders with the better vaccines, once we're through the first vaccination of everyone and supply isn't so much of an issue anymore.

Russman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Huge news, portal opening tomorrow.

I have to say I agree with the step by step for sign up, should ensure the system isn't overloaded each day.

So tomorrow Thursday aged 69, Friday 68 and so on.

Vaccinations from next week so we should see AZ being rolled out in big numbers again next week

https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1382239419135066115?s=19

That really is super news.
I now have to talk my 69 year old mother into taking the leap !!

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Well that’s the number the FDA are peddling. Not something I made up.

They aren't peddling anything. 6 confirmed cases out of 6.8million doses so far. They were specifically asked were there cases under investigation and didn't rule it out.