Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

lastusername

Reality check - questioning the safety and potential long term effect of vaccines or any medication does not make you "anti-vax". That's a lazy, catch-all put down by people who are too comfortable with just going along with the narrative and often lack the ability to think for themselves (imo).


You CAN actually ask questions of something while not being against it. Personally I am planning to take one but also want to ask questions of something that is NEW and not been tested in the wild before.

civdef

There's literally tonnes of good info on how the vaccines work out there on the web on reputable sources, all well referenced. You can find it pitched at all sorts of levels of scientific knowledge.

I wouldn't go expecting someone here to take the time to explain in detail how messenger RNA vaccines works, for example, but this is the first link that popped up on a google search https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

lastusername

civdef wrote: »

There's literally tonnes of good info on how the vaccines work out there on the web on reputable sources, all well referenced. You can find it pitched at all sorts of levels of scientific knowledge.

I wouldn't go expecting someone here to take the time to explain in detail how messenger RNA vaccines works, for example, but this is the first link that popped up on a google search https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

Agreed! I do know how they work alright, it's relatively simple or at least the overview of it is. I also have heard from a reputable source that any adverse effects of vaccines have presented themselves within six weeks - that's across the history of vaccines. That's why the CDC, etc asked for eight weeks of data before they approved them on an emergency basis.


I did ask earlier on the thread about how the mRNA is broken down and some other points. I wasn't expecting a solid reply but will do some more research on this.

Got my AZ yesterday at Aviva. 2 hours standing in queue, give the endurance test, was quite unwell by the time I got into the vaccine room. However they agreed to vaccinate me as they understood I have merely be one dehydrated from ileostomy issue. No reaction until this evening, developed a fever that peaked at 103.2 but thankfully not too much of a headache and no nausea as reported by some others.

civdef

lastusername wrote: »

Agreed! I do know how they work alright, it's relatively simple or at least the overview of it is. I also have heard from a reputable source that any adverse effects of vaccines have presented themselves within six weeks - that's across the history of vaccines. That's why the CDC, etc asked for eight weeks of data before they approved them on an emergency basis.


I did ask earlier on the thread about how the mRNA is broken down and some other points. I wasn't expecting a solid reply but will do some more research on this.

This might be a good starting point https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140320131139.htm#:~:text=Histone%20mRNA%20degradation%20begins%20when,to%20begin%20degrading%20the%20mRNA.

Panrich

podgeandrodge wrote: »

So I know two 58 year olds, that both got their texts today, having registered whatever day the 58 yr old day was.

One northside, one southside, 1 Aviva Pfizer, 1 Helix Pfizer, both getting jab on Friday.

Dublin seems to be well ahead of everywhere else. Be interesting to see when us oldies out in the backwaters get called up.

24 hours after AZ vaccine, some side effects started to kick in and sent me to bed, but nothing too drastic. Checked my temperature and it peaked at 103.2, but no nausea and minimal headache. Just a bit of shivering and shaking and a sore arm, telling me my immune system has happily recognised the makings of Covid-19 virus

giveitholly

Any idea how much of the adult population in the UK have had their first jab?

lastusername

lastusername wrote: »

Agreed! I do know how they work alright, it's relatively simple or at least the overview of it is. I also have heard from a reputable source that any adverse effects of vaccines have presented themselves within six weeks - that's across the history of vaccines. That's why the CDC, etc asked for eight weeks of data before they approved them on an emergency basis.


I did ask earlier on the thread about how the mRNA is broken down and some other points. I wasn't expecting a solid reply but will do some more research on this.

Have you asked the question as to why the special storage requirements?

The decay of mrna has been well studied
http://book.bionumbers.org/how-fast-do-rnas-and-proteins-degrade/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371357/

The biological environment does not tend to tolerate stray complex organic molecules hanging around for an extended period of time

ShineOn7

giveitholly wrote: »

Any idea how much of the adult population in the UK have had their first jab?

As of 4 days ago

more than 35 million people have had a first vaccine dose and over 16 million have had a second

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

eoinbn

Deleted User wrote: »

Got my AZ yesterday at Aviva. 2 hours standing in queue, give the endurance test, was quite unwell by the time I got into the vaccine room. However they agreed to vaccinate me as they understood I have merely be one dehydrated from ileostomy issue. No reaction until this evening, developed a fever that peaked at 103.2 but thankfully not too much of a headache and no nausea as reported by some others.

Nuts. They need to start spot checking people in the queues. If you are more than 10 minutes early cancel their appointment and send them home.

ShineOn7

astrofool

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I was asking rhetorically

If they're in Cohort 7 they're possibly getting a vaccination not suited to their condition if they're waved off to the HSE portal by GPs

There's no better vaccine for any condition than the vaccine you can avail of first. There doesn't seem to be any real world difference between all the approved vaccines at preventing severe COVID and death with the protection from the adenovirus vector vaccines kicking in the quickest (but obviously with the longest gap to booster).

Cohort 7 seems to be on the wind down with age groups handling most of the heavy lifting.

ixoy

Strazdas wrote: »

At the pace they are going at the moment, it could easily before the end of this month. Wouldn't be a surprise if they throw open the portal for you early next week.

Huh - so that vaccine calculator that appeared in in January wasn't accurate?! :eek::pac:

mioniqa

If you don’t take into consideration second doses, it would take 2.4 weeks to get through the 50-59 age group (calculations from CSO). So maybe 3 weeks to get through them (if you vaguely estimate for second doses) which means they should start the 40-49s about the 28th with maybe the portal opening for them at the end of next week.

That’s my very crude guess anyway.

secman

My younger brother aged 57 registered on Sat last and his appointment is for Thursday evening at the Aviva, getting the pfizer jab.

civdef

It shouldn't be forgotten how much overlap there is between the groups. An awful lot of the people aged 60-65 who got vaccinated already probably would have been Cohort 7 also.

ShineOn7

astrofool wrote: »

There's no better vaccine for any condition than the vaccine you can avail of first. There doesn't seem to be any real world difference between all the approved vaccines at preventing severe COVID and death with the protection from the adenovirus vector vaccines kicking in the quickest (but obviously with the longest gap to booster).

That's simply not true with Cohort 7

"The best vaccine is the one you're offered" is fast becoming one of the most annoying phrases of the past month

Because with Cohort 7, this isn't the case if it's left to the HSE portal and not GPs

Wolf359f said it best above

The most at risk would be those with certain autoimmune conditions or taking certain immune suppressants. Some would not make or make very little antibodies, so having the highest efficiency or highest antibody response vaccine would be extremely important.

At least going through a GP, they can choose or refer you for the most appropriate vaccine, where the MVC is what's ever on the menu that day.

Janssen's efficiency: 66.3% effective

Pfizer's efficiency: 95% effective

Which do you think Cohort 7 should get?

I know three people in their late 50s/early 60s who got their texts in the last couple of days, and they're all getting Moderna. Kind of surprising given our low stock of that vaccine compared to the others. Might just be a strange coincidence!

JPup

ShineOn7 wrote: »

That's simply not true with Cohort 7

"The best vaccine is the one you're offered" is fast becoming one of the most annoying phrases of the past month

Because with Cohort 7, this isn't the case if it's left to the HSE portal and not GPs

Wolf359f said it best above




Janssen's efficiency: 66.3% effective

Pfizer's efficiency: 95% effective

Which do you think Cohort 7 should get?

No, no, no. You're comparing apples with oranges with those efficacy rates.

They are from different studies of different populations at different times when different variants where doing the rounds. All four vaccines approved for use in Europe have been shown to be similarly (read highly) effective at preventing hospitalisation and death.

Happydays2020

How are they determining whether to send you to the Aviva or the Helix? Is it a north side/south side thing or do they consider distance? Can one seek to change locations?

Happydays2020

JPup wrote: »

No, no, no. You're comparing apples with oranges with those efficacy rates.

They are from different studies of different populations at different times when different variants where doing the rounds. All four vaccines approved for use in Europe have been shown to be similarly (read highly) effective at preventing hospitalisation and death.

Really needs to be some positive messaging around JJ particularly among 20’s and 30’s.

eoinbn

ShineOn7 wrote: »

That's simply not true with Cohort 7

"The best vaccine is the one you're offered" is fast becoming one of the most annoying phrases of the past month

Because with Cohort 7, this isn't the case if it's left to the HSE portal and not GPs

Wolf359f said it best above




Janssen's efficiency: 66.3% effective

Pfizer's efficiency: 95% effective

Which do you think Cohort 7 should get?

For the 1 billionth time - you cannot compare vaccines like that. Just look at the results out of the UK - are hospitals filling up with people that got AZ? 66m people and 4 deaths today. Millions of people protected with 1 dose of AZ.

civdef

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Really needs to be some positive messaging around JJ particularly among 20’s and 30’s.

How's this?


One dose, it probably won't kill you, and then you can go on your holidays.

ShineOn7

JPup wrote: »

No, no, no. You're comparing apples with oranges with those efficacy rates.

They are from different studies of different populations at different times when different variants where doing the rounds. All four vaccines approved for use in Europe have been shown to be similarly (read highly) effective at preventing hospitalisation and death.

I'm genuinely open to correction on this, but even the HSE website gives these figures

Janssen

In clinical trials, the vaccine reduced the risk of people:

• getting COVID-19 by 66%
• being hospitalised with severe COVID-19 by 85%

Pfizer

In clinical trials, the vaccine reduced the risk of people getting COVID-19 by 95%. Results also show that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine works well in adults of any age.

How can 66% (Jansson) not be seen as too low for Cohort 7 versus 95% (Pfizer)?

ShineOn7

eoinbn wrote: »

For the 1 billionth time - you cannot compare vaccines like that. Just look at the results out of the UK - are hospitals filling up with people that got AZ? 66m people and 4 deaths today. Millions of people protected with 1 dose of AZ.

I am specifically talking about Cohort 7 in the examples I gave

Happydays2020

civdef wrote: »

How's this?


One dose, it probably won't kill you, and then you can go on your holidays.

There may be vaccine hesitancy and yes linking the vaccine to the incentive of travel is not a bad outcome.

Wolf359f

eoinbn wrote: »

For the 1 billionth time - you cannot compare vaccines like that. Just look at the results out of the UK - are hospitals filling up with people that got AZ? 66m people and 4 deaths today. Millions of people protected with 1 dose of AZ.

Efficancy means very little to people who are immune compromised if a vaccine will produce a lower than normal antibody response. I believe the south African trial included HIV patients who didn't produce a high immune response, hence why the vaccine would appear less effective as a whole. When it's just producing a lower antibody response in certain people as they are immune compromised.

So it's down to what vaccine produces the highest antibody response or the fastest to reach it etc... It's a medical decision. The online booking system wouldn't have a clue, it was designed for healthy people and the only deciding factor is age related vaccine restrictions.

franciscanpunk

Panrich wrote: »

It’s not about jumping the queue.

The advice against giving AZ to cohort 7 is the problem. There’s no way to distinguish on the portal and people may end up with an unsuitable vaccine for their conditions simply based on age.
It’s no good telling these people to take whatever they’ve been offered while that advice is out there.

It’s causing a lot of anxiety for many many people who are the in the most vulnerable unvaccinated group.

GP actually told a family member DO NOT take AZ, cat 7 need to get Pfizer in the GP office. all good, family member waits and waits doesnt ring every hounding GP as trying to be patient and fair. eventually calls GP who have decided they are now doing 70 plus only as the made a mess of everything and GP tells patient he could never recommend one vaccine over the other and to use the portal or contact HSE or go anywhere else i dont care.

If they had just said from day 1 we arent doing cohort 7 and never said anything about vaccine types the patient would just have organised it himself.

GP here was actually a hinderence to the process!

Panrich

Is anyone else having issues getting onto the hse vaccine portal?

Edit: Just saw it's down for maintenance.