Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Pandiculation

Stheno wrote: »

Wow. that's amazing.

I always find those sort of comparators useful to give perspective.

I know we have a tendency to be down in the dumps about this, particularly based on the rather lacklustre performance in the early months of the rollout, but it seems the Irish and EU rollout is now going at a fairly hectic pace.

You can blame most of that on just technical issues with supply (AstraZeneca) and needing to expand bandwidth of production (Pfizer/BioNTech), who have really come through in a big way with production capacity.

We're also not at all showing signs of vaccine scepticism here so it should be a case of Ireland getting to population immunity before the end of the summer, which would be quite an achievement.

Pandiculation

Stheno wrote: »

Wow. that's amazing.

I always find those sort of comparators useful to give perspective.

It's quite easy to lose perspective on it, particularly when you're getting figures from the US or Germany, which have very large population scales. It really needs to be multiplied up on the news to give us a 'that could be X per day scaled up to the UK, Germany the US pop' etc as I think we are really view things not-to-scale.

There has been a lot of use of raw number totals in reporting this pandemic in general which are usually a useless basis for making comparisons.

It should be fairly simple for RTE, Virgin, or those giving press briefings to just do a quick population adjustment factor to give people a sense of where we are really at.

JTMan

CDC advisers have now approved Pfizer-BioNTech for 12-15 year olds. (FDA approval was earlier this week).

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1392558118295441408

expectationlost

Pandiculation wrote: »

Headline:

It may be possible to offer vaccine to everyone who wants one by end of June – Varadkar

"TÁNAISTE Leo Varadkar has said it may be possible that everyone who wants a vaccine could be offered one by the end of June.

Mr Varadkar told the Fine Gael parliamentary party that given evidence from other countries that between 10pc and 15pc of people decline the vaccine it was possible that everyone who wants a vaccine could be offered one by the end of June.

However, he added that it was too soon to promise that at this stage."

IT said he said they could be offered an appointment for a vaccine, not a vaccine https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/everyone-who-wants-a-covid-19-vaccine-appointment-could-be-offered-one-by-end-of-june-says-varadkar-1.4563349


as had been previously promised

revelman

I’m guessing I’m not the only person who is literally raring to go? How I’d love if they turned around and opened up registration to everyone. I’d drive to Donegal in the middle of the night for a vaccine if I had to (I’m in Cork btw so that is a long way....)

ACitizenErased

Mother just got her appointment. 55 y/o for Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Tuesday. Pfizer vaccine. Delighted.

Charles Babbage

Stheno wrote: »

Wow. that's amazing.

I always find those sort of comparators useful to give perspective.

The US vaccination rate has now declined quite a bit, owing to people not coming forward in some states.



Wnhat everyone is expected to get the vaccine.

Van.Bosch

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Mother just got her appointment. 55 y/o for Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Tuesday. Pfizer vaccine. Delighted.

That’s great.

I reckon we might see the portal opening sooner than I expected for 45-49. Maybe even early next week if they are doing mid 50’s already.

Micky 32

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The US vaccination rate has now declined quite a bit, owing to people not coming forward in some states.



Wnhat everyone is expected to get the vaccine.

Not great news for heard immunity.

revelman

Van.Bosch wrote: »

That’s great.

I reckon we might see the portal opening sooner than I expected for 45-49. Maybe even early next week if they are doing mid 50’s already.

I was always guessing that registration might open next Wednesday/Thursday, a week after they open registration for those aged 50. But apparently NIAC are going to get back to the government tonight or tomorrow morning with advice on vaccines for the under 50s so it could be that we might hear sooner than that.

Cole

According to the HSE's info on the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.

In clinical trials, the vaccine reduced the risk of people:

• getting COVID-19 by 66%
• being hospitalised with severe COVID-19 by 85%

I guess it's still pretty high, but my understanding was that all the vaccines offer 100% protection against severe covid-19. That's what I've often heard when experts counter the scepticism over the different efficacy figures.

Am I missing something here?

revelman

Cole wrote: »

According to the HSE's info on the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.

In clinical trials, the vaccine reduced the risk of people:

• getting COVID-19 by 66%
• being hospitalised with severe COVID-19 by 85%

I guess it's still pretty high, but my understanding was that all the vaccines offer 100% protection against severe covid-19. That's what I've often heard when experts counter the scepticism over the different efficacy figures.

Am I missing something here?

You might find this website helpful. I know I did:

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/03/420071/how-effective-johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-heres-what-you-should-know

In the J&J trial, the placebo group had 16 hospitalizations and seven deaths from COVID-19, whereas the vaccine group had none, which means the vaccine provided 100 percent efficacy against hospitalizations and deaths.

For severe disease, which includes people who were sick enough with COVID-19 to require medical intervention but recovered without hospitalization, the efficacy was about 85 percent across the board in Brazil, South Africa and the U.S.

titan18

Finally got an appointment (group 7) for Saturday week.

Anyone know if an expired passport counts as valid id for this, since I haven't been able to get a renewed one due to the passport office being closed/not functioning

astrofool

Cole wrote: »

According to the HSE's info on the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.

In clinical trials, the vaccine reduced the risk of people:

• getting COVID-19 by 66%
• being hospitalised with severe COVID-19 by 85%

I guess it's still pretty high, but my understanding was that all the vaccines offer 100% protection against severe covid-19. That's what I've often heard when experts counter the scepticism over the different efficacy figures.

Am I missing something here?

They think most of the difference from earlier vaccine trials was down to the changes in prevailing strains of the virus rather than the vaccine being less effective (which makes sense as it's the same spike protein causing antibodies to be generated), as noted, it's 100% effective at preventing death which is really the only result that matters.

The reason mRNA is being invested in vs. adenovirus vector vaccines is the speed at which they can be adapted and brought to market (once manufacturing supply ramps up) not because they are inherently better at being a vaccine (but because of their adaptability they can move with the strains faster for diseases like flu which prevents death, imagine the yearly flu vaccine being developed weeks ahead of inoculation instead of months like they currently do).

Russman

revelman wrote: »

I was always guessing that registration might open next Wednesday/Thursday, a week after they open registration for those aged 50. But apparently NIAC are going to get back to the government tonight or tomorrow morning with advice on vaccines for the under 50s so it could be that we might hear sooner than that.

I wonder could there be a curveball in the works from NIAC ? I mean what’s the point in deliberating for so long ? They’ve essentially been told what to approve, so I don’t really get the week long delay.

Russman

astrofool wrote: »

They think most of the difference from earlier vaccine trials was down to the changes in prevailing strains of the virus rather than the vaccine being less effective (which makes sense as it's the same spike protein causing antibodies to be generated), as noted, it's 100% effective at preventing death which is really the only result that matters.

The reason mRNA is being invested in vs. adenovirus vector vaccines is the speed at which they can be adapted and brought to market (once manufacturing supply ramps up) not because they are inherently better at being a vaccine (but because of their adaptability they can move with the strains faster for diseases like flu which prevents death, imagine the yearly flu vaccine being developed weeks ahead of inoculation instead of months like they currently do).

That’s always been something that’s confused me with all this, as a lay person with no real medical knowledge. If the difference between the viral vector and mRNA vaccines is just the way they get the body to produce the same spike protein, why is there such a difference in efficacy rates seen ?

Are we saying that it’s possible, maybe even probable, that had, say, the J&J trial been run alongside Pfizer at the same time and in the same populations and locations, we might have seen similar results to each other ?

corkonion

titan18 wrote: »

Finally got an appointment (group 7) for Saturday week.

Anyone know if an expired passport counts as valid id for this, since I haven't been able to get a renewed one due to the passport office being closed/not functioning

Passport office is processing online renewals quite quickly, I applied for mine about a month ago and had it in about 2 weeks.

Polar101

titan18 wrote: »

Anyone know if an expired passport counts as valid id for this, since I haven't been able to get a renewed one due to the passport office being closed/not functioning

I don't see why not, you're not trying to travel anywhere - just to prove your identity. I doubt they'd be interested in the expiry date.

freshpopcorn

Does anybody know can the send people from the same area to different Vaccine clinics originally people from my area were being called to Mallow but now some are after getting an appointment for one of the one's in Cork City.

bodhrandude

titan18 wrote: »

Finally got an appointment (group 7) for Saturday week.

Anyone know if an expired passport counts as valid id for this, since I haven't been able to get a renewed one due to the passport office being closed/not functioning

Do you have a Public Service card, they would usually be suffice for an ID for vaccination anyway or a driving licence, but I wouldn't recommend these for airports.

titan18

bodhrandude wrote: »

Do you have a Public Service card, they would usually be suffice for an ID for vaccination anyway or a driving licence, but I wouldn't recommend these for airports.

I have an old student card I guess or my work id, but neither of those two. I'm hoping the passport will work as I doubt I'll get a new one by then (and need to get a haircut before I take a passport photo anyway )

Pandiculation

The Photo ID requirement's a bit much, given you'll have a certain % who may not have any form of photo ID and there's no compulsory photo ID in Ireland. So, while a lot of people will have either a passport, driving licence or public service card, not everyone necessarily does.

If they were being reasonable, showing them the SMS and a printout of your email and so on should really suffice for this, or any ID e.g. your bank card or something.

It's like as if we've a national ID card or something. I'd say there'll be a big issue if you start getting stories of people turned away who had valid appointments.

I mean, if you think about it. I've gone for flu jabs in Boots and they were just booked online and they didn't have a clue who I was when I came in other than I showed up and knew I had an appointment. Why is this any different?

nibtrix

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Does anybody know can the send people from the same area to different Vaccine clinics originally people from my area were being called to Mallow but now some are after getting an appointment for one of the one's in Cork City.

Yes they can do if there is more availability in the other centre. I’ve heard of quite a few people from Greystones that were sent to the Aviva even after the Greystones MVC was open, as the Aviva centre was much further ahead in the ages for their local area. Bit of a pain having to trek an hour to the centre when you could walk to the nearby one, but whatever gets more people vaccinated faster!

There have been several mentions on this thread that the Cork centres are flying through the 50s already so they must have capacity to take people from other areas.

JPup

Russman wrote: »

That’s always been something that’s confused me with all this, as a lay person with no real medical knowledge. If the difference between the viral vector and mRNA vaccines is just the way they get the body to produce the same spike protein, why is there such a difference in efficacy rates seen ?

Are we saying that it’s possible, maybe even probable, that had, say, the J&J trial been run alongside Pfizer at the same time and in the same populations and locations, we might have seen similar results to each other ?

Yes, that is my understanding. Or at least that the observed efficacy rates would have been closer had the trials been run side-by-side in the same population.

Cole

Cole wrote: »

According to the HSE's info on the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.

In clinical trials, the vaccine reduced the risk of people:

• getting COVID-19 by 66%
• being hospitalised with severe COVID-19 by 85%

I guess it's still pretty high, but my understanding was that all the vaccines offer 100% protection against severe covid-19. That's what I've often heard when experts counter the scepticism over the different efficacy figures.

Am I missing something here?

Those figures aren't quite accurate. The trials showed 85% efficacy against severe disease WITHOUT hospitilization. Efficacy against severe disease leading to hospitalization and/or death was 100%.

Stark

Delivery update for last week: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c3693-update-on-covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-12-may-2021/

I thought there was supposed to be a second big shipment of Astrazenaca after the 175k week 17 shipment but that's not reflected there. Means we're going to be using Pfizer supplies on 50-69 year olds this week if that's the case.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

Delivery update for last week: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c3693-update-on-covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-12-may-2021/

I thought there was supposed to be a second big shipment of Astrazenaca after the 175k week 17 shipment but that's not reflected there. Means we're going to be using Pfizer supplies on 50-69 year olds this week if that's the case.

Texts for parc uí caoimh today are saying pfizer for appointments monday

Stark

Great, even fewer people to give AZ and J&J to when they do arrive.

astrofool

Russman wrote: »

That’s always been something that’s confused me with all this, as a lay person with no real medical knowledge. If the difference between the viral vector and mRNA vaccines is just the way they get the body to produce the same spike protein, why is there such a difference in efficacy rates seen ?

Are we saying that it’s possible, maybe even probable, that had, say, the J&J trial been run alongside Pfizer at the same time and in the same populations and locations, we might have seen similar results to each other ?

Yes, the real world results seem to be bearing this out, there was a study on Scotland about 6 weeks ago which had a mix of AZ and Pfizer and no real world difference was found.

At trial time one or two people getting sick or not, or a slightly different group of people can sway the results (as different strains being dominant) or adjust the confidence intervals, that and the need to put news into clickable chunks (95%!) leads to misunderstanding of what the results mean. Doctors without an immunology background also fall foul of this. Important thing is that those who do understand this recommend all the vaccines equally with the only differentiating factor being the very low risk for CVST, which also means, especially for cohort 4 and 7, that the vaccine they get sooner is the better one, if their GP isn't doing it, sign up online and get to an MVC and/or change to a GP that is doing it.

eoinbn

Russman wrote: »

That’s always been something that’s confused me with all this, as a lay person with no real medical knowledge. If the difference between the viral vector and mRNA vaccines is just the way they get the body to produce the same spike protein, why is there such a difference in efficacy rates seen ?

Are we saying that it’s possible, maybe even probable, that had, say, the J&J trial been run alongside Pfizer at the same time and in the same populations and locations, we might have seen similar results to each other ?

The first dose of AZ seems to be on par with Pfizer, maybe even better. The second is where Pfizer pulls ahead. Given than the delivery mechanism for AZ is a virus it is possible that an immune response against the vector has developed which reduces the effectiveness of the second and subsequent doses.
That is probably why the UK were so quick to start mixing vaccines. They probably knew that giving a third shot of AZ might not be that effective. AZ could possibly need a new virus vector which could mean full retrials.